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  1. #1

    ESPN's Top 10 players in NBA history


  2. #2
    Meh!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bullettoothtony View Post
    My immediate reaction is that I’d knock Kobe off the list. And no, Oscar Robinson, I’m not necessarily giving you his spot.

    From the modern era, does Tim Duncan deserve inclusion over Kevin Durant? Before he got insured, one could argue KD was better then LBJ or Steph.
    Carolina delenda est

  4. #4

    Hmm, no Duke

    Well, at least not yet.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by bullettoothtony View Post
    Without looking at the link, I would offer the beginnings of my analysis.

    (A) Before the Dream Team
    (B) The Dream Team
    (C) After the D.T.

    Kindly,
    Sage
    'Second installment later'
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Without looking at the link, I would offer the beginnings of my analysis.

    (A) Before the Dream Team
    (B) The Dream Team
    (C) After the D.T.

    Kindly,
    Sage
    'Second installment later'
    Did a Laker's homer make the list? I'd drop Shaq and Kobe from the top ten.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    Did a Laker's homer make the list? I'd drop Shaq and Kobe from the top ten.
    Shaq is overrated. He was a beast. But not a top player.

  8. #8
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    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Shaq is overrated. He was a beast. But not a top player.
    I was pleased to see the article at least dip its toe into the difference between the best player, the greatest player, and the most dominant in his prime (peak performance) player, which are three different things, IMO.

    To your critique above, I think Shaw has a case for Top 3 most dominant in his prime players but a much diminished case for best player and greatest player.

    Kobe wouldn't sniff my Top 10 most dominant players in his prime designation but does sneak into my best and greatest player discussions.

    Also, what would it take for general agreement to coalesce on LBJ > MJ?

    For me, first things first, it would have taken those 2 extra lost titles in Miami. I'm not sure if he can recover from that. After that, GS ascended, changed the how the game was played, and LBJ's window closed but for that incredible 3-1 comeback, which may be the single best finals achievement and greatest upset in NBA history.

    If LBJ wants to move the needle on the LBJ v. MJ discussion, I think he needs to win 1 in LA (COVID may have intervened on MJ's behalf) and capture the NBA all-time leading scoring record enter the Top 5 all-time assist leaders, both of which are achievable.
    Last edited by bundabergdevil; 05-13-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by bullettoothtony View Post
    OK, I'll give you Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, L. James and Jordan. After that, I would play well, why not...?

    O. Robertson
    Barkley
    Malone
    D. Robinson
    J. Erving (as in Dr.)
    M. Malone (uh, Moses -- 3x MVP)

    I like the Lakers and used to live in LA, but Shaq and Kobe plus Magic and Kareem (and Wilt)? Too much Hollywood for me.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    High Point
    Anyone who thinks Russell was better than Chamberlain just needs to quit posting. You're making a fool of yourself.

  11. #11
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    OK, I'll give you Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, L. James and Jordan. After that, I would play well, why not...?

    O. Robertson
    Barkley
    Malone
    D. Robinson
    J. Erving (as in Dr.)
    M. Malone (uh, Moses -- 3x MVP)

    I like the Lakers and used to live in LA, but Shaq and Kobe plus Magic and Kareem (and Wilt)? Too much Hollywood for me.
    Any by the way, shouldn't there be someone shorter than 6-6 (Jordan) on the top-ten list? Candidates in reverse chronological order would seem to be Curry, Paul, Nash, Iverson, Stockton, Isiah T., West, and Cousy.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  12. #12
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    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeDevil View Post
    Anyone who thinks Russell was better than Chamberlain just needs to quit posting. You're making a fool of yourself.
    Wilt clearly wins the individual statistics comparison. But Russell won the games.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Shaq is overrated. He was a beast. But not a top player.
    In today's faster paced NBA, he might not be a top player.

    But in his era...the moniker "most dominant ever" was quite justified. I've never seen a player like him ever since. The best thing you can do to stop him is to foul him, and even with his woeful FT shooting percentage that's still a point per possession.

    Plus, he won four championships as one of the team's top two best players. Shaq should be up there.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Sticking to just the top 10.

    - Shaq should be ahead of Kobe, always.

    - Kobe might not be top 10 (11th to 15th).

    - Wilt over Bird?!?!? Fairly certain general consensus is the top 5 (no order) usually includes Jordan, Bird, LeBron, Magic, and Kareem.


    Ps: I know I said I was sticking to top10 but what are they thinking put Giannis that high up.?!?!? Way too early.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking

  15. #15
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    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Wilt clearly wins the individual statistics comparison. But Russell won the games.
    and generally had much better teammates

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by JNort View Post
    Sticking to just the top 10.

    - Shaq should be ahead of Kobe, always.

    - Kobe might not be top 10 (11th to 15th).

    - Wilt over Bird?!?!? Fairly certain general consensus is the top 5 (no order) usually includes Jordan, Bird, LeBron, Magic, and Kareem.


    Ps: I know I said I was sticking to top10 but what are they thinking put Giannis that high up.?!?!? Way too early.
    From what I've read (and discussed), Wilt is usually consensus top 5. Then again, the consensus top 10 active NBA players usually includes ~25 players.

    For me, the 5 players who need to be in the top 5 are Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Wilt, and Russell. I'd probably put Bird and Magic in the top 10. Then I'd have to go Timmy D, the greatest PF in the game. That leaves 2 players to round out the top 10.

    So many options, but I'd probably add Karl Malone (personal bias, and he's the 2nd highest scorer of all time) and Shaq.

    The biggest issue I have with the top 10 is the inclusion of Kobe and the order.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Nashville
    Before reading the article I made my list, and I'm pretty amazed to say we matched on 9 of 10. The only difference was that I included the Big O over Shaq, and I think I can defend that one. Also, MJ is the best ever, and I am surprised it's a debate. MJ was inevitable. Lebron will put on an amazing show but his team will still lose.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by brlftz View Post
    Before reading the article I made my list, and I'm pretty amazed to say we matched on 9 of 10. The only difference was that I included the Big O over Shaq, and I think I can defend that one. Also, MJ is the best ever, and I am surprised it's a debate. MJ was inevitable. Lebron will put on an amazing show but his team will still lose.
    I sadly agree with you, but let's remember MJ went to UNC and this is a Duke board.

    It's like going to IC and asking if Tatum, Ingram, Kyrie, and Zion are All-Stars. They will clearly say no and argue Coby White is a top 5 NBA player...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by brlftz View Post
    Before reading the article I made my list, and I'm pretty amazed to say we matched on 9 of 10. The only difference was that I included the Big O over Shaq, and I think I can defend that one. Also, MJ is the best ever, and I am surprised it's a debate. MJ was inevitable. Lebron will put on an amazing show but his team will still lose.
    The reason that I put Lebron over MJ is because of Kobe. People on this board are ranking Kobe out of the top 10. Kobe was pretty much exactly MJ just a generation later. There isn't a better test of how one player would play in the next generation. Kobe did everything Jordan did and wasn't the best of his generation. Jordan was the missing link. He created the evolution to the modern, more athletic player. Lebron has mastered it. Lebron can do anything Jordan could do (I'd argue he's a much better passer and ball handler) and he does it with an addition 3 inches and 50 lbs. I'll give you one more thought; who was guarding MJ on the iconic last shot against Cleveland? Craig Ehlo. Do you think Ehlo is even in the game during that possession if it was the modern NBA? On more; Jordan's main rival early in his career for best perimeter player was Clyde Drexler. Go look at old game film. Clyde could barely dribble without looking at the ball.

    footnote: I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but my generation has made MJ into a mythical figure. Take away Nike, "Like Mike", and Space Jam and I think we remember him as the most dominate player of his generation and a top ten player.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by brlftz View Post
    Before reading the article I made my list, and I'm pretty amazed to say we matched on 9 of 10. The only difference was that I included the Big O over Shaq, and I think I can defend that one. Also, MJ is the best ever, and I am surprised it's a debate. MJ was inevitable. Lebron will put on an amazing show but his team will still lose.
    What was self-illuminating was as I was reading the list, LeBron at #2 seems strangely out of place. It jumped out that he "only" has 3 championships, while everyone else on the list had more (except Wilt with 2 and Bird with 3). It made me wonder why so many (including me) put LeBron at #2. Is it recency bias? Is it the eye test? Why wouldn't someone like Kareem, who was also dominant in his time and has twice as many championships, be rated higher?

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