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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill

    A request for admission is not an allegation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JetpackJesus View Post
    Requests for Admission are a standard part of written discovery (along with interrogatories and document production requests) in civil litigation. You would not see these in criminal cases, which is why you haven't seen it on Law & Order.

    The most common use of RFAs is authentication of documents or other evidence. Parties must establish that every piece of evidence is authentic before it can be admitted into evidence. You would do that by witness testimony at trial, but it's boring for the jury and gets repetitive fast (most trials will involve hundreds of exhibits). RFAs usually come right at the close of discovery (the timing can vary, but for reference, discovery closes 60 days before trial in my jurisdiction), so the parties don't have to authenticate via witness testimony and piss off the judge and the jury. They can also been done for specific facts that aren't in dispute. You have to have a valid reason to deny a request. You cannot deny one just because it's unfavorable to your case. The court will sanction you for doing so.

    These are poor RFAs that Zion will deny. Pretty much all the requests I saw are asking Zion to admit the legal argument Ford is making. Those will almost always be properly denied. Proper requests would ask for admissions on the specific facts that, when taken together, establish your legal theory. Ford probably doesn't have any of those, though. If you've seen it, think of the house of cards analogy in My Cousin Vinny. Proper RFAs should ask for admissions for the individual cards, so you can build the house at trial or in a motion for summary judgment. Improper RFAs ask for admissions that the house was properly built. Ford appears to be doing the latter.

    Either the lawyers are bad, or this is a desperation move like Owen Meany describes. The only way Ford can prevail is if she can establish that Zion was not a student athlete when she signed him. Since Zion officially still had NCAA eligibility when she signed him--IIRC, after he declared for the draft but before the deadline to withdraw from it--she is trying to argue that Zion lost his eligibility by taking the improper benefits.

    Ford also might be pushing this narrative hard because she may have committed a felony when she signed Zion.

    Equally important and being misreported everywhere within the media, is that the person propounding the Request for Admission does not by propounding it allege that it is true, but rather, is suggesting it might be true and it might support their case if it were. It is being widely reported, including on the main page of DBR, as an allegation.
    GTHC

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Yawn.

    Let me know when something concrete ever comes out of this.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixthman View Post
    Equally important and being misreported everywhere within the media, is that the person propounding the Request for Admission does not by propounding it allege that it is true, but rather, is suggesting it might be true and it might support their case if it were. It is being widely reported, including on the main page of DBR, as an allegation.
    And, because it is not an allegation or a pleading , the attorney serving the requests faces no repercussions for the insinuations being utterly baseless or frivolous. (Although they could face ethics blowback if they publicized the RFAs - which rarely see the light of day - to get an upper hand in the lawsuit.) At least an attorney who makes allegations in a complaint with no factual basis must account for the theoretical possibility of sanctions.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    Zion is not your typical 18 year old. You can tell in his interviews he is intelligent and carries himself with a "big picture" mindset much like a young Kobe or Lebron did. Zion was "the show" in college ball last year. Everyone wanted, and still wants, a piece of him and he always carried himself with integrity and careful molding of his future brand by choosing his words and actions carefully.

    With all that said it just seems odd he would've jumped at the first low tier agency that tried to do business with him.
    If Zion is so intelligent, how did he get himself into such a mess? He had access to some of the best advice available to a college basketball player.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    If Zion is so intelligent, how did he get himself into such a mess? He had access to some of the best advice available to a college basketball player.
    I know quite a few intelligent people from Duke that did dumb stuff spring semester Freshman year.
    Carolina delenda est

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    This is going well...

    Read this to see the worst but also most obvious take, if you dare.
    Yeah, this story rattled around on sports talk shows today. Unsurprisingly, there was a lack of legal nuance and plenty of "Duke paid Zion" or knew about improper payments, etc.

    Dan Patrick was certainly not easy on Duke.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I know quite a few intelligent people from Duke that did dumb stuff spring semester Freshman year.
    If only Iídíve stopped then . . . .

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    If only Iídíve stopped then . . . .
    You beat me to it...

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by BobBender View Post
    Again, i find this attitude to be the proverbial ď head in the sandĒ take on the current environment.
    Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley, Nolan Smith, JJ Redick Kyle Singler...those days are gone. For instance, are you unaware of the suspicions that surrounded the alleged Nike $ involvement in the Bagley recruitment? And his 11th hour change of heart.
    So hopefully Duke boosters are not involved. Having said that, look at the competition for Ď21 Jonathan Kuminga, who many have penciled in as the centerpiece of our next recruiting class. Itís Auburn, Memphis Kentucky; actually practically the entire ( strong a_s offer) SEC.
    Doesnít that speak volumes about what that kidís handlers are looking for? Good Lord, itís all in plain sight if one is not blind.
    I'm sorry, what about my post sounds naive? Being pro "pay the players?" Or saying that I will be profoundly disappointed if proof comes out the Duke has been in any way unclean?

    I expect out program to play fair. If we don't, we can no longer put our noses in the air with Kentucky or UNC. I want our team to be good. I want them to follow the rules.

    To me, following the rules comes first. It will have a massive impact on my perception of Duke basketball if they were in any way complicit in wrongdoing. Feel free to search my post history for me stating anything otherwise.

    I was also skeptical of Bagley's signing at the time. Nothing from that even had proven to implicate Duke, but if it did, I would also be extremely upset.

    I want out team to compete at the highest level within the scope of the rules.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Yawn.

    Let me know when something concrete ever comes out of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    And, because it is not an allegation or a pleading , the attorney serving the requests faces no repercussions for the insinuations being utterly baseless or frivolous. (Although they could face ethics blowback if they publicized the RFAs - which rarely see the light of day - to get an upper hand in the lawsuit.) At least an attorney who makes allegations in a complaint with no factual basis must account for the theoretical possibility of sanctions.
    I tend to agree with Stray:

    Stray Gator post upthread: The fact that the person/agency suing Zion is represented by Willie Gary and his law firm told me all I needed to know about this case.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    The fact that the person/agency suing Zion is represented by Willie Gary and his law firm told me all I needed to know about this case.
    Willie Gary, now there is a blast from the past. Willie Gary was brought in by Crystal Mangumís putative local counsel, Mark Simeon to lead the planned civil suit that was to follow the criminal case in the Lacrosse Hoax. One largely overlooked aspect of the Lacrosse Hoax was that the criminal case was in many respects meant to be an infomercial for the civil suit. This effort foundered not only because the criminal case went nowhere, but because Simeon was mostly working with Mangumís family and Mangum herself was MIA and/or not speaking to them.

    I have not kept up with Garyís further adventures, but my recollection of his website at the time was that it featured his conspicuous wealth, including his private plane ďThe Wings of Justice.Ē The message to prospective clients seemed to be that Gary knows how to find piles of money and, perhaps, he could help you find a pile of money.

    He seemed to be a good negotiator. By the time of the Lacrosse Hoax, he had negotiated huge settlements in the range of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars against seemingly compromised defendants. I was kind of curious as to what would happen if he was placed in a courtroom and actually required to litigate a case. I have the same curiosity in this case. Perhaps when his case gets dismissed in Florida and he finally gets to fly up to North Carolina on the Wings of Justice (if he still has it) we can find out.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I know quite a few intelligent people from Duke that did dumb stuff spring semester Freshman year.
    They were the presumptive #1 NBA lottery pick?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by proelitedota View Post
    Yawn.

    Let me know when something concrete ever comes out of this.
    Oh you'll know. It will hopefully only be a settlement. Being dismissed would be great. But then there's reality.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurber Whyte View Post
    Willie Gary, now there is a blast from the past. Willie Gary was brought in by Crystal Mangum’s putative local counsel, Mark Simeon to lead the planned civil suit that was to follow the criminal case in the Lacrosse Hoax. One largely overlooked aspect of the Lacrosse Hoax was that the criminal case was in many respects meant to be an infomercial for the civil suit. This effort foundered not only because the criminal case went nowhere, but because Simeon was mostly working with Mangum’s family and Mangum herself was MIA and/or not speaking to them.

    I have not kept up with Gary’s further adventures, but my recollection of his website at the time was that it featured his conspicuous wealth, including his private plane “The Wings of Justice.” The message to prospective clients seemed to be that Gary knows how to find piles of money and, perhaps, he could help you find a pile of money.

    He seemed to be a good negotiator. By the time of the Lacrosse Hoax, he had negotiated huge settlements in the range of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars against seemingly compromised defendants. I was kind of curious as to what would happen if he was placed in a courtroom and actually required to litigate a case. I have the same curiosity in this case. Perhaps when his case gets dismissed in Florida and he finally gets to fly up to North Carolina on the Wings of Justice (if he still has it) we can find out.
    That you for your post, Thurber. Why would Gina Ford engage a flamboyant plaintiff's attorney like Mr. Gary for her case, which is essentially a dispute over conflicting contracts? Wouldn't you want a top-notch business attorney with a strong background in entertainment and representation contracts? Then, presumably, the pile generated by Zion gets divided -- or Zion gets to pay each agent twice for some of the services.

    The entry of Willie Gary suggests the primary objective is to sue for damages from Williamson or from CAA, perhaps on the basis of"bad faith" by or other claims against Zion or CAA that a jury would decide. That approach suggests that Ms. Ford's earlier agreement with Zion would not be ruled valid in North Carolina, which seems to have strict laws governing athlete-agent agreements, especially when the athlete is a college player. Some stuff, I recall, has been raised about her qualifications to represent athletes in North Carolina

    Also, is this case still being brought in Florida? I am sure that Zion and CAA are trying to get it to a more appropriate venue (friendlier), whether in NC or federal court
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Seeing the words "Coach K could be deposed"...Huh?++++++++++++++++++

  16. #76
    Daneil Wallach, the legal analyst, attorney, and contributor to The Athletic, had an interesting response to Pat Forde on twitter after the Forde article was posted to SI.

    Gina Fordís attorneys are full of it.

    Hereís why.

    - the discovery was filed in a FL lawsuit thatís on appeal and is stayed as to Zion. No response required.

    - No discovery can occur in NC until a scheduling order is entered.

    - Relevancy battles loom.

    Iíll take the over.

    Also, Coach K (a non-party to the litigation) is beyond the subpoena power of a Florida court, and Fordís attorneys will have to seek a special commission issued by a NC court to compel his testimony in Florida.
    This is looking a lot more like a publicity stunt than an actual case. It should also be a tell that Coach K and Duke have not issued a statement about the situation as far as I have seen.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    This is looking a lot more like a publicity stunt than an actual case.
    Some cases are fought in a court of law, some in the court of public opinion.

    This seems to be the latter, not the former.

    When I see someone file a 100-page complaint, I know it's for show. When someone files a five or ten page complaint, as a defense lawyer I worry.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    And we can disagree.

    Loans do make sense, but I assume banks slap a very, very unhealthy interest rate. And those loans are probably challenging to get. Why get a loan when you can just get a payment that is very difficult to trace (and I'm assuming it's difficult or else we'd see a lot more players/coaches get implicated).

    This is a sport funded with billions where everyone gets a slice except for players. And because of these pressures, the top players do get compensated (and no, I do not think 1 year of college is payment enough).
    If the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate across the entire U.S. is currently 3.26%, according to St. Louis Fed data, it's hard for me to foresee banks slapping a "very, very unhealthy interest rate" on a Top-3 college basketball recruit attending Duke University with a 40+ inch vertical. While such a loan is likely not secured against any collateral, it's hard for me to envision a safer investment. But I could be wrong.

    - Chillin

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I know quite a few intelligent people from Duke that did dumb stuff spring semester Freshman year.
    Absolutely, the vast majority missed the entire Grateful Dead spring tour!

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    On the front page of DBR there is a reference to an article in Forbes and how lawyers could refer to point 12(f). I believe that is incorrect...it is 9f.

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