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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrain View Post
    I care about all of the teams and all of the students. I would rather have the University filled with more than just kids who only spend their lives in the stacks. I chose Duke for a reason. It was the perfect mix of Ivy Education, big time sports, nice climate and good social life. If I only cared about the education, I would have attended Princeton. Duke has its own culture and that includes a wide variety of sports at the highest levels
    I do not think anyone said that they do not care about “all of the students“. I would suggest that it is a misguided statement to suggest that kids who attend Princeton only spend their lives in the stacks. Princeton does have division one sports. Frankly, so many of the people I know who attended Duke got rejected from Princeton, Harvard and Yale (and would have had no issue going to those schools) – so I try not to throw stones.

    While I did not attend Princeton, I have many friends who are very well rounded who did. And I feel comfortable in saying that the Ivy leagues have no lack of students who are well rounded.

    For better or for worse, and I am not passing any judgment, most students attending Duke do not share your view about caring about all teams. Because if you have attended the majority of the collegiate events outside of basketball (and I speculate that you have based on your interest), attendance is so sparse one would wonder if anyone cares at all. And for approximately a decade prior to the arrival of coach Cut - you could have said the same thing about football.

    But do not get me wrong, I love that Duke has athletics. But I would be lying if I suggested that this love extends to sports of the nature that I referenced earlier - sports that are not supported by students (unless people are camping out for fencing contests and no one is telling me).

  2. #42
    First things first...you asked a question, I gave you an answer.

    I chose Duke over Princeton and another Ivy precisely for the reasons I stated...those were my personal reasons

    As a 1990 graduate (you appear to be Duke Law 1991), all of my friends cared about the success of Duke sports. We had friends on all of the teams. Not sure if you were an undergrad as well...but if not, then our experiences were very different.

    Ivy League sports are D1 sports yes
    Just not big time sports that occur at schools in power conferences

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrain View Post
    I care about all of the teams and all of the students. I would rather have the University filled with more than just kids who only spend their lives in the stacks. I chose Duke for a reason. It was the perfect mix of Ivy Education, big time sports, nice climate and good social life. If I only cared about the education, I would have attended Princeton. Duke has its own culture and that includes a wide variety of sports at the highest levels
    There was something else you were supposed to do with your time in the stacks, IIRC . . . . ;-)

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by 1991 duke law View Post
    In the past 30 years I have closely followed Duke basketball (men and women) and football. In the past 5 years or so, men’s lacrosse. I take notice when the men’s or women’s team are succeeding (such as baseball last year and women’s soccer) but I am not particularly vested in these other sports.

    Which leads to a question for Duke grads (and not for those who did not attend Duke) - do you really care that much if Duke does not win at many of these sports - such as men’s tennis, women’s field hockey, softball and volleyball. I have recently attended women’s softball, field hockey and volleyball games. The attendance is pretty inconsequential to the point that you can say that there is very limited interest. I have not attended Duke men’s baseball, soccer, swimming or track events - but I understand that their attendance is also very limited.

    So my question is why should anyone be terribly concerned if Duke is not winning at soccer, track, softball, swimming etc? Personally, my perspective is that I would like Duke to win at everything but I do not care if they do not - and I have zero interest in devoting meaningful financial resources to these pursuits. Moreover I have little interest in having more qualified students rejected in order to accommodate student athletes who have inferior academic credentials. Now, to be clear - I believe that every applicant has to be viewed through a broader lens than just academics. So the student athlete often brings other valuable traits that may override a lower academic profile. But there is a limit to how far I would take this. I acknowledge an element of hypocrisy in allocating greater emphasis for ‘valued’ sports so that we can accept a huge academic discount for a basketball player but not for a swimmer. And arguably this may be part of the explanation why the tertiary sports do not succeed at the same level at Duke, because the school is not allocating as much of a academic discount in order to get the better athletes in those sports.

    At the end of the day, my greatest pride regarding Duke University is its academic profile. While I love Zion Williamson and I am very pleased that he attended Duke University, he cannot hold a candle to Grant Hill who represented Duke both athletically and academically. Or even Taymon Domzolsky (apologies for any spelling error) (not a athletic success but a great academic success). When Wendell Carter was considering Harvard and Duke (I have no idea how serious he was about Harvard) I took pleasure in seeing a young man who looked at Duke not simply as a path to the NBA - but as an academic institution.

    For me, Duke not having great success at these sports is not causing me any consternation. Would I like the women’s basketball team to win – yes I would (I have watched a boatload of their games). Would I be happy if the women’s soccer team won, sure. Would I prefer that the softball team win - of course. Would I like the men’s soccer, track and baseball teams to win - absolutely. But will I lose any sleep if they do not, none at all. But if Duke academic reputation significantly dropped, that would cause me some sleepless nights.
    Hey fellow Duke Law ’91 grad! I cannot say that I follow every single sport offered by Duke closely. However, I do want each team to be successful. Duke does well in the Directors’ Cup competition and I would like to see us win one year. If the stars align it could happen.

    Athletics is not antithetical to a university’s mission. Indeed, taking up the Classical Greek idea that a sound body and mind complement one another, it has traditionally been seen as part of the mission. That is why universities up until a generation or so ago typically had mandatory physical education courses for all students. Harvard offers every varsity sport recognized by the NCAA -- I believe there 37 of them-- and 25% of the students in a typical undergraduate class there are playing a sport of one kind or another.

    To focus on Duke specifically, it is true that athletes in revenue sports are often admitted with lower scores and grades than the rest of the applicant pool. However, students in nonrevenue sports are not given much if any break and must generally meet the same requirements as other admittees. They are not taking place of more academically qualified students. I know that lacrosse competes for the same recruits with the Ivy League schools and I believe that is the case generally. The only difference between our student athletes in nonrevenue sports and theirs is that ours actually win stuff on a regular basis.

    As for the revenue sports, Duke does not admit any prospective student athlete unless it is certain that he or she can do the coursework. Indeed, despite the more rigorous academics of Duke, our basketball and football teams typically have the highest graduation and APR rates in the conference and the nation as well. Most years football players graduate at a higher rate than the general student population at Duke. (It is usually something like 98% versus 97%, but it is still an achievement.) Revenue sports are also well represented on ACC All Academic teams. Indeed, football has had the lead the Conference with All ACC Academic team selections for the last 11 years.

    I will root hard for Duke sports in everything and it is not a guilty pleasure.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrain View Post
    As for field hockey being hit or miss
    They were ranked 8th in the country this year
    Prior to this year, 6 consecutive trips to the Elite 8
    Sounds like a lot of hits to me
    As an Iron Duke I intend to eventually conribute to Field Hockey program. The wife of pop star Ed Sheeran played 1 year at Duke. Graduate transfer from the UK.
    They are close to the top,unfortunately UNC is the defending NCAA champions.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DU82 View Post
    I'd expect her next job is at ESPN. (As long as she doesn't work with Debbie Antonelli, of course.) There are worse ex-coaches on there doing games.

    Will never happen.

    During one of Duke's blowout losses to UConn (think it was the 2011-12 or 2012-13 season), McCallie went after ESPN's Beth Mowins after Mowins made a few jokes about Duke's performance while getting blown out by 30+ points. McCallie went up to Mowins at the next game that Mowins called and proceeded to yell at and berate her.

    On multiple occasions (July 2016 and May 2018), she has blamed and attacked sports reporters for The Chronicle regrading blowback from her statements. She denied making some statements while claiming others were taken out of context. One of the student reporters who conducted an interview with her posted the entire audio recording to Twitter to defend himself from her attacks.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CamrnCrz1974 View Post
    Will never happen.

    During one of Duke's blowout losses to UConn (think it was the 2011-12 or 2012-13 season), McCallie went after ESPN's Beth Mowins after Mowins made a few jokes about Duke's performance while getting blown out by 30+ points. McCallie went up to Mowins at the next game that Mowins called and proceeded to yell at and berate her.

    On multiple occasions (July 2016 and May 2018), she has blamed and attacked sports reporters for The Chronicle regrading blowback from her statements. She denied making some statements while claiming others were taken out of context. One of the student reporters who conducted an interview with her posted the entire audio recording to Twitter to defend himself from her attacks.
    Gaudio and Greenberg has similar histories, yet seem to be flourishing at ESPN.

  8. #48
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    What if any influence will Heather Ryan have on the McCallie decision and/or replacement? I don't know if Jackie Silar was a supporter or not but for some reason its hard to believe Silar liked the idea of so many young women transferring out of her beloved school.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukejim1 View Post
    What if any influence will Heather Ryan have on the McCallie decision and/or replacement? I don't know if Jackie Silar was a supporter or not but for some reason its hard to believe Silar liked the idea of so many young women transferring out of her beloved school.
    i imagine like any hiring decision, input and interviews will come from a variety of people. I imagine as associate athletic director and senior woman administrator, she would be one of them...especially given the WBB position represents the most prominent woman in the department.
    It's being reported that due to coronavirus fears, Harvard has asked students not to return from spring break, and for classes to be held online.

    Not to be outdone, UNC told students to stop coming to class 27 years ago under Dean Smith.

  10. #50
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    One thing I fear is that with all the pressure now on athletic dept. revenue, Kevin White will probably choose to hire on the cheap...in which case he's going to have to be very savvy in selecting a younger replacement. You never know, you could get a Coach K or you could get a Bucky Waters.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    One thing I fear is that with all the pressure now on athletic dept. revenue, Kevin White will probably choose to hire on the cheap...in which case he's going to have to be very savvy in selecting a younger replacement. You never know, you could get a Coach K or you could get a Bucky Waters.
    I think it's a new world. If we greatly reduce salaries for some HC positions, I suspect that many other schools will do the same thing, affecting the market price for, say, WBB head coaches. I know I'm living in the Dark Ages -- well, actually, quarantine -- but $1.3 million for Coach P seemed ridiculous at the time and seems ludicrous now.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I think it's a new world. If we greatly reduce salaries for some HC positions, I suspect that many other schools will do the same thing, affecting the market price for, say, WBB head coaches. I know I'm living in the Dark Ages -- well, actually, quarantine -- but $1.3 million for Coach P seemed ridiculous at the time and seems ludicrous now.
    I'd expect the new salary to be far more in line with what UNC is paying banghart (650k) than anywhere near what P is making today.
    It's being reported that due to coronavirus fears, Harvard has asked students not to return from spring break, and for classes to be held online.

    Not to be outdone, UNC told students to stop coming to class 27 years ago under Dean Smith.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    I'd expect the new salary to be far more in line with what UNC is paying banghart (650k) than anywhere near what P is making today.
    Had Kevin White donned his thinking cap, Banghart could well have been our coach. But no...

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Had Kevin White donned his thinking cap, Banghart could well have been our coach. But no...
    they had a rough finish. I'll wait a couple years before declaring missing her a bad move.



    In any case, I imagine any next hire will be of a similar vein, rather than a national level "star" for 3 reasons:

    1) there aren't really any available. Texas got Vic Schaefer, but he is also a texas native. I suppose it's possible, but I can't imagine any of the other coaches at that level moving, and certainly none of them are duke people
    2) duke tried to go the proven-star route when they hired P...and, well, here we are. That doesn't mean it is the wrong choice in general, or even that it was the wrong choice then...but the risk is huge relative to the potential payoff, and it didn't payoff in our case, and I can't imagine we're going to go to the ATM to try to win back our losses on the craps table.
    3) with the current uncertainty, and the decline in attendance, I can't imagine the financials for the WBB program are particularly rosy, or certainly not enough to spend that kind of cash.
    It's being reported that due to coronavirus fears, Harvard has asked students not to return from spring break, and for classes to be held online.

    Not to be outdone, UNC told students to stop coming to class 27 years ago under Dean Smith.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Had Kevin White donned his thinking cap, Banghart could well have been our coach. But no...
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    they had a rough finish. I'll wait a couple years before declaring missing her a bad move.
    Count me in uh_no's camp. We'll see how the next couple of seasons play out for Banghart, but that was an ugly one to start with. (Which of course made me smile lots, especially for two particular games. )
    Last edited by CameronBornAndBred; 06-02-2020 at 02:06 PM.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  16. #56
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    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    In other news, the 2021 #3 recruit (from Wilmington) officially committed to South Carolina this weekend (it had been rumored). She was the only senior in the ESPN100 who had Duke under consideration. Not all have a list of schools under consideration, but I'm not even hearing rumors of any of them being interested in Duke (though I'm not connected, maybe Jim or someone else has info).

    10 of the top 12 are already taken. #1 is free, and she's supposedly a once in a decade talent, but I can't imagine we're in the running. The WBB talent pool is just not that deep, a program needs to average a top-10 recruit every year to even think about the Final Four let alone a Championship.

    There is hope, one spectacular class would lead to more recruiting success and things could turn around quickly. But that doesn't appear to be in Duke's near future.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Count me in uh_no's camp. We'll see how the next couple of seasons play out for Banghart, but that was an ugly one to start with. (Which of course made me smile lots, especially for two particular games. )
    I get your combined point, but I think Banghart was a much better fit for Duke, a true academic institution, than the place she ended up.

  18. #58
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    Even with Duke's academic reputation it's very, very difficult to recruit top-tier talent if they don't know who's going to be coaching them down the road.

    It's almost like a Catch-22 situation. Without an extension, she can't recruit the kind of talent she needs to win the games she needs to win to get an extension.

    And around and around we go.

    Bucky Waters faced this dilemma. He had one more year left on his five-year contract in the fall of 1973 when he approached AD Carl James about an extension. James declined and Waters quit a few days before the beginning of practice.

    It's not a good place to be in.

  19. #59
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    One name I've thought about for several years as a possible replacement is Jennie Baranczyk of Drake. Proven winner at a mid-major conference, 38 years of age, her teams play an up-tempo exciting on offense... usually among the national leaders in PPG. Not sure of any coach at a current P5 team that is a realistic choice... unless its poaching Katie Meier from Miami.

  20. #60
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    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by triaddukefan View Post
    One name I've thought about for several years as a possible replacement is Jennie Baranczyk of Drake. Proven winner at a mid-major conference, 38 years of age, her teams play an up-tempo exciting on offense... usually among the national leaders in PPG. Not sure of any coach at a current P5 team that is a realistic choice... unless its poaching Katie Meier from Miami.
    I know she is a Dukie and all, but Katie has not had the kind of success you're looking for in 15 years at Miami. Has never made it out of the first weekend of the NCAAs. Was 15-15 this year.

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