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  1. #1

    Faceshield vs mask for covid 19...?

    Hi all,

    First off, I hope the mods donít mind me posting this here... I rather trust this community, and am in a position where I need guidance from people with knowledge and experience, and really hope the DBR community doesnít mind. I know we have a covid thread, but this isnít really about new news or anything, and will likely be a short lived thread.

    So most of you know that I am a teacher. I am also on our district reopening committee here in NJ, having to deal with covid 19.

    So one of the major issues we are facing is masks. Not only are they uncomfortable to some, but they also REALLY interfere with the ability to interact with people. Teachers are being required to wear them right now.

    But I wanted to ask the medical people here... is there a significant difference between masks and clear face shields? What Iíve managed to find online seems to indicate that face shields are basically as effective as masks... that it is basically all about droplets, and shields do a good job both containing your own but also keeping others away, unless someone below you sneezes directly up under the shield.

    So do face shields work about as well as masks? Would anyone in the medical field be able to offer a little guidance to a newbie facing a serious amount of responsibility?

    Thanks all!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Hi all,

    First off, I hope the mods donít mind me posting this here... I rather trust this community, and am in a position where I need guidance from people with knowledge and experience, and really hope the DBR community doesnít mind. I know we have a covid thread, but this isnít really about new news or anything, and will likely be a short lived thread.

    So most of you know that I am a teacher. I am also on our district reopening committee here in NJ, having to deal with covid 19.

    So one of the major issues we are facing is masks. Not only are they uncomfortable to some, but they also REALLY interfere with the ability to interact with people. Teachers are being required to wear them right now.

    But I wanted to ask the medical people here... is there a significant difference between masks and clear face shields? What Iíve managed to find online seems to indicate that face shields are basically as effective as masks... that it is basically all about droplets, and shields do a good job both containing your own but also keeping others away, unless someone below you sneezes directly up under the shield.

    So do face shields work about as well as masks? Would anyone in the medical field be able to offer a little guidance to a newbie facing a serious amount of responsibility?

    Thanks all!
    I've seen no data WRT face shields but our hospital now requires us *and* our patients to wear them when a treadmill stress test is being performed to minimize aerosol/droplet from the heavy breathing. They're more expensive (I think) and can be "sterilized" with disinfectant wipes, but should last longer than a "surgical" face mask. Obviously, the cloth ones can be re-used/re-washed multiple times but we're not allowed to wear them at work, but this is pretty much what we wear when we'll be around other humans indoors. I keep my face mask on under the face shield (not needed but I get tired of on/off/on/off). Hope that helps.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Westport, CT
    From the CDC website:

    Face Shields
    It is not known if face shields provide any benefit as source control to protect others from the spray of respiratory particles. CDC does not recommend use of face shields for normal everyday activities or as a substitute for cloth face coverings. Some people may choose to use a face shield when sustained close contact with other people is expected. If face shields are used without a mask, they should wrap around the sides of the wearerís face and extend to below the chin. Disposable face shields should only be worn for a single use. Reusable face shields should be cleaned and disinfected after each use. Plastic face shields for newborns and infants are NOT recommended.

    I don't believe that wearing a face shield is in your best interest as a teacher.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by fisheyes View Post
    From the CDC website:

    Face Shields
    It is not known if face shields provide any benefit as source control to protect others from the spray of respiratory particles. CDC does not recommend use of face shields for normal everyday activities or as a substitute for cloth face coverings. Some people may choose to use a face shield when sustained close contact with other people is expected. If face shields are used without a mask, they should wrap around the sides of the wearerís face and extend to below the chin. Disposable face shields should only be worn for a single use. Reusable face shields should be cleaned and disinfected after each use. Plastic face shields for newborns and infants are NOT recommended.

    I don't believe that wearing a face shield is in your best interest as a teacher.
    Better info than I provided. Thanks! Makes me wonder about the value of the info under which I'm working now.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    I can't speak from the medical perspective about the safety of various masks, but I can comment on what I see and hear from the people wearing masks in south Florida in the heat and what they prefer.

    Fortunately, people are moving slowly towards the reality of wearing a mask, even in the heat, and want to respect others by doing so.

    I'm selling lots of these tube style masks that are 100% polyester, lightweight and easily breathable. They are casually worn around the neck, like a scarf, and pulled up as people enter a building or get close others.
    The main thing I hear is, they like the fact that they are convenient. They're comfortable and always right around the neck and ready to pull up as needed.
    People seem to like them much more than the standard surgical style masks that they have to wear all the time around the ears or put away in a purse or pocket until they need them.

    Most people understand they are not intended to protect the wearer so much from the virus, but to protect others from the person actually wearing the mask from expelling droplets.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    I can't speak from the medical perspective about the safety of various masks, but I can comment on what I see and hear from the people wearing masks in south Florida in the heat and what they prefer.

    Fortunately, people are moving slowly towards the reality of wearing a mask, even in the heat, and want to respect others by doing so.

    I'm selling lots of these tube style masks that are 100% polyester, lightweight and easily breathable. They are casually worn around the neck, like a scarf, and pulled up as people enter a building or get close others.
    The main thing I hear is, they like the fact that they are convenient. They're comfortable and always right around the neck and ready to pull up as needed.
    People seem to like them much more than the standard surgical style masks that they have to wear all the time around the ears or put away in a purse or pocket until they need them.

    Most people understand they are not intended to protect the wearer so much from the virus, but to protect others from the person actually wearing the mask from expelling droplets.
    The real issue (Iíve been looking into neck gaiters for exercise, including Mission, Joe Young, and Achiou) seems to be that most of what I am finding is that gaiters are too thin to serve any practical purpose, and appear to be the equivalent of pandemic security theatre. Something is better than nothing, and yet breathable UPF50 cloth likely isnít stopping anything.

  7. #7
    I'm seldom late to label anything as security theatre - we live in a target-rich environment. However, the perfect can be the enemy of the good, and the good the enemy of better than nothing.

    I'd suspect even one layer "buff" tubes certainly will large droplets unless they are propelled with force, as in a cough or sneeze. You can double them up if you like too, and that should do even better.

    I have tried on various face masks and found that they may do fine for stuff projected directly in front, they all gap on my face in one spot or another (nose, chin, or cheeks). So tiny drops floating around no doubt can go in or out. As a result, I've decided to stick with my large, doubled-over, bandana (usu. a 100% polyester one, though I have a bunch that are cotton too). The polyester ones cling to my face very well and seal better than most masks I've seen. I've tried it single layer (seemed generally inadequate) and quadrupled (hard to breathe through). So I make the square bandana in a triangle (doubled over) and wear it bandito style. That seems to be the sweet spot of coverage and breathability.

    I change it out every time I go out and return.

    My cotton ones provide good coverage too, and don't gap much either, but they're not as clingy, so when my 2 poly ones are clean, they're the ones I use.

    For my NC Duke friends I got started on the bandana thing by collecting the NC state parks annual bandana designs. Only $4, neat commemorative designs, and supports the parks. Everyone wins.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    The real issue (Iíve been looking into neck gaiters for exercise, including Mission, Joe Young, and Achiou) seems to be that most of what I am finding is that gaiters are too thin to serve any practical purpose, and appear to be the equivalent of pandemic security theatre. Something is better than nothing, and yet breathable UPF50 cloth likely isnít stopping anything.

    As mentioned, theyíre not perfect.

    Years ago when inflatable life jackets first came out for boaters, I tried a pair. They were comfortable and convenient, you could wear them all day, but if you were ejected from a boat you had to depend on pulling a cord or a tab to disintegrate when you hit the water before they would inflate. The CO2 cartridge would often leak and fail to inflate them too. That was a scary thought for me running a 70 mph bass boat all the time, Iíve seen guys get ejected, so I always wore a vest.

    The inflatables didnít come close to offering the same protection a standard vest life jacket offered, yet the USCG approved them anyway, just because it would get more people wearing life jackets.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  9. #9
    Just wanted to bump this back up... hope that is okay

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Switzerland warning about face shields

    Just saw this article about how a canton in Switzerland is warning against the use of face shields. I'm simply offering it up for your consideration; I have no idea if the concerns mentioned in the article are valid.

    https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/onl...t-face-shields

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    The face shields are meant to be a supplement to the mask, rather than a replacement. A cloth face covering is really more about protecting others, although it probably is better than nothing.
    Face shields are about protecting the wearers eyes from the virus. I don't think they would be anywhere near as good as a mask at keeping the wearer's secretions from others, and would also probably not provide the wearer with as much protection from the virus entering the nose or mouth.
    The only tthing a mask doesn't really do at all is protect the eyes, which is another potential portal of entry.
    In short, a mask plus a face shield is best, a mask alone second best. A face shield by itself is the worst, although it is likely better than nothing at all.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    The face shields are meant to be a supplement to the mask, rather than a replacement. A cloth face covering is really more about protecting others, although it probably is better than nothing.
    Face shields are about protecting the wearers eyes from the virus. I don't think they would be anywhere near as good as a mask at keeping the wearer's secretions from others, and would also probably not provide the wearer with as much protection from the virus entering the nose or mouth.
    The only tthing a mask doesn't really do at all is protect the eyes, which is another potential portal of entry.
    In short, a mask plus a face shield is best, a mask alone second best. A face shield by itself is the worst, although it is likely better than nothing at all.
    Thanks!

    Just finished a stress test on a patient and all participants in the frivolity (patient, sonographer and cardiologist) all wearing our designer face shields AND masks. Best we can do in these times.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    I'm glad to see this topic popping back up. I was thinking about the face shield thing too. I'm a lawyer in my day job, but as of a year ago, I'm teaching education law to educators who are getting their doctorate degrees. It is unclear whether, when the new semester starts, the courses will be virtual or on-ground.

    I don't tend to roam around the classroom, and am not particularly concerned about my getting exposed to others. Like Lord Ash in the opening message of this thread, I'm concerned that wearing a mask inhibits communication (including the reading of social cues/facial expressions). Does anyone have experience using the face shield (without a mask) in a teaching-type environment? Also, are my glasses going to fog up even worse than with the mask? If that's the case, then it's no shield for me.

    Thanks

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Your glasses would definitely fog up more with the mask than with the face shield.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Your glasses would definitely fog up more with the mask than with the face shield.
    Really? I would expect a face shield to be terrible for fogging (and maybe even fog up itself).

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Your glasses would definitely fog up more with the mask than with the face shield.
    Correct (repeatedly), as usual.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Really? I would expect a face shield to be terrible for fogging (and maybe even fog up itself).
    There's probably two inches between the shield and your nose/mouth so the hot, steamy, malodorous breath I have is directed upward directly to my glasses on both sides well before reaching the shield.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

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