Duke Fall Housing Announcement

[uh_no]

What % of Duke's student body are international students, cause they are not allowed into the states, right?

I have a rising senior and she is pretty much already planning to take a gap year - next year.

Still, I think Duke will be fine - brand, endowment, demand. Many schools though will struggle immensely, and quite a few will almost immediately be on the brink of closing this year, between gap years and the lack of full boat paying international students. And I bet that the US families that are paying full boat have a higher probability of taking a gap year. Who wants to spend 75K for an online experience?

Personally, I think we will be looking back 2-3 years from now and higher education will look materially different. It was already under massive stress with the inflation and the crushing student debt. Covid will almost surely be a catalyst for major change.

The bigger issue for duke will be handling the bubble of students coming back from a gap year.

[throatybeard]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

Are you suggesting a "gap year" spent in your parents' basement isn't very valuable? Particularly when you likely just did that for the previous six months?

[freshmanjs]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

This is the debate I've been having with my daughter. She is an incoming Duke Freshman. I have been suggesting gap year, as I think the 4 year Duke experience will be much better starting next Fall instead of this Fall. She is against the gap year because she doesn't want to waste a year sitting at home. She has valid points. So far, she's still planning to attend Duke this year in whatever form that takes. It's a tough decision to make, especially because there is so much uncertainty about what either option will really be like.

[arnie]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

A little harsh, but generally accurate.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is the debate I've been having with my daughter. She is an incoming Duke Freshman. I have been suggesting gap year, as I think the 4 year Duke experience will be much better starting next Fall instead of this Fall. She is against the gap year because she doesn't want to waste a year sitting at home. She has valid points. So far, she's still planning to attend Duke this year in whatever form that takes. It's a tough decision to make, especially because there is so much uncertainty about what either option will really be like.

I understand many parents of college students are quite hesitant to pay tuition for "virtual classes," due to a perceived lesser value.

[freshmanjs]

I understand many parents of college students are quite hesitant to pay tuition for "virtual classes," due to a perceived lesser value.

Yeah, that's an issue too. Although I've told her she can go if she wants. I'm trying not to make it about money in her case. These kids will learn a lot about resilience and flexibility, so that's a benefit. It's sad to hear her already saying things like "if I only lose 1 semester, that's pretty good." (recognizing this is a first world problem).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And to further complicate things, Miami Marlin baseball players have tested positive for Covid-19 after playing in Philly over the weekend. Miami's home game against Baltimore, scheduled for Miami today, has been cancelled, as has the Yankees game in Philly. It remains to be seen whether non-bubble sports can be safely conducted.
https://www.mlb.com/yankees/news/mar...lies-postponed

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

This is what led to my suggestion above about students who want to do gap years being au peres - go to a different part of the country and live with a family for a year, taking care of their kids, since it is unclear if the usual international kids who do it can get into the country. I don't think there are many roles like this available, but if you are remotely interested in and capable of taking care of a child (which is a huge if for most 18 year olds), it isn't the worst idea.

Similarly, in households with two working parents, with remote learning at least some of the time and no after school activities/childcare, there will be a huge demand for helpers. We have a part-time college student whose normal job was primarily to take my kids to activities after school but we have already let her know that this fall we will likely be asking her to help our 1st grader with school work and supplement school work as necessary.

Not to get too political because I'm sure there are those who think this is governmental over-reach, but it would also be a great time for some kind of domestic service corps. There are plenty of basic infrastructure projects that need to get done in this country. Also, how about some of them work as contact tracers?

Bottom line is that I agree that many of the kids taking gap years will sit around doing nothing and there likely aren't roles for all of them, but if they are creative, many can find something to do at least part time.

[sagegrouse]

The bigger issue for duke will be handling the bubble of students coming back from a gap year.

There is history in universities doing this, although memories are likely faded since the surge of students following the end of WW II. About five years ago I spoke with a student in the Class of 1950 at Harvard. He was a local student -- miraculously admitted, but a different story. There was really no room on campus for anyone, even areas for the "townies" to congregate. So Harvard rented a townhouse as a sort of social hall. I can't remember if it provided meals or not, but it was a regular gathering place.

Duke would need to pin down off-campus housing for students as well as meet the needs of such students when actually on campus.

But back to the prior story. What was memorable to me was that, my friend said, there were ongoing bull sessions in the townhouse. By far the two most active participants were Henry Kissinger and future Secy. of Defense James Schlesinger, both Class of 1950.

[uh_no]

There is history in universities doing this, although memories are likely faded since the surge of students following the end of WW II. About five years ago I spoke with a student in the Class of 1950 at Harvard. He was a local student -- miraculously admitted, but a different story. There was really no room on campus for anyone, even areas for the "townies" to congregate. So Harvard rented a townhouse as a sort of social hall. I can't remember if it provided meals or not, but it was a regular gathering place.

Duke would need to pin down off-campus housing for students as well as meet the needs of such students when actually on campus.

But back to the prior story. What was memorable to me was that, my friend said, there were ongoing bull sessions in the townhouse. By far the two most active participants were Henry Kissinger and future Secy. of Defense James Schlesinger, both Class of 1950.

Well, they bought another hotel last week, and I think some of the new apartments that bought out Sam's.

The class sizes are more of a bigger issue. The labs that people are undoubtedly putting off since they can't actually do them will now have huge influx when they are offered. CS classes are already at ridiculous sizes. They can always say "too bad no housing for you."

[duke79]

Like, what are all these kids on gap years actually going to do during 2020-21? Visit countries that won't admit Americans? Fill internships at companies that are about to lay off a third of their workforce when the stimulus runs out? Attend closed theaters and closed bars? Do research in closed libraries? Take part time jobs in restaurants/coffee shops that no longer exist? Drive Uber/Lyft for absent tourists? Volunteer for political campaigns that need much smaller staffs since they're mostly online? Other forms of volunteerism that will drastically raise their COVID exposure?

Very few of the activities people say that gap years are for will be available. Smoking weed and playing video games seems more likely.

LOL, very funny but you may very well be correct! It's going to be a tough decision for a lot of kids who are scheduled to be starting college this Fall (and their parents). Fortunately, I'm not in that position and I'm not sure what I would advise a child of mine to do under the circumstances. I can see arguments for either starting college OR taking the gap year.

Of course, as I've mentioned previously, it would not surprise me at all if the "on campus" experiment turns out to be a failure. I just don't see any way that the colleges or universities are going to prevent the virus from coming on to campus at some point and then spreading among students, faculty, staff, coaches, etc. Once that happens and people start becoming sick (and even young, healthy people can get quite sick), the colleges will then be forced to shut down all on campus classes and activities. I hope I'm wrong but I'd put the odds at better than 50/50 that this will happen.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

LOL, very funny but you may very well be correct! It's going to be a tough decision for a lot of kids who are scheduled to be starting college this Fall (and their parents). Fortunately, I'm not in that position and I'm not sure what I would advise a child of mine to do under the circumstances. I can see arguments for either starting college OR taking the gap year.

Of course, as I've mentioned previously, it would not surprise me at all if the "on campus" experiment turns out to be a failure. I just don't see any way that the colleges or universities are going to prevent the virus from coming on to campus at some point and then spreading among students, faculty, staff, coaches, etc. Once that happens and people start becoming sick (and even young, healthy people can get quite sick), the colleges will then be forced to shut down all on campus classes and activities. I hope I'm wrong but I'd put the odds at better than 50/50 that this will happen.

Agreed one hundred percent. Schools are preparing for optimistic results out of necessity, but reality will be harsh.

[duke79]

There is history in universities doing this, although memories are likely faded since the surge of students following the end of WW II. About five years ago I spoke with a student in the Class of 1950 at Harvard. He was a local student -- miraculously admitted, but a different story. There was really no room on campus for anyone, even areas for the "townies" to congregate. So Harvard rented a townhouse as a sort of social hall. I can't remember if it provided meals or not, but it was a regular gathering place.

Duke would need to pin down off-campus housing for students as well as meet the needs of such students when actually on campus.

But back to the prior story. What was memorable to me was that, my friend said, there were ongoing bull sessions in the townhouse. By far the two most active participants were Henry Kissinger and future Secy. of Defense James Schlesinger, both Class of 1950.

This scenario happened to my father. He was originally in the class of 1944 at Duke but got called into the navy at the end of 1943 (when the war on both fronts was going full blast and the military services needed all the bodies that they could get). I think he had already finished the first semester of his senior year but then had to go off to fight in the Pacific (after an accelerated OCS at Northwestern in Chicago). My mother stayed at Duke to graduate in the Spring of 1944 and then they got married (in June of 1944). Then, when the war ended, my father had to come back to Duke to finish his last semester (and he told me he was quite angry with Duke because many colleges automatically granted diplomas to those individuals who served in the military and who had only one semester or so to complete but Duke wouldn't do that at the time). Needless to say, there was a huge influx of returning service people and new students, so there was little available living space on campus or in Durham and classes were overly crowded. My mother and father (and my older brother) had to live out at Camp Buttner (now a federal prison, I believe).

[duke79]

Re my post above about the difficulty of preventing the spread of the virus on a college campus:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ment-challenge

[SlapTheFloor]

Re my post above about the difficulty of preventing the spread of the virus on a college campus:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ment-challenge

At least the Engineering school will be safe.

[Im4howdy]

Duke is fortunate that demand is so high that people will still line up (from the waiting list) to grab a spot vacated by someone taking a gap year, even if the first year experience is largely in mom and dad's basement.

Some schools are telling kids they can't automatically take a gap year and enter in the Fall of 2021...

Except that it's almost August and I imagine 99.99% of kids on the waiting list have already put deposits down at other schools.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Except that it's almost August and I imagine 99.99% of kids on the waiting list have already put deposits down at other schools.

Yup. I don't know if the schools are still pulling off the wait lists or not - though I totally agree with you, if your dream school was Duke (or some other school) and you have plenty of money and got the call at the last second, you might still make the move.

A friend's kid was accepted as a junior transfer at an Ivy in late May. He is a very bright kid with great grades at his prior school so might have gotten in anyway. But I'm sure that by then the school saw that they were going to have a lot of upper class seats to fill due to unexpected gap years so his odds of getting in increased (the school is need blind but he also didn't need aid, which didn't hurt).

[DukeDevilDeb]

What in the world makes you think that things will be different a year from now? As a faculty member, the quick shift from in person to online classes last spring was the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. My teaching is dependent on establishing rapport with the students both in the large group and individual. I can tell you after teaching last spring and this summer in 2 dimensions, such rapport is impossible over the internet.

The United States should have shut down when this first was seen as a pandemic. We didn't. Duke did... got lots of criticism (e.g., first to say they weren't playing in the ACC Tournament) but ultimately did exactly the right thing. We really wanted to bring all the kids back this fall, but the risk to them (and to the faculty) is just too great.

Don't want to be a pessimist, but I don't think we will have either a football or basketball season. Duke announced the following today: (in response to a question on how student life would be different in fall 2020)

The usual in-person events, meetings and programs will either not take place or will be significantly different in size and format... as of now, intramural and club sports will not be occurring in the fall except for e-sport events...

Please note that in-person public events ... will not be permitted on the Duke campus until further notice. Additionally , in-person events hosted, sponsored or paid for by Duke will not be permitted to take place off campus, either in Durham or elsewhere.

The ACC is expected to determine the status of fall competition soon.

today.duke.edu

[DukieInKansas]

Another option for a gap year - Junior College classes, probably online, in areas totally outside their perceived major. They may find that they really want to try a trade instead of college. You can make a great living as a plumber or in HVAC. Everyone should have the opportunity to go to college but not everyone should go.

Or do online courses at a more local college with lower tuition - depending on what classes would transfer to their preferred university. I know not all schools will accept everything but it would be a cheaper option. A local small private school is actually running adds for this option. I think they hope that students will like the experience enough to stay to finish their degree.