The NBA is coming back

[budwom]

FWIW, prior to the pandemic, the NBA was already toying with the idea of a post-Thanksgiving start and a later finish in order to reduce overlap with the NFL, and take advantage of less competition for viewers in late June and July. The current circumstances effectively forced their hand to experiment with this calendar for the 2020-21 season, with a reasonably high likelihood that the change becomes permanent.

That's interesting...hard to see why either players or fans would think that playing hoops (indoors, of course) in late June and July is a fun summer activity...

[1991 duke law]

I agree Kyrie is a strange dude, especially in his commentaries. But I enjoy watching him play and am proud to claim him as a Blue Devil. The winning shot in the NBA championship doesn't hurt, of course. And, as far as I can tell, he has always had the support of his teammates and coaches. And if he didn't, why would he be a VP of the NBPA?

Look, I understand many people feel as you both do. I must have more tolerance for idiosyncratic behavior -- or something. Anyway, we don't want to get a rep as a fan site that "eats its own."

In fairness, this site rarely criticizes anybody who played at Duke. And one could argue that there are very few who deserve criticism. So these criticisms of Kyrie should have no impact on anyone’s perception of this site.

There are very few kids who played at duke that I look at through a negative lens. But I also do not ascribe to the “if you were on my team, I will support you regardless of anything”.

I do not hate Kyrie and I think he’s very intelligent and colorful, but I would not want him on my team. As someone noted earlier, I will take Winslow or any number of Blue Devils currently in the NBA. I should qualify this by noting that I do enjoy watching him play. But that is a different story

[kAzE]

In fairness, this site rarely criticizes anybody who played at Duke. And one could argue that there are very few who deserve criticism. So these criticisms of Kyrie should have no impact on anyone’s perception of this site.

There are very few kids who played at duke that I look at through a negative lens. But I also do not ascribe to the “if you were on my team, I will support you regardless of anything”.

I do not hate Kyrie and I think he’s very intelligent and colorful, but I would not want him on my team. As someone noted earlier, I will take Winslow or any number of Blue Devils currently in the NBA. I should qualify this by noting that I do enjoy watching him play. But that is a different story

Kyrie is an amazing basketball player, arguably the greatest dribbler of all time, and he hit one of biggest shots ever made in NBA history. He is one of the top 5 most marketable players in the entire world. His Nike signature shoes are more popular than the signature shoes of much better players like LeBron and KD.

I'm glad he played for Duke, and that he's a Blue Devil. But you're right, I wouldn't want him on my team if I was a fan of a particular NBA team. He has an inflated perception of his leadership ability, and it's embarrassing to hear some of the things he says at times. I just wish he was a little more self aware and more judicious with his words when talking to the press.

Kyrie was my favorite player for a long, long time (Zion has since taken his place), but the more I've gotten to understand his personality over the past 8-9 years, the less likable he has become to me.

[luvdahops]

That's interesting...hard to see why either players or fans would think that playing hoops (indoors, of course) in late June and July is a fun summer activity...

Well, most of today's players grew up playing hoops in the summer with camps and AAU tournaments, so I doubt it's a very big change for them. And it would really only be the playoffs that extend fully into the summer, as the regular season would wrap up in mid-May, when weather is still iffy in many of the league's Northern cities (FWIW, I typically don't go to Cubs games until after Memorial Day). And it's really more about TV than anything else - trading ~5-6 weeks of competing for attention with prime portions of NFL and NCAAF schedules for competing with the first half or so of the MLB season instead.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kyrie is an amazing basketball player, arguably the greatest dribbler of all time, and he hit one of biggest shots ever made in NBA history. He is one of the top 5 most marketable players in the entire world. His Nike signature shoes are more popular than the signature shoes of much better players like LeBron and KD.

I'm glad he played for Duke, and that he's a Blue Devil. But you're right, I wouldn't want him on my team if I was a fan of a particular NBA team. He has an inflated perception of his leadership ability, and it's embarrassing to hear some of the things he says at times. I just wish he was a little more self aware and more judicious with his words when talking to the press.

Kyrie was my favorite player for a long, long time (Zion has since taken his place), but the more I've gotten to understand his personality over the past 8-9 years, the less likable he has become to me.

I'm with kAzE on this. I love Kyrie as an "on-court basketball" player. I do not like any other type of Kyrie. His need to sound smart, "woke", and get the attention of the nation through idiotic statements is frustrating. Add on the severe lack of leadership and the way he left Cleveland and Boston and he's a pretty easy guy to dislike, Duke fan or not.

Also, I don't get the whole "[xxx] player went to Duke so we have to support them" argument. To me, this fails for two reasons. First, I assume a lot of us went to Duke. Did you like all your classmates? Would you support every single classmate? There are a few bad apples who I don't care for. Second, I assume we wouldn't support a Duke basketball player if he committed a major crime (and on this forum, a player criticizing Coach K is on the same level as second-degree murder). But where do we draw that line for support? For me, a player who continuously puts his foot in his mouth is crossing that line for my support. But I assume everyone is different.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm with kAzE on this. I love Kyrie as an "on-court basketball" player. I do not like any other type of Kyrie. His need to sound smart, "woke", and get the attention of the nation through idiotic statements is frustrating. Add on the severe lack of leadership and the way he left Cleveland and Boston and he's a pretty easy guy to dislike, Duke fan or not.

Also, I don't get the whole "[xxx] player went to Duke so we have to support them" argument. To me, this fails for two reasons. First, I assume a lot of us went to Duke. Did you like all your classmates? Would you support every single classmate? There are a few bad apples who I don't care for. Second, I assume we wouldn't support a Duke basketball player if he committed a major crime (and on this forum, a player criticizing Coach K is on the same level as second-degree murder). But where do we draw that line for support? For me, a player who continuously puts his foot in his mouth is crossing that line for my support. But I assume everyone is different.

As one of the only folks on this board who didn't feel Grayson got a raw deal, I agree. There needs to be some level of accountability, regardless of the uniform someone used to wear.

However... I was listening to sports radio, and got a very different perspective on this particular stance by Kyrie.

Unsurprisingly, it's possible Kyrie didn't choose his words very well. This person on ESPN Radio (I don't recall who) explained it much better. Many NBA players are saying that sports would distract from the BLM movement and the importance of said protests.

I suspect we might have a very different perspective of his "leadership" if Kyrie were calling for a players strike to support the civil rights issues at the forefront right now. But, that's not really what's happening, because no one is playing, so there's nothing to stop doing.

So, by suggesting players not return to basketball to emphasize the BLM priorities, he is effectively asking for a political strike.

Now, you can agree or disagree with that as you like, but it definitely sounds different to fans, and also isn't wishy-washy leadership.

[budwom]

Kyrie also finds himself taking a similar position to that of Dwight Howard, which is rarely a good idea.

[Steven43]

Kyrie also finds himself taking a similar position to that of Dwight Howard, which is rarely a good idea.

It’s funny, that was the exact same thought I had after reading the article. If Dwight is your ally on a controversial issue you probably should rethink your position.

[1991 duke law]

I guess to Kyrie’s credit, there is financial pain to him should he not play. That being said, let’s not lose sight of the fact that he is already exceptionally wealthy. The same however cannot be said for Dwight Howard – he has a little financially to lose by not playing.

Obviously, we live in a free and democratic society. So should Kyrie wish to protest and demonstrate his protest by not playing basketball, that is his prerogative. Intellectually, I struggle with understanding how protesting by not playing basketball will have a meaningful or useful impact on the issue at hand. The only thing that alarms me is that I am on the same side of this issue with Stephen a Smith.

[kAzE]

I guess to Kyrie’s credit, there is financial pain to him should he not play. That being said, let’s not lose sight of the fact that he is already exceptionally wealthy. The same however cannot be said for Dwight Howard – he has a little financially to lose by not playing.

He was already not going to play. Kyrie is still recovering from his shoulder injury and the Nets already said his (and KD's) season is over. About 10 days ago, he was insisting on traveling to Orlando to support his teammates, but the league said no, because the plan is to keep the number of people in the bubble as low as possible. Is this movement to try to sabotage the Orlando league more about social justice or sour grapes?

Now Dwight supporting this makes absolutely no sense, because he was already going, he has no rings, and he's on a true contending team. LeBron has gotta be furious.

[kAzE]

I think Mike Wilbon makes the most rational and eloquent argument that I have heard for why Kyrie and Dwight's position on this issue is ludicrous:



Also, I agree with Tony K that I want to hear from LeBron/Chris Paul.

[sagegrouse]

Also, I don't get the whole "[xxx] player went to Duke so we have to support them" argument. To me, this fails for two reasons. First, I assume a lot of us went to Duke. Did you like all your classmates? Would you support every single classmate? There are a few bad apples who I don't care for. Second, I assume we wouldn't support a Duke basketball player if he committed a major crime (and on this forum, a player criticizing Coach K is on the same level as second-degree murder). .

You may have a straw man there. My own position is that Duke players, even somewhat controversial ones, deserve balanced treatment on DBR. Therefore, I am happy to respond to critics by taking the initiative to point out the positives of Kyrie -- not only his world-calss hoops talent, but that he has been honored with a VP at NBPA and no shortage of demand for his services. He's maddeningly eccentric but has other positives qualities as a hoops player.

No intent here to stifle other viewpoints. Now if some Duke player was sitting in the slammer convicted of a crime, there would be no need for balance.

[cato]

I think Mike Wilbon makes the most rational and eloquent argument that I have heard for why Kyrie and Dwight's position on this issue is ludicrous:



Also, I agree with Tony K that I want to hear from LeBron/Chris Paul.

I'm not sure if you have been reading coverage of this discussion, but Kyrie is not somehow on an island with Dwight Howard. He is one of the players voicing concerns, and appears to be speaking for others who are not in the same position to discuss these issues publicly.

For some reporting on Chris Paul's advice to the group discussing this, see this for example: https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-wh...eturning-play/

Also, the esteemed members of DBR trashing Kyrie's position among his peers should consider the fact that he is on the nine member Executive Committee of the player's association: https://nbpa.com/leadership

My guess is that Chris Paul engages with Kyrie just a tad bid more seriously that folks on this fan site. Then again, both Paul and Irving have a lot more at stake in these conversations than fans do.

[kAzE]

I'm not sure if you have been reading coverage of this discussion, but Kyrie is not somehow on an island with Dwight Howard. He is one of the players voicing concerns, and appears to be speaking for others who are not in the same position to discuss these issues publicly.

For some reporting on Chris Paul's advice to the group discussing this, see this for example: https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-wh...eturning-play/

Also, the esteemed members of DBR trashing Kyrie's position among his peers should consider the fact that he is on the nine member Executive Committee of the player's association: https://nbpa.com/leadership

My guess is that Chris Paul engages with Kyrie just a tad bid more seriously that folks on this fan site. Then again, both Paul and Irving have a lot more at stake in these conversations than fans do.

I never implied that. But FWIW, there were about 80 players on the conference call for the first call led by Kyrie, and that number went to 40 on the next call. It would appear that while a good number of players did hear Kyrie out, this is not close to a majority opinion for the players.

[1991 duke law]

I say this with no knowledge and may be proven to be entirely incorrect. But I am doubtful that there is a large contingent of players who are in agreement with Kyrie. While he is on the executive committee, that does not mean that people agree with his position.

Again, I am mystified as to how choosing to not play basketball will advance the issues that Kyrie is hoping to advocate/advance. Perhaps – if he wants to make a real loud gesture – he commits the income that would be paid to him for playing to the cause of his preference. That would make a very very loud statement.

Kendrick Perkins was quoted as saying that Kyrie had said that he’s willing to give it all up. Kendrick told him to stop talking and just do it. “If you want to make a stance, do it or don’t talk about it.”

One thing we have to remember – which is difficult at times – is that Kyrie is a mere 28 years old. I know that he is not a kid, but he is still a very young man. I can say with certainty that the positions and statements that i would make at his age would be articulated and thought through very differently at my current age. So if we want to be more forgiving, you remind yourself that he has a lot of life left to mature and learn.

[cato]

I say this with no knowledge and may be proven to be entirely incorrect. But I am doubtful that there is a large contingent of players who are in agreement with Kyrie. While he is on the executive committee, that does not mean that people agree with his position.

Again, I am mystified as to how choosing to not play basketball will advance the issues that Kyrie is hoping to advocate/advance. Perhaps – if he wants to make a real loud gesture – he commits the income that would be paid to him for playing to the cause of his preference. That would make a very very loud statement.

Kendrick Perkins was quoted as saying that Kyrie had said that he’s willing to give it all up. Kendrick told him to stop talking and just do it. “If you want to make a stance, do it or don’t talk about it.”

One thing we have to remember – which is difficult at times – is that Kyrie is a mere 28 years old. I know that he is not a kid, but he is still a very young man. I can say with certainty that the positions and statements that i would make at his age would be articulated and thought through very differently at my current age. So if we want to be more forgiving, you remind yourself that he has a lot of life left to mature and learn.

I doubt Kyrie is in agreement with Kyrie. He strikes me as a young person with a sincere interest in understanding the world, his position in it and what he can do to improve the position of others. And he is willing to discuss these issues in public.

I have known lots of people like that, but few of them had the type of platform from which to pontificate that Kyrie has.

I raise the point of the conference calls and Kyrie's position in the player's association not to suggest that a majority of people are taking the same "position" that Kyrie is taking, but to rebut the narrative propounded on DBR that Kyrie is a looney tune that no one takes seriously. To the contrary, players are at least listening to what he has to say.

[flyingdutchdevil]

You may have a straw man there. My own position is that Duke players, even somewhat controversial ones, deserve balanced treatment on DBR. Therefore, I am happy to respond to critics by taking the initiative to point out the positives of Kyrie -- not only his world-calss hoops talent, but that he has been honored with a VP at NBPA and no shortage of demand for his services. He's maddeningly eccentric but has other positives qualities as a hoops player.

No intent here to stifle other viewpoints. Now if some Duke player was sitting in the slammer convicted of a crime, there would be no need for balance.

That's why I mentioned "where do you draw the line". Everyone's line is different. Mine is based on personality, which I assume is lower down the totem pole than some other people.

I don't like Kyrie. Pure and simple. It's not just the way he treated Boston. There are countless examples. Sadly, this latest episode won't be his last.

[1991 duke law]

I doubt Kyrie is in agreement with Kyrie. He strikes me as a young person with a sincere interest in understanding the world, his position in it and what he can do to improve the position of others. And he is willing to discuss these issues in public.

I have known lots of people like that, but few of them had the type of platform from which to pontificate that Kyrie has.

I raise the point of the conference calls and Kyrie's position in the player's association not to suggest that a majority of people are taking the same "position" that Kyrie is taking, but to rebut the narrative propounded on DBR that Kyrie is a looney tune that no one takes seriously. To the contrary, players are at least listening to what he has to say.

Well – if Kyrie is not in agreement with Kyrie, that will present an interesting discussion that he will have to have with himself.

I am not sure anyone has said he is a loony tune. Personally, I have said that I believe he is intelligent. But I think others are saying that they do not like him – which I understand in light of the past few years.

[kAzE]

I raise the point of the conference calls and Kyrie's position in the player's association not to suggest that a majority of people are taking the same "position" that Kyrie is taking, but to rebut the narrative propounded on DBR that Kyrie is a looney tune that no one takes seriously. To the contrary, players are at least listening to what he has to say.

I think that's overstating it a bit, but I personally do not take him seriously anymore. I think DBR has given Kyrie a lot of slack, honestly. I think we gave him the benefit of the doubt for a long time (flat earth theory and all), but he's proven time and time again that he doesn't deserve that anymore.

He's a guy who frequently and continually sounds off on topics that he doesn't know anything about, but still offers his thoughts as if he is an expert. Being on the NBAPA executive committee doesn't prove he has leadership abilities. As our federal government has proven, it's very possible to be in a position of leadership and be lacking in leadership qualities. Once you prove yourself to be something that many times, you have to earn back people's respect.

[Nugget]

It seems to me that both positions are plausible:

1. The Adam Silver/Lebron/Chris Paul/Dame Lillard position of: "if we play, (i) the economic impact will be a good thing and (ii) the players will have an equal or, perhaps greater, platform than they have now to advocate for positive change on BLM issues."

2. The Kyrie concern of: "if we play, it is possible that the message we want to focus on communicating won't be heard because the audience will be paying attention to the games rather than BLM issues."

I think the first position is more compelling, but Kyrie's doesn't strike me as obviously wrong or crazy.