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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Duke Fall Housing Announcement

    Freshmen and sophomores on campus in the fall, juniors and seniors in the spring.

    From the Chronicle:

    Duke to limit Fall housing to first-years and sophomores, according to Provost email

    In a Sunday email to faculty, Provost Sally Kornbluth outlined a new Fall plan that limits on-campus undergraduate housing to first-years, sophomores and students who have “personal or academic circumstances that require campus housing and who have been approved for residence by Student Affairs.”

    Juniors and seniors will have priority for Spring semester housing if public health conditions remain the same, Kornbluth wrote in the email, a copy of which was obtained by The Chronicle. First-years and sophomores will also be on campus in the Spring if conditions improve.

    Juniors and seniors living off campus in Durham will be able to use “certain Duke facilities (like libraries and laboratories), but only for approved academic purposes (e.g., senior theses),” Kornbluth wrote. “Students living off-campus will not be able to access residence halls, dining areas or social spaces.”
    There will be a Duke email soon, which I will pass along.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    As the parent of an incoming freshman, I’m really sad about this news. 3 months on campus and then 9 months at home is not going to be a great way to start.

  3. #3
    I've been curious for some time what effect Covid-19 and social distancing needs have had on yield/matriculation rates, especially for expensive private schools. It seems to me that the value proposition is sharply impaired if you aren't going to interact much with other top-shelf student talent, great professors, enjoy high levels of cultural exposure, arts, extracurriculars, and so forth. The pressure to hold in-person classes must be immense. Why pay $$$$$ for a pricey school far away if you're going to be watching video lectures and interacting just online?

    Maybe some kids & parents would agree to it, in the hope that things change within a year or so. But ... it's uncertain, it's a gamble.

    Anyway just wondering if anyone has seen news or analyses of this w/r/t Duke or other schools.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    I've been curious for some time what effect Covid-19 and social distancing needs have had on yield/matriculation rates, especially for expensive private schools. It seems to me that the value proposition is sharply impaired if you aren't going to interact much with other top-shelf student talent, great professors, enjoy high levels of cultural exposure, arts, extracurriculars, and so forth. The pressure to hold in-person classes must be immense. Why pay $$$$$ for a pricey school far away if you're going to be watching video lectures and interacting just online?

    Maybe some kids & parents would agree to it, in the hope that things change within a year or so. But ... it's uncertain, it's a gamble.

    Anyway just wondering if anyone has seen news or analyses of this w/r/t Duke or other schools.
    I was recently on a Chronicle alumni event with the current editors. This question was asked, both in terms of returning students and entering freshman. Questions were also asked about how Duke was going to manage classes like science labs, performance, etc. They did not know (and frankly didn’t really seem to even have these questions on their radars, which was disappointing).

    I too would really like to know the stats on kids taking gap years, when they must make their final decisions, the financial impact, and if there is a process for re-entry.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    For Duke students, final gap year decisions had to be made by July 20. Students were told to make those decisions based on a very detailed plan to have everyone on campus. Now, a few days after that deadline they have changed the plan to say students can only be on campus for 1 semester. There is no longer an option to defer or opt out. I’m sure everyone is doing their best, but it really feels like a bait and switch. I know my daughter is very upset and frustrated by today’s announcement.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    For Duke students, final gap year decisions had to be made by July 20. Students were told to make those decisions based on a very detailed plan to have everyone on campus. Now, a few days after that deadline they have changed the plan to say students can only be on campus for 1 semester. There is no longer an option to defer or opt out. I’m sure everyone is doing their best, but it really feels like a bait and switch. I know my daughter is very upset and frustrated by today’s announcement.
    They have extended the gap year deadline to August 16.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    They have extended the gap year deadline to August 16.
    admirable

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Reading the FAQs, no outsiders allowed on campus until further notice. Hence no football game (or other sports) attendance even if games go on.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Reading the FAQs, no outsiders allowed on campus until further notice. Hence no football game (or other sports) attendance even if games go on.
    Exceptions, aren't there, for tail-gaters, who promise never to go into WW Stadium? :-)
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post

    I too would really like to know the stats on kids taking gap years, when they must make their final decisions, the financial impact, and if there is a process for re-entry.
    I was recently told by a parent of a would-be Duke freshman who has decided to take a gap year that he was told by Admissions that, of the approx 1600 incoming frosh, about 500 are taking the gap year. So 30%. And that's before today's announcement.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I was recently told by a parent of a would-be Duke freshman who has decided to take a gap year that he was told by Admissions that, of the approx 1600 incoming frosh, about 500 are taking the gap year. So 30%. And that's before today's announcement.
    that's nuts. I imagine they might be allowing more students off the wait list to try to fill the gap in revenue to some degree. I wouldn't want to be the person trying to juggle those numbers.
    1200. DDMF.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I was recently told by a parent of a would-be Duke freshman who has decided to take a gap year that he was told by Admissions that, of the approx 1600 incoming frosh, about 500 are taking the gap year. So 30%. And that's before today's announcement.
    Thanks for sharing. And I assume all of those students are guaranteed a spot next year? I would hate to be a rising senior applying to Duke - it is already hard enough to get in, and now a lot of seats are pre-filled. I assume some kids will get pulled off the wait list this year but there is going to be a huge hole in tuition revenue for the upcoming school year. The Board of Trustees will finally have to spend down some of the gigantic endowment. This will likely be a huge challenge for schools that don't have the financial flexibility that Duke has.

    I was recently speaking to someone I met about au peres. They are looking for one but it is hard to find one given constantly changing laws about visas. I suggested that since there are numerous college students now taking a year off and looking for something to do, they should try to find an American au pere. I don't know much about the process but it seemed like a logical idea? Obviously you want someone who truly wants to be there and has an interest in kids but I'm sure there are plenty of them out there.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I was recently told by a parent of a would-be Duke freshman who has decided to take a gap year that he was told by Admissions that, of the approx 1600 incoming frosh, about 500 are taking the gap year. So 30%. And that's before today's announcement.
    FWIW, I reached out to a family member who is a director at a relatively similar boston school, who reported their number was "3-5%," so it seems a bit absurd there is such a spread in the market for e to take this 100% at face value. None of my connections at Duke have much details, and I don't have the connections in admissions I once did, unfortuantely.

    Is it possible it is 500 out of the full population of 7000? (which would put it at 7%, a bit more in line with what seems to be reported elsewhere?)


    In either case, absent any other evidence, this is a bit hear-hear-hear say, and I wouldn't put 100% stock in that number, even if I 100% believe tommy that he WAS recently told it by such a person.
    1200. DDMF.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    FWIW, I reached out to a family member who is a director at a relatively similar boston school, who reported their number was "3-5%," so it seems a bit absurd there is such a spread in the market for e to take this 100% at face value. None of my connections at Duke have much details, and I don't have the connections in admissions I once did, unfortuantely.

    Is it possible it is 500 out of the full population of 7000? (which would put it at 7%, a bit more in line with what seems to be reported elsewhere?)


    In either case, absent any other evidence, this is a bit hear-hear-hear say, and I wouldn't put 100% stock in that number, even if I 100% believe tommy that he WAS recently told it by such a person.
    So sorry but I recontacted the person who told me this, and turns out he had not spoken with someone at Admissions about this, but rather to someone else who had spoken to someone who worked with or is somehow otherwise "associated with" Admissions, and it was an estimate based on other data. So it may well me significantly less than 30%. It was out of the entering freshman class of 1600 though, not out of the entire student body. Nevertheless, apologies - I should not have posted that 500 number without further verification.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Duke is fortunate that demand is so high that people will still line up (from the waiting list) to grab a spot vacated by someone taking a gap year, even if the first year experience is largely in mom and dad's basement.

    Some schools are telling kids they can't automatically take a gap year and enter in the Fall of 2021...

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    My son is a rising senior in high school. He’s worried about the gap year impact on his admissions prospects. (And, yes, Duke is on his list, but currently behind Vandy.)

    -jk

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    My son is a rising senior in high school. He’s worried about the gap year impact on his admissions prospects. (And, yes, Duke is on his list, but currently behind Vandy.)

    -jk

    best of luck to him, definitely an unprecedented time for colleges and kids..

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    even if I 100% believe tommy that he WAS recently told it by such a person.
    Yep.

    2 quotes come to mind:

    "Trust, but verify"

    "My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who [heard 500 freshmen are taking a gap year]. I guess it’s pretty serious."

    and bonus:

    "I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out"

    About an hour from me is The University of the South, aka Sewanee. They went from closing the campus - including discouraging outsiders from using their hiking trails (in their version of Duke Forest) - to welcoming visitors for self-guided tours and stating a goal of 2/3 of classes meeting in person - all while the numbers are climbing again. Thus I conjecture they feel great pressure to offer an in-person educational experience.

    Duke may be in a better position w/r/t finances, and willingness of kids to wait or accept a limited first-year experience. But I think a lot of small LACs - whose full-freight costs aren't that different than Duke - may not have those strengths with which to weather the storm.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    best of luck to him, definitely an unprecedented time for colleges and kids..
    Thanks. He had five school visits over his spring break canceled, including Duke (where he thinks he has an idea of the school from going to games in Cameron). Virtual visits just aren’t the same. He’d already seen Vandy - that may be playing into it. That and staying away from us...

    -jk

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    So sorry but I recontacted the person who told me this, and turns out he had not spoken with someone at Admissions about this, but rather to someone else who had spoken to someone who worked with or is somehow otherwise "associated with" Admissions, and it was an estimate based on other data. So it may well me significantly less than 30%. It was out of the entering freshman class of 1600 though, not out of the entire student body. Nevertheless, apologies - I should not have posted that 500 number without further verification.
    What % of Duke's student body are international students, cause they are not allowed into the states, right?

    I have a rising senior and she is pretty much already planning to take a gap year - next year.

    Still, I think Duke will be fine - brand, endowment, demand. Many schools though will struggle immensely, and quite a few will almost immediately be on the brink of closing this year, between gap years and the lack of full boat paying international students. And I bet that the US families that are paying full boat have a higher probability of taking a gap year. Who wants to spend 75K for an online experience?

    Personally, I think we will be looking back 2-3 years from now and higher education will look materially different. It was already under massive stress with the inflation and the crushing student debt. Covid will almost surely be a catalyst for major change.

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