Meh!
Meh!
My immediate reaction is that I’d knock Kobe off the list. And no, Oscar Robinson, I’m not necessarily giving you his spot.
From the modern era, does Tim Duncan deserve inclusion over Kevin Durant? Before he got insured, one could argue KD was better then LBJ or Steph.
Carolina delenda est
Well, at least not yet.
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
I was pleased to see the article at least dip its toe into the difference between the best player, the greatest player, and the most dominant in his prime (peak performance) player, which are three different things, IMO.
To your critique above, I think Shaw has a case for Top 3 most dominant in his prime players but a much diminished case for best player and greatest player.
Kobe wouldn't sniff my Top 10 most dominant players in his prime designation but does sneak into my best and greatest player discussions.
Also, what would it take for general agreement to coalesce on LBJ > MJ?
For me, first things first, it would have taken those 2 extra lost titles in Miami. I'm not sure if he can recover from that. After that, GS ascended, changed the how the game was played, and LBJ's window closed but for that incredible 3-1 comeback, which may be the single best finals achievement and greatest upset in NBA history.
If LBJ wants to move the needle on the LBJ v. MJ discussion, I think he needs to win 1 in LA (COVID may have intervened on MJ's behalf) and capture the NBA all-time leading scoring record enter the Top 5 all-time assist leaders, both of which are achievable.
Last edited by bundabergdevil; 05-13-2020 at 10:29 PM.
OK, I'll give you Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, L. James and Jordan. After that, I would play well, why not...?
O. Robertson
Barkley
Malone
D. Robinson
J. Erving (as in Dr.)
M. Malone (uh, Moses -- 3x MVP)
I like the Lakers and used to live in LA, but Shaq and Kobe plus Magic and Kareem (and Wilt)? Too much Hollywood for me.
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
Anyone who thinks Russell was better than Chamberlain just needs to quit posting. You're making a fool of yourself.
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013
In today's faster paced NBA, he might not be a top player.
But in his era...the moniker "most dominant ever" was quite justified. I've never seen a player like him ever since. The best thing you can do to stop him is to foul him, and even with his woeful FT shooting percentage that's still a point per possession.
Plus, he won four championships as one of the team's top two best players. Shaq should be up there.
Sticking to just the top 10.
- Shaq should be ahead of Kobe, always.
- Kobe might not be top 10 (11th to 15th).
- Wilt over Bird?!?!? Fairly certain general consensus is the top 5 (no order) usually includes Jordan, Bird, LeBron, Magic, and Kareem.
Ps: I know I said I was sticking to top10 but what are they thinking put Giannis that high up.?!?!? Way too early.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge" -Stephen Hawking
From what I've read (and discussed), Wilt is usually consensus top 5. Then again, the consensus top 10 active NBA players usually includes ~25 players.
For me, the 5 players who need to be in the top 5 are Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Wilt, and Russell. I'd probably put Bird and Magic in the top 10. Then I'd have to go Timmy D, the greatest PF in the game. That leaves 2 players to round out the top 10.
So many options, but I'd probably add Karl Malone (personal bias, and he's the 2nd highest scorer of all time) and Shaq.
The biggest issue I have with the top 10 is the inclusion of Kobe and the order.
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill
President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club
Before reading the article I made my list, and I'm pretty amazed to say we matched on 9 of 10. The only difference was that I included the Big O over Shaq, and I think I can defend that one. Also, MJ is the best ever, and I am surprised it's a debate. MJ was inevitable. Lebron will put on an amazing show but his team will still lose.
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill
President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club
The reason that I put Lebron over MJ is because of Kobe. People on this board are ranking Kobe out of the top 10. Kobe was pretty much exactly MJ just a generation later. There isn't a better test of how one player would play in the next generation. Kobe did everything Jordan did and wasn't the best of his generation. Jordan was the missing link. He created the evolution to the modern, more athletic player. Lebron has mastered it. Lebron can do anything Jordan could do (I'd argue he's a much better passer and ball handler) and he does it with an addition 3 inches and 50 lbs. I'll give you one more thought; who was guarding MJ on the iconic last shot against Cleveland? Craig Ehlo. Do you think Ehlo is even in the game during that possession if it was the modern NBA? On more; Jordan's main rival early in his career for best perimeter player was Clyde Drexler. Go look at old game film. Clyde could barely dribble without looking at the ball.
footnote: I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but my generation has made MJ into a mythical figure. Take away Nike, "Like Mike", and Space Jam and I think we remember him as the most dominate player of his generation and a top ten player.
What was self-illuminating was as I was reading the list, LeBron at #2 seems strangely out of place. It jumped out that he "only" has 3 championships, while everyone else on the list had more (except Wilt with 2 and Bird with 3). It made me wonder why so many (including me) put LeBron at #2. Is it recency bias? Is it the eye test? Why wouldn't someone like Kareem, who was also dominant in his time and has twice as many championships, be rated higher?