Which player do you think improved the most over their time at Duke?

[MartyClark]

Gerald Henderson immediately came to my mind. I had to Google his stats to see if my initial thought had any merit.

He averaged 6.8 ppg as a freshman, 16.5 as a junior.

He was a highly regarded recruit who, perhaps, disappointed as a freshman. I vaguely remember that there was some talk that he had exercise induced asthma but then another view that he was just too worked up as a freshman.

He ended up being a great Duke player and had a good NBA career.

[Travis]

Thomas Hill comes to mind. No starts as a Freshman. Less than 13 minutes per game. 3.4 pts and 2.2 rebounds per game. Minutes nearly double as a Soph And he scores 11.4 pts per game, starting a bit over half the time. Last two years starts nearly every game and averages around 15 pts per game. And plays well enough to be 3rd team All-ACC last three years I believe.

And of course those teams were loaded. More than the numbers, I remember being concerned when Billy Mc. transferred and we got even better, and T. Hill’s improvement was a big reason why I think.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Ryan Kelly averaged 6.5 minutes and 1.2 ppg his freshman year. His junior and senior year he was a key contributor, averaging 11.8 and 12.9 ppg, as well as over 5 rpg, and who knows what he would have done his senior year without the injury.

[Acymetric]

Justin Robinson, anyone?

...sigh...

Edit: I see jk had the same reaction.

[roywhite]

From Coach K's first decade, Kevin Strickland is a good choice.

No starts his first two years (on very good teams of 1985 and 1986)
Averaged 11.5 points as a junior, and 16.1 points as a senior; good shooter and became a better defender
In Kevin's senior year, he was a key player on the ACC Tournament Champions and Final Four team.

http://www.dukeupdate.com/Alumni/kevin_strickland.htm

[jimsumner]

From Coach K's first decade, Kevin Strickland is a good choice.

No starts his first two years (on very good teams of 1985 and 1986)
Averaged 11.5 points as a junior, and 16.1 points as a senior; good shooter and became a better defender
In Kevin's senior year, he was a key player on the ACC Tournament Champions and Final Four team.

http://www.dukeupdate.com/Alumni/kevin_strickland.htm

Maybe. But sometimes guys don't improve so much as get an opportunity to play. Strickland spent his first two seasons at Duke backing up Johnny Dawkins. Dawkins would have kept darn near anybody in the country on the bench and he never came out.

Not saying he didn't get better. Of course he did. But the stats are misleading.

[camion]

I've told this story before and I guarantee you I'll tell it again.

But after the 1975 season Bill Foster told then sophomore Tate Armstrong that he would like him to come back in better condition.

Armstrong went home to Texas--in the summer-and proceeded to run, 10, 15, 20 miles a day, 100 miles a week. In the summer. In Texas.

Duke didn't track minutes-per-game in 1976. But Armstrong averaged 37 minutes per game in 1977. Good enough for you, coach?

This is a guy who came off the bench behind fellow freshman Edgar Burch in 1974, an historically bad Duke team. He came back in 1976 as one of the best guards in the country.

And while I'm thinking about it, Mark Crow also came in with that class and spent most of the season playing for the JV team. Crow played 10 games for a terrible, terrible team in 1974. TEN GAMES. Bob Cook played more. Yes, that Bob Cook.

By the time he ended up Crow was giving Duke 12 points and six rebounds per game and actually played some in the NBA. No one would have seen that in 1974.

I thought immediately of Tate then I wondered if I had remembered correctly. Thanks for confirming my recollection.

I mainly remember Tate's physical transformation from one year to the next. He went from being a bit pudgy (for a basketball guard) to being a lean mean playing machine.

[sagegrouse]

Just Jumpers Redick transformed into a complete player. He probably will not get at lot of love in this thread but his name deserves mnention. Diet, exercise and lots of hard work over his four years at Duke. He never got enough credit for how good a defender he became.

Comments among the Duke faithful seemed to think that JJ would take a couple of years to develop into a valuable player. Coach K said after the 2003 season that it was clear from the get-go that JJ was the best player in the class. Perhaps "coach speak," perhaps not. Perhaps fan blather?

Battier was a highly recruited HS player that everyone wanted.

I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire

[roywhite]

Maybe. But sometimes guys don't improve so much as get an opportunity to play. Strickland spent his first two seasons at Duke backing up Johnny Dawkins. Dawkins would have kept darn near anybody in the country on the bench and he never came out.

Not saying he didn't get better. Of course he did. But the stats are misleading.

Yes, of course, he was not taking time away from Dawkins but it was hard to tell from his first two years that Strickland would become a good player.

In his second year, Kevin shot 37.2% from the field, 69.2% from the FT line and turned the ball over frequently. He looked lost.

By his senior year, he shot 52.7% FG, 80.8% from the FT line, and rebounded well for a backcourt player. A virtual metamorphosis. Plus he should get extra credit for his hometown of Mt. Airy. Shazam!

[budwom]

I thought immediately of Tate then I wondered if I had remembered correctly. Thanks for confirming my recollection.

I mainly remember Tate's physical transformation from one year to the next. He went from being a bit pudgy (for a basketball guard) to being a lean mean playing machine.

I missed the entire Armstrong era due to living without electricity in those days..did catch some Olympic action, though, I believe.

[Dukehk]

Boozer. Quinn. Zoubek. Carawell. Battier.

[Edouble]

Comments among the Duke faithful seemed to think that JJ would take a couple of years to develop into a valuable player. Coach K said after the 2003 season that it was clear from the get-go that JJ was the best player in the class. Perhaps "coach speak," perhaps not. Perhaps fan blather?

Battier was a highly recruited HS player that everyone wanted.

I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

The argument that Shane is disqualified from being considered a player who improved a great deal over his time at Duke, due to being so highly recruited, falls flat, IMO.

If you saw Shane his freshman year and thought he was NPOY material, more power to you. He did not look like that to me at all.

[sagegrouse]

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

The argument that Shane is disqualified from being considered a player who improved a great deal over his time at Duke, due to being so highly recruited, falls flat, IMO.

If you saw Shane his freshman year and thought he was NPOY material, more power to you. He did not look like that to me at all.

No questions you are right, but I applied an additional screen -- not highly recruited (which I waived for Zoubs).

[jv001]

Quinn, Zoubs and Tony Lang.

[SkyBrickey]

Ive got to go Carrawell. He was very limited offensively when he got to Duke. And I don’t recall him being that highly rated, maybe in the 30s nationally. By his senior year he was a total stud on both ends of the court.

I’ve never seen a Duke player improve that much offensively.

[1991 duke law]

Grant Hill - that guy had nothing as a freshman but boy did he blossom in his senior year.

I joke - I joke.

[Kedsy]

I don't think he became that good of a defender until he hit the NBA. He was an end of the bench warmer, and there was one reason why, and his coach in Orlando let him know it. Under Stan Van Gundy, JJ slowly became not only a great shooter, but a relentless defender. It was crazy watching him chase guys all over the court. Took him a couple years, but he got off of Stan's bench and made a huge impact on both ends of the court.

I watched JJ quite a bit when he came to Philadelphia. His defensive improvement after his first couple years in the League was impressive, and he deserves credit for upping his defense to the point where he could start and earn big minutes, but has never risen to the level of being a good NBA defender.

[jimsumner]

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

.

Not even close. Burgess' prep reputation was in free fall by the end of his senior season. Battier was much more highly regarded.

And Randolph was the consensus No. 14 player in his prep class. There was no RSCI for the prep class of 1997 but Battier would have been around 5-7. He was a HUGE get.

Battier did improve over his four years, especially as a 3-point shooter. But the overwhelming majority of college players improve over the course of a three or four-year career. People keep citing players like Carlos Boozer-consensus No. 8 in his class-or Ryan Kelly-No. 14 in his class when increased playing time and/or enhanced roles is more of a factor than the normal progression they showed. Battier was a freshman on a team that included 6-8 senior All-America forward Roshown McLeod. Duke didn't ask him to do as much in 1998 as they asked him to do in 2000. Ryan Kelly backed up junior Kyle Singler, senior Lance Thomas and more-athletic classmate Mason Plumlee in 2010. The minutes just weren't there.

Again all of Battier, Boozer and Kelly and others got better as their careers progressed. But excluding players whose careers were negatively impacted by injuries or off-court issues (e.g. Ricky Price), we can say that about darn near anybody who played basketball at Duke or anywhere else. That's how it works.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Lance Thomas comes to mind too...

OK, when I said Lance Thomas above, I thought the intent of the thread was who improved most AFTER their time at Duke, not while at Duke. I guess that's a different thread, but also an interesting topic!

[Acymetric]

OK, when I said Lance Thomas above, I thought the intent of the thread was who improved most AFTER their time at Duke, not while at Duke. I guess that's a different thread, but also an interesting topic!

Lance improved quite a bit while he was at Duke too...maybe not so much on the offensive end but he became quite the defender his senior year.