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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post

    I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire
    This is how I was thinking about it too. Someone upthread beat me to it but I immediately thought of John Smith (aka “Onion”). Lightly recruited (if I remember correctly), was glued to the bench freshman year, and then became an important part of some good teams.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh no, not Petway! View Post
    This is how I was thinking about it too. Someone upthread beat me to it but I immediately thought of John Smith (aka “Onion”). Lightly recruited (if I remember correctly), was glued to the bench freshman year, and then became an important part of some good teams.
    Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

    Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

    Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

    In other words, strictly an inside player

    Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

    As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

    So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

    After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Okay - I'll say it.

    LEE MELCHIONNI!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    dude i saw Nick Horvath in Card gym this summer and let me tell ya wooowiee.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Okay - I'll say it.

    LEE MELCHIONNI!
    And his right-handed doppelgänger Marty Clark.

  6. #46
    Alan Shaw

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

    Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

    Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

    In other words, strictly an inside player

    Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

    As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

    So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

    After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.
    That is a good one Jim. I was thinking of another Smith as well, Nolan.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by tteettimes View Post
    Alan Shaw
    My device doesn’t show the emoji that you surely used.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by tteettimes View Post
    Alan Shaw
    There are wonderful stories about Duke hoopsters, but I'm not sure many can top the Alan Shaw story I've heard, regardless of whether it's true or not.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    There are wonderful stories about Duke hoopsters, but I'm not sure many can top the Alan Shaw story I've heard, regardless of whether it's true or not.
    Waiting for your pm.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Waiting for your pm.
    I don't think I dare...but I bet some others on the forum have heard of this? (Alan was a very nice guy)...

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I don't think I dare...but I bet some others on the forum have heard of this? (Alan was a very nice guy)...
    I have not. But he may be the reason Len Elmore hates Duke:

    Feb. 3, 1973 – Duke 85, No. 3 Maryland 81

    Lefty Driesell's return to Duke was always a big event, but none was bigger than this 1973 visit, when he brought a powerful team led by Durham native John Lucas and big men Len Elmore and Tom McMillen. But Maryland's young backcourt star was outplayed by Blue Devil senior Gary Melchionni, who scored 39 points out of a delay game that Coach Bucky Waters dubbed “The Mongoose.” Alan Shaw, who had shut down Bob McAdoo the year before, limited Maryland center Len Elmore to three points in 33 minutes of action. Driesell picked up a late technical for calling a timeout he didn't have – afterwards, explaining that he made the call on purpose to stop the clock, Lefty uttered his immortal line: “Ah kin coach!”
    https://goduke.com/news/2015/1/18/209848909.aspx

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.
    Agreed.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilwin View Post
    Agreed.
    Stats as Freshman:
    Games Games Started MPG PPG RPG
    Marshall Plumlee 19 0 2.6 0.1 0.6
    Brian Zoubek 32 2 7.3 3.1 2.2

    Stats as Seniors:
    Games Games Started MPG PPG RPG
    Marshall Plumlee 36 36 30.5 8.3 8.6
    Brian Zoubek 40 16 18.7 5.6 7.7

    Just a snapshot, but it looks like freshman Marshall was significantly worse than freshman Zoubek, while senior Marshall was arguably better (at least over the course of the whole season) than senior Zoubek. So which of those two improved more in their time at Duke?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth&Justise View Post
    Stats as Freshman:
    Games Games Started MPG PPG RPG
    Marshall Plumlee 19 0 2.6 0.1 0.6
    Brian Zoubek 32 2 7.3 3.1 2.2

    Stats as Seniors:
    Games Games Started MPG PPG RPG
    Marshall Plumlee 36 36 30.5 8.3 8.6
    Brian Zoubek 40 16 18.7 5.6 7.7

    Just a snapshot, but it looks like freshman Marshall was significantly worse than freshman Zoubek, while senior Marshall was arguably better (at least over the course of the whole season) than senior Zoubek. So which of those two improved more in their time at Duke?
    If we're talking percentage improvement, MP3 wins hands down. He was a disaster during his first 2 years at Duke. Zoubek was a fouling machine, but he clearly had more talent coming in. So, safe to say MP3's base was lower than Zoubek's as a frosh.

    But in terms of impact, I'll take senior Zoubs over senior MP3. Zoubek's rebounding rate was off the charts good and his second half of the season stats are incomparable with his first half. Also, no one saw second half senior Zoubs coming, and many, myself included, believe second half Zoubs is a biiiiiiiiig reason why we won the natty that year.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

    Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

    Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

    In other words, strictly an inside player

    Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

    As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

    So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

    After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.
    Great post Jim, thanks for all that detail. I was the one that first mentioned John upthread. One question - how does a guy go from being academically ineligible to play ball his senior year in high school to getting his PhD in math. Wow!
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    Great post Jim, thanks for all that detail. I was the one that first mentioned John upthread. One question - how does a guy go from being academically ineligible to play ball his senior year in high school to getting his PhD in math. Wow!
    Sometimes a light comes on, and a person gets motivated. I’m still waiting on a flicker of light for myself.

  18. #58
    Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet but the first name that came to my mind was actually a different Plumlee... Mason. He was obviously always talented but his freshman year he averaged 3.7 points per game. By the time he became a senior he was 2nd team all-america. I remember being particularly amazed at his improvement from his junior year to his senior year. I didn't think he had it in him to become a play maker the way he did (and then has continued that in his NBA career). Super impressed by his improvement.

    I guess it's hard to compare to guys that started out not playing and ended up as solid contributors. Then there are the guys like Shane who was always good but their game grew so much over their time at Duke. Still... for the time I've been watching (94 to current day)... no one impressed me as much with their improvement as Mason Plumlee.

  19. #59
    Marty Clark

  20. #60

    John Smith

    Smith was a great player - actually made big contributions in '88 as a junior. Had a big game against a tough and physical URI team coached by Tom Penders in the Sweet 16 - but broke his hand celebrating. That did not hurt in the big upset of Temple in the Regional Final but I always thought his contribution was missed in the Final Four loss to Kansas.

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