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  1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Add me to the list of folks who loved Rocky IV. You had to be a child of the Cold War I suppose.
    I mean, I suspect we are roughly the same age. It's good fun, but it wouldn't occur to me to call it a good movie. Sorta like Roadhouse.

  2. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I was adding it to a list that included the Back to the Future sequels. If you put Back to the Future 3 and Rocky 4 on at the same time, a lot more people would watch Rocky 4 than Back to the Future 3. I think a lot of it comes back to the definition of "value" or "well liked". Was it cinematic greatness? No. But was it entertaining and well done for what it was? Definitely.

    Just thinking about it earworms the music for me - the soundtrack is an incredible gym/workout mix.
    Back to the Future is a good example. The first is great. The sequels are ... fine. Enjoyable. But honestly, I couldn't tell you much about them years later except... Mary Steenburgen? And, um, a train? And Biff is rich because of sports betting?

    Oh, and the hoverboard of course.

    Still waiting on mine.

  3. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I mean, I suspect we are roughly the same age. It's good fun, but it wouldn't occur to me to call it a good movie. Sorta like Roadhouse.
    I attribute Rocky IV to the fall of the USSR but also Putin. So, toss up?

  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I mean, I suspect we are roughly the same age. It's good fun, but it wouldn't occur to me to call it a good movie. Sorta like Roadhouse.
    I don't know. Are we talking about cinematic greatness (acting, directing, editing, constumes, etc) or are we talking about a movie we enjoyed are were happy we saw it?

    I'm not a critic, I leave that kinda stuff to Jason. I'm a fan. If the movie scratches an itch, it works for me. I don't look for, or expect, Oscar level performances out of the cast and crew. I just expect to leave having felt like that was a good use of my 1.5-3 hours of life.

  5. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    Just watched the Breaking Bad pilot this morning and will be binging through the series. Looking forward to it based on the refs in this thread and commentary of how well the ending holds up.

    Huge pet peeve of mine are terrible endings - Lost, GoT, Sopranos (I hated it, YMMV), etc.
    Enjoy and report back when done!

  6. #1286
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    Just watched the Breaking Bad pilot this morning and will be binging through the series. Looking forward to it based on the refs in this thread and commentary of how well the ending holds up.

    Huge pet peeve of mine are terrible endings - Lost, GoT, Sopranos (I hated it, YMMV), etc.
    See, I thought that even if you didn’t like The Sopranos ending it delivered an intentional message consistent with the series themes and made sense.

    Lost….eh, I’m not sure what a satisfying ending to a show like that looks like. It was always about the mystery.

    GoT…there’s a satisfying ending to it , it just hasn’t been written yet!

  7. #1287
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Enjoy and report back when done!
    So far so good through two episodes. Something tells me that by the time I’m done, I’ll finally get a bunch of jokes and fantasy football names that I hadn’t understood.

  8. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    For me, it wasn't so much that the ending wasn't justified (it was/is); it was that the machinations that led up to it were so fast-forwarded that it felt like a betrayal of the previous 7 seasons. I know that the budget just kept on ballooning, but I'll never understand why HBO didn't include about 4 more episodes in that last season. The way they executed it definitely cheapens the series' overall quality, impact, and rewatchability to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    For me, it wasn't so much that the ending wasn't justified (it was/is); it was that the machinations that led up to it were so fast-forwarded that it felt like a betrayal of the previous 7 seasons. I know that the budget just kept on ballooning, but I'll never understand why HBO didn't include about 4 more episodes in that last season. The way they executed it definitely cheapens the series' overall quality, impact, and rewatchability to me.
    It wasn’t HBO’s choice. The two show runners were running for the exits. HBO would have gladly extend the season (series maybe). The show runners had a deal to work on a Star War series. They coincidentally backed out of it after the criticism of the last season of GoT.


  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    It wasn’t HBO’s choice. The two show runners were running for the exits. HBO would have gladly extend the season (series maybe). The show runners had a deal to work on a Star War series. They coincidentally backed out of it after the criticism of the last season of GoT.

    It really lays it all out there. Yikes. Great link.

  10. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    It wasn’t HBO’s choice. The two show runners were running for the exits. HBO would have gladly extend the season (series maybe). The show runners had a deal to work on a Star War series. They coincidentally backed out of it after the criticism of the last season of GoT.
    The irony is that Benioff and Weiss wanted to move onto their Star Wars gig so they botched their GOT ending... and when they botched the GOT ending the backlash caused them to be removed from their Star Wars gig (though they came up with a Netflix deal as cover for Star Wars firing them).

    It is hard to recall anyone's star falling as hard and as fast as David Benioff and DB Weiss. Whew!
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    The irony is that Benioff and Weiss wanted to move onto their Star Wars gig so they botched their GOT ending... and when they botched the GOT ending the backlash caused them to be removed from their Star Wars gig (though they came up with a Netflix deal as cover for Star Wars firing them).

    It is hard to recall anyone's star falling as hard and as fast as David Benioff and DB Weiss. Whew!
    Yeah. I wonder how much is "on them," and how much George (RR) Martin is culpable for whatever degree of guidance he offered (or didn't).

  12. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Yeah. I wonder how much is "on them," and how much George (RR) Martin is culpable for whatever degree of guidance he offered (or didn't).
    I'm a book reader, but I firmly believe that the saga will never be completed in satisfactory fashion. Martin has written himself into numerous corners (the books quite honestly just kept on getting more ponderous and unwieldy with each successive volume), and he's obviously having too much distracting fun with his innumerable side projects and whatnot. Add to that the fact that he is (sorry, not sorry) not a healthy man, and that he has been adamant that nobody but him will ever finish the books (presumably precluding a satisfactory ending à la Brandon Sanderson completing The Wheel of Time on Robert Jordan's behalf). Furthermore, it's been so long since A Dance With Dragons was published that any truly satisfactory read would likely have to involve re-reading volumes 1-5 (emphasis on volume), to the tune of over five thousand pages, which I'm certainly not gonna do.

    He has no pages.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    I'm a book reader, but I firmly believe that the saga will never be completed in satisfactory fashion. Martin has written himself into numerous corners (the books quite honestly just kept on getting more ponderous and unwieldy with each successive volume), and he's obviously having too much distracting fun with his innumerable side projects and whatnot. Add to that the fact that he is (sorry, not sorry) not a healthy man, and that he has been adamant that nobody but him will ever finish the books (presumably precluding a satisfactory ending à la Brandon Sanderson completing The Wheel of Time on Robert Jordan's behalf). Furthermore, it's been so long since A Dance With Dragons was published that any truly satisfactory read would likely have to involve re-reading volumes 1-5 (emphasis on volume), to the tune of over five thousand pages, which I'm certainly not gonna do.

    He has no pages.
    Oh, I agree. I'm wildly disappointed, but I agree. I recall a few years ago when there were several moments when the general opinion was GRRM was prepared to announce a release date... And none of them came to fruition.

    He has an amazing story and rich cast of characters. I'm not sure even he knows what to do with them.

    I'd really like to know him personally and know his actual impression of the final two seasons.

  14. #1294
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    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    his actual impression of the final two seasons.
    This, I'd be interested in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    ...I'd really like to know him personally
    This, probably not so much. He honestly seems like rather a turd to me.

  15. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    This, I'd be interested in.

    This, probably not so much. He honestly seems like rather a turd to me.
    Eh. He's a sports fan, which is cool. But a Jets fan, which is just unfortunate.

    He doesn't seem like a turd to me. Just like a dorky fantasy writer who had HBO leave a Brinks truck or ten at his door one day.

    I suspect he and I would actually get along pretty well.

  16. #1296
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Oh, I agree. I'm wildly disappointed, but I agree. I recall a few years ago when there were several moments when the general opinion was GRRM was prepared to announce a release date... And none of them came to fruition.

    He has an amazing story and rich cast of characters. I'm not sure even he knows what to do with them.

    I'd really like to know him personally and know his actual impression of the final two seasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    This, I'd be interested in.

    This, probably not so much. He honestly seems like rather a turd to me.
    Finding Your Roots on PBS:

    https://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-you...rge-r-r-martin

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    I'm a book reader, but I firmly believe that the saga will never be completed in satisfactory fashion. Martin has written himself into numerous corners (the books quite honestly just kept on getting more ponderous and unwieldy with each successive volume), and he's obviously having too much distracting fun with his innumerable side projects and whatnot. Add to that the fact that he is (sorry, not sorry) not a healthy man, and that he has been adamant that nobody but him will ever finish the books (presumably precluding a satisfactory ending à la Brandon Sanderson completing The Wheel of Time on Robert Jordan's behalf). Furthermore, it's been so long since A Dance With Dragons was published that any truly satisfactory read would likely have to involve re-reading volumes 1-5 (emphasis on volume), to the tune of over five thousand pages, which I'm certainly not gonna do.

    He has no pages.
    Sadly, in GRRM's insistence that no one else would finish his books, it looks increasingly like he has allowed just that, with the substitution of television for books. He provided an outline of plot points for Weiss and Benioff to work from once the show outran the books, and it seems very much like HBO's GOT conclusion is the only one we will receive. It's a shame, too - I have not read ASOIAF because I could not abide investing in a series that never ended. Even something like Sanderson's WOT conclusion, which felt a bit off to me but not too far from Jordan's voice, would be preferable to the festering midden that the final season of GOT apparently turned out to be (love that pitch meeting clip, btw). In a choice between no ending and a pretty terrible ending, the only winning move IMO is not to play.

    The question in my mind becomes, whether WOT will suffer a similar fate:


  18. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishDevil View Post
    The question in my mind becomes, whether WOT will suffer a similar fate
    At least the full 14-volume set was actually completed before filming began. It wasn't completed by the same guy, but it was completed nonetheless, and there were lots of notes to help out the replacement author, because the original author knew in advance that he was actually dying and wanted to be sure the books were completed the way he intended. Also a good sign is that the replacement author declined to write a planned related series because there weren't enough available notes from the original author to faithfully carry out the original intent.

  19. #1299
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by IrishDevil View Post
    I could not abide investing in a series that never ended.
    This weekend I finally finished Vikings. It started in 2013, and ended in 2019 or 2020, not sure which. Either way, knowing that it had concluded on its own terms made the viewing (binging) much better. The ending was worth the wait. (As well as the news that they are working on a sequel series set 100 years after the first one wrapped up.)
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    At least the full 14-volume set was actually completed before filming began. It wasn't completed by the same guy, but it was completed nonetheless, and there were lots of notes to help out the replacement author, because the original author knew in advance that he was actually dying and wanted to be sure the books were completed the way he intended. Also a good sign is that the replacement author declined to write a planned related series because there weren't enough available notes from the original author to faithfully carry out the original intent.
    His wife, Harriet, was instrumental in getting the series finished. Their story is interesting and likely a huge part of the success of the story. She had been an editor for 20 years by the time they married in 1981 and actually published Jordan's first book (after rejecting his first manuscript). She helped editor all of his WoT books, although she claims, "By the last of the Wheel of Time books, my role was primarily that of wife: keeping him fed and cared for—because after 20 plus years I had taught him everything I knew about storytelling and prose, and he had really become the wonderful writer that he was."

    Jordan knew he was sick and made as many notes as he could regarding the ending of the series. He often claimed there were orders to burn the notes and wipe the hard drivers if he should die, but that was in jest lest his fans think the series could be completed faster if Jordan had an "accident". After his death, Jordan's wife saw the eulogy that Sanderson posted on his website and read one of his books and decided he would be the one to finish the series.

    I have no doubt that the reason the series was finished, and finished well, is entirely due to Harriet being there every step of the way.

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