I both somewhat agree with you while ultimately disagreeing. These lists are not for "Best Peak Player," and so Larry's debilitating back injury (and the bone spurs in his heels) that lowered his effectiveness for the last third of his already somewhat short career unfortunately moves him down the GOAT lists, appropriately, imo. One of my favorite basketball analysts Ben Taylor actually puts Larry's overall career outside the top 10 at #11: https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the...n-nba-history/
Now with that said, Peak Larry was amazing as you mentioned. He won 3 MVPs in a row ('84, '85, '86)* and was an excellent team defender to go with his scoring, passing, and shooting ability. Had some of the best basketball instincts ever. I remember it the same way as you do, that until the injuries took a toll, Larry was regarded as better than Magic.
* For those that are young, think about how dominant he must've been in the mid-80s to win 3 MVPs in a row, something neither MJ nor Lebron did.
Well, and that's what makes lists like these such perfect sportstalk fodder.
No one ever agrees on the criteria. Most trophies? Most impressive stats? Most wins? Best for longest? Most spectacular to watch? Best teammate? Most physically impressive?
And that's setting aside the "what would player X do if they played in player Y's league" trying to compare across eras.
It's completely insane discussion that has no right or wrong answers. Except mine, of course.
1) LeBron
2) Kareem
3) MJ
Anyway, all of this is what also makes it perfect for discussion during what is literally the longest off-season from Duke basketball any of us have endured. And, it's dovetailed with the biggest sports drought of our lifetimes.
So sure. Let's break down Russell/Wilt.
That’s fine. But Bird could also have won the MVP in 83, 87, and 88 (in addition to his winning it in 84, 85, and 86). Basically, for nine straight seasons he was absolutely brilliant — from his rookie year in 79-80 through the 87-88 season. It was near the beginning of the ill-fated 88-89 season that the first of several debilitating injuries robbed him, and all sports fans, of seeing what would almost surely have been two decades of sustained greatness (though he did come back to have excellent seasons even after major injuries) from the greatest basketball player of his generation. Instead, we only got one (decade).
There are a million videos on the subject, but I found this one particularly compelling: https://youtu.be/tl3mR6eoEa8
If I'm not mistaken, Larry's best statistical year was the year after he won the MVP last time. I've watched a ton of Larry Bird stuff on YouTube lately. I'm convinced he could have scored 40 any night he wanted to. The 60 point night might be the most amazing scoring display ever. Trainer's lap? You gotta be kidding me
Repeat after me: should HAVE, should HAVE, should HAVE, should HAVE...keep repeating until it is internalized. The contraction is "should've." The letters H and A have been removed, but the word ends with VE. When we speak the contacted form, it SOUNDS like "should of," a little bit anyway, but that doesn't make it ok to WRITE "should of" when you mean to say "should have."
Man, I'm glad I got that off my chest. Sorry to unload on you, LasVegas, you are certainly not the only person who does this. Yes, I'm annoying in a "grammar police" or "spelling police" sort of way, but I can't help it. And this particular mistake is probably the one that bothers me the most.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
"We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
The one player I liked to watch play more than any of the 10 named by ESPN, was Pistol Pete. He was a fantastic player and could do things with a basketball only Bob Cousy could do. Pistol Pete played in several NBA All star games and led the league in scoring one season. He and DT are my favorite non-Duke players.
GoDuke!
You mean the Celtics won the games thanks to 10 future Hall of Famers, Wilt was in a different class compared to Russell its not really even close. His team was clearly superior but the Reg. Season was 57-38 in those games Wilt averaged 31-28-4 on 49% FG while Russell averaged 14-23-4 on 37% FG and was held to single digit in 25 of the games. Then in the Playoffs it was onlyl 29-20 advantage to Russell and the Celtics but Wilt was still superior head to head 26-28-5 on 51% FG while Russell was at 14-25-5 on 41% FG. They met eight times in the playoffs, and Celtics won seven of those series, including four Game 7s by a grand total of nine points.
I think it’s sheer folly to assess players primarily by looking at individual stats in a team start, particularly from an era in which you didn’t even watch these games or these players.
I don’t mean to give you a hard time DevinFan84, but I just don’t understand why people keep doing this,