I rest my case! GREAT JOB Marty!

[imagepro]

I'f you don't know what I'm talking about, you haven't been reading DBR. I have said all year long that Marty is a player. I even said he could be a star. I was criticized, laughed at, called a troll and humiliated.

Tonight he HAD to play, and with limited playing time scores 14. Didn't miss a field goal, and was 2-2 from the line. Also if you didn't notice, he played great defense. Had it not been for GHs suspension, you all know he would not have had the opportunity to show what he is capable of.

Now, if you argue with me this time, you'd argue with a stop sign.

I say GREAT JOB Marty Pocious!

[trinitydevil]

Great game from Marty!! A career game for him at this point. AND, in the ACC tournament. He had to play tonight too. No question.

Makes you wonder if he could have filled in the rotation more. No, doesn't make you wonder. Pretty much soldifies he could have.

Marty has a scorers mentality. And the moves to get the points. If you are aggressvie to the basket you will get some turnovers.

Great game Marty.

[dukie8]

<Edit by Mods: Destructively Negative>

[imagepro]

Yea- it was "brilliant" wasn't it 8! Scores 8 in the first half, sits for the first 8 minutes of the 2nd. Scores instantly TWICE when he returned. Oh well, I'm stupid though....

[Highlander]

Second that. Marty gave us huge minutes off the bench and made some great shots. It was an all around great game for him. On offense, this was only the third time all year we've broken 80 points

Unfortunately we were unable to stop State in the second half, and that more than anything was the reason we lost. They were 14-18 at one point. In the Overtime, I think they scored on every single possession (15 points in 5 minutes). Atsur simply couldn't miss, and when he wasn't shooting he was slicing up our interior defense. Nelson and McClure were asked to guard guys who were a lot bigger than they were, and as a result, both fouled out.

Having Henderson certainly would have helped, as our defense just got absolutely shredded tonight.

[Duke05]

I thought Marty played very impressive ball today. But with all due respect, imagepro, I'm not sure it's appropriate to gloat.

a) You've seen Marty play for less than two or three total hours over two years. The Duke coaching staff has watched Marty play for some two or three hundred hours this year alone.
b) This was one game. I'm not willing to conclude that the coaching staff has completely missed the boat on Marty based on one game against an opponent playing one particular defense that has not really seen any game tape of Marty.
c) Marty has been playing more in recent games. Granted, this was not anywhere near what he played tonight, but the coaching staff had definitely been showing him signs of confidence. Perhaps the coaches have developed him well.
d) I apologize if this wasn't an argument you were using, but several on the old board argued that players couldn't be ready to perform in big games without getting experience during the regular season. I think Marty's game tonight provides some evidence against that. (Again, as with your argument, this is only a sample size of one, so it doesn't prove much)
e) And actually, the real reason I'm posting is because we just suffered a very painful loss. And I'm a bit upset that you've taken this opportunity to gloat about winning an argument. I'll get over it -- and you're entitled to feeling vindicated. But right now, I don't feel so bad calling you out for it.

[dukie8]

<Edited by Mods: Destructively Negative>

[imagepro]

I'm NOT gloating. I'm MAD. He should have been playing all year. Sorry you interpret my disappointment as GLOATING. But you are WAY off 05!

OK, your points are made, but MANY of us disagree with you. You ultimately may be right. But you can't do what Marty did tonight without a LOT of talent. Will you disagree with that? He used left hand TWICE. I may be wrong, but he sure showed a LOT of people something tonight. <Edited by Mods: No insulting other posters>

[mpj96]

Congratulations to Marty on a great game. Good luck to the team in the big dance.

[BlueDevilBaby]

Marty was great. Why did Coach K take him out after the three point play? Go with the hot hand.

[Duke05]

I'm NOT gloating. I'm MAD. He should have been playing all year. Sorry you interpret my disappointment as GLOATING. But you are WAY off 05!

OK, your points are made, but MANY of us disagree with you. You ultimately may be right. But you can't do what Marty did tonight without a LOT of talent. Will you disagree with that? He used left hand TWICE. I may be wrong, but he sure showed a LOT of people something tonight. Thank not? Just read the boards! GLOATING??? Please man.Whatever...

Probably shouldn't reply, since the loss is still messing with my head, but here goes:
a) I may be wrong, but I lurk here obsessively, and I don't think anyone thought Marty was untalented. So yes, I agree -- Marty is very talented. That doesn't mean he should have been playing all year. (More explicitly: all our scholarship players are quite talented, and that alone doesn't -- and shouldn't -- merit playing time.)
b) Since I didn't state my position, I think you're wrong in saying that many disagree with me; as an armchair coach, I've actually wanted Marty in a lot more than he has been. This is for several reasons: I don't know much about the intricacies of basketball; in particular, I really like watching flashy offensive plays; when he's been in games, he's looked good on both O and D to my untrained eyes. And yet he hasn't played. So I support the coaching staff because the conspiracy theory that they're holding him down seems a lot less plausible than the theory that I don't know as much as the coaches.
c) I can't ultimately be proven right; my position is that the coaches didn't mess up by not playing Marty up until this point. I expect Marty to contribute more and more as time goes on, and I sincerely hope that I'm not "proven right" by his return to the bench. I suspect (and hope), given Marty's gradually increasing minutes, that his rumored defensive problems are being resolved.
d) I'm sorry I thought you were gloating. But I reread your post, and I don't think I made an unreasonable assumption. (Feel free to reread it yourself.) It rubbed me the wrong way. This exchange still rubs me the wrong way, particularly since I've always liked Marty. Again, I'm not going to tell you you can't gloat or be mad or whatever it is your first post was, but I think you're flaunting a premature victory in an argument that, frankly, wasn't based on much evidence to begin with.

I'm sorry I sound like a Coach K apologist here. (I'm more than happy to rant and rave about the slowdown offense, since it just doesn't make mathematical sense to me in a lot of situations.) But I really don't think it makes sense to argue that Marty should have been playing more. Is it possible that your eye for effectiveness on a basketball court is so much better attuned than our coaches' that you can see what they can't in a hundredth of the time? Sure. I'll grant you that possibility. But don't pretend that it's so blatantly obvious that Marty should have been playing that only idiots and Coach K can't see it.

You know what happened today, right? We lost while we replaced Gerald Henderson's minutes with Marty Pocius's. Does that make Marty a worse player than Gerald? Of course not. It's just one game. But neither does this one performance mean he should have been taking minutes away earlier. And maybe -- just maybe -- our team was actually better at winning games with Marty off the floor.

[trinitydevil]

Marty was also recruited by Kansas, Utah, Texas, Arizona as well as Duke. And had official visits to Arizona and Kansas. K, Roy, Majerus, Lute, and Barnes probably know a player when they see one.

How many first round draft picks, conference championships, ncaa championships, and wins have they produced.

A former team captain told me personally he needs more playing time. I have witnesses. No denying that fact.

Marty wasn't an overlooked recruit.

Great game Marty. Congratulations!!

[fogey]

Marty's speed and quickness are UNMATCHED on this squad, and his aggressiveness is on a par with DeMarcus. He also has actual offensive skills- good shooting touch and coordinated moves on drives. As I posted after the UNC debacle, he could have helped then by providing an offensive lift and giving starters valuable minutes to catch a breath. His performance tonight was not a surprise.

[Jumbo]

I'f you don't know what I'm talking about, you haven't been reading DBR. I have said all year long that Marty is a player. I even said he could be a star. I was criticized, laughed at, called a troll and humiliated.

Tonight he HAD to play, and with limited playing time scores 14. Didn't miss a field goal, and was 2-2 from the line. Also if you didn't notice, he played great defense. Had it not been for GHs suspension, you all know he would not have had the opportunity to show what he is capable of.

Now, if you argue with me this time, you'd argue with a stop sign.

I say GREAT JOB Marty Pocious!

ImagePro,
I'm going to have to ask you to calm down. Again.
Let me put this another way: I rest my case too. All year, you've been saying that Pocius gets pulled at the slightest mistake. Well,, he came into the game for Scheyer early, immediately drove, and didn't look when he was passing, throwing it right into the arms of a State player. He came out of the game a couple of minutes after. Then he got back into the game later in the first half. The first time he touched the ball -- at the 6:22 mark -- he did the exact same thing, then fouled the guy for good measure, sending him to the line for a one-and-one. This is the time Coach K supposedly would "yank" him, right? Guess not. Marty stayed out there. And we all know what happened next -- a couple of threes, a drive, and then an appearance for almost the entirety of the last 10 minutes of the second half too.

Marty played fantastically tonight. And he made mistakes early and recovered from them. So, this disputes your notion that K is unwilling to allow him to make the slightest mistake. Please consider that.

Finally, no one called you a troll, criticized you or laughed at you for simply suggesting Pocius should play more. People have argued with you, but saying "Marty is a player" didn't lead to any of it. I think most people like Marty and hope he does well. He's got four other very good perimeter players ahead of him; it's a shame he's not a couple of inches taller, because Duke could certainly use some help at the 4 position right now. But I don't think it's appropriate to gloat like you're doing after one game. And I don't think you're fairly characterizing what others have said, nor what you have said in the past.

Anyway, again, I loved watching Marty's offense tonight. And clearly his confidence wasn't shaken one bit by whatever "yankings" happened earlier in the year, despite some speculation to that effect. But I'll say one other thing -- the entire team played awful defense, and that includes Marty. Defense is a team thing, and the whole team takes the blame for allowing NC State to shoot 60.8% from the field.

[Troublemaker]

Marty did a great job. I love him and I think he'll get about 15 min/gm starting next season. I hope to see him for at least that long the rest of this season as well.

[imagepro]

OH Jumbo- don't take me so seriously!

[Jumbo]

Marty was great. Why did Coach K take him out after the three point play? Go with the hot hand.

He was going offense/defense there. He had four guards in when Marty scored; he pulled him after the FT for Lance to help guard NCSU's two bigs. Of course, that didn't work. But Marty was back in for offense at the next dead ball.

[Fish80]

No argument here that Marty had a good offensive game, and we needed it. I'm pleased for Marty, but very bummed that we lost. Damn.

imagepro, i don't know what you think you have proved, but i do agree that Marty looked good on offense

Josh also looked good late in the second half. His jam was awesome! But alas, not enough.

DeMarcus also had a great game, all around.

"It's the defense, stupid." i'm not calling anyone stupid. i'm just mad.

[elvis14]

I was really happy to see Marty step up tonight. Like Imagepro, I'm of the opinion that Marty has been under used. My argument for that is that we have had players very fatigued at the end of games while Marty rides the pine. I wouldn't post a bunch of I told you so BS, I'm just really happy to see Marty get his chance and to rise to the occasion.

It's just a little something positive to take away from another frustrating loss.

[calltheobvious]

I'm NOT gloating. I'm MAD. He should have been playing all year. Sorry you interpret my disappointment as GLOATING. But you are WAY off 05!

OK, your points are made, but MANY of us disagree with you. You ultimately may be right. But you can't do what Marty did tonight without a LOT of talent. Will you disagree with that? He used left hand TWICE. I may be wrong, but he sure showed a LOT of people something tonight. <Edited by Mods: No insulting other posters>

Nice strawman. No one here has ever argued that Marty is untalented, just that he turns the ball over waaaay too often given his production level, and that he has a tendency to get lost on defense. Tonight's performance doesn't change history. Marty's performance, while unexpected, didn't shock the staff tonight. They've never doubted his talent, only his ability to limit his turnovers, demonstrate good shot selection, and play solid team defense. That tonight he played his best offensive game at Duke does not erase the data that have been accumulated on him.

I'm still interested to know whose minutes you want Marty to take. Tonight he took Gerald's (suspension) and DeMarcus's (after fouling out). You on board for keeping Marty's minutes next Thursday or Friday where they were tonight? You think he's hitting all of his jumpers and finishing all of his drives for the rest of his career?

If I flip a coin five times in a row and it comes up heads each time, would you think that I'm a really talented coin-flipper and that it would be wise for you to begin laying 6:5 on me flipping heads from here on out?