Do sports, and more specifically NCAAB, return?

[budwom]

Saw an interesting opinion piece in a Gannett paper today...as some players in the Pac 12 and SEC take a dim view of their conferences' strategies, the author noted that it's the players (primarily black, by the way) taking all the risk, while the school administrators reap all the rewards of playing...other beneficiaries, of course, being the athletes (primarily white?) in the non revenue sports, e.g. golf, tennis, lax, soccer, etc...

I don't mean to start a racial festouche battle, but I can definitely see why some athletes are wondering why they should take virtually all the risk with no clear reward.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Saw an interesting opinion piece in a Gannett paper today...as some players in the Pac 12 and SEC take a dim view of their conferences' strategies, the author noted that it's the players (primarily black, by the way) taking all the risk, while the school administrators reap all the rewards of playing...other beneficiaries, of course, being the athletes (primarily white?) in the non revenue sports, e.g. golf, tennis, lax, soccer, etc...

I don't mean to start a racial festouche battle, but I can definitely see why some athletes are wondering why they should take virtually all the risk with no clear reward.

The thing is, it's not anything new from other sports seasons. But in the context of the virus and the backdrop of BLM, it just looks even more absurd than usual.

[Stray Gator]

Saw an interesting opinion piece in a Gannett paper today...as some players in the Pac 12 and SEC take a dim view of their conferences' strategies, the author noted that it's the players (primarily black, by the way) taking all the risk, while the school administrators reap all the rewards of playing...other beneficiaries, of course, being the athletes (primarily white?) in the non revenue sports, e.g. golf, tennis, lax, soccer, etc...

I don't mean to start a racial festouche battle, but I can definitely see why some athletes are wondering why they should take virtually all the risk with no clear reward.

For those who haven't had an opportunity to review it, here's a link to the "#We Are United" document posted by "Players of the PAC-12" listing their grievances and demands:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ootball-season

As an old-timer who has enjoyed a lifelong, unapologetically passionate love affair with college football and basketball, I find it difficult to express the depth of my disappointment in reading this document. I've seen comments on other college sports message boards predicting that this "manifesto" will mark the beginning of the end for college football as we know it. While I believe the timing is certainly terrible, given the fact that college football attendance was already on a declining slope before the COVID-19 pandemic, I wouldn't dare to speculate that the future consequences will be so far-reaching and permanent. But I can say with some confidence -- and sadness -- that this proclamation has already accelerated the depletion of my once-seemingly-inexhaustible well of enthusiasm for college sports. If the players feel that way about it, how can I ever again regard the game as a form of entertainment that is fun for the participants as well as the spectators?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

For those who haven't had an opportunity to review it, here's a link to the "#We Are United" document posted by "Players of the PAC-12" listing their grievances and demands:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ootball-season

As an old-timer who has enjoyed a lifelong, unapologetically passionate love affair with college football and basketball, I find it difficult to express the depth of my disappointment in reading this document. I've seen comments on other college sports message boards predicting that this "manifesto" will mark the beginning of the end for college football as we know it. While I believe the timing is certainly terrible, given the fact that college football attendance was already on a declining slope before the COVID-19 pandemic, I wouldn't dare to speculate that the future consequences will be so far-reaching and permanent. But I can say with some confidence -- and sadness -- that this proclamation has already accelerated the depletion of my once-seemingly-inexhaustible well of enthusiasm for college sports. If the players feel that way about it, how can I ever again regard the game as a form of entertainment that is fun for the participants as well as the spectators?

I'd be interested to know more about how this specifically changed your understanding or attitude regarding college sports. It all seems pretty straight forward to me.

[wilson]

At least one voice arguing that a Power 5 breakaway is increasingly likely if the NCAA should cancel fall championships and the P5 should decide it prefers otherwise.

[Acymetric]

At least one voice arguing that a Power 5 breakaway is increasingly likely if the NCAA should cancel fall championships and the P5 should decide it prefers otherwise.

Much more likely that the colleges/conferences end up cancelling than that the NCAA cancels and the P5 breaks away in order to continue.

[hallcity]

For those who haven't had an opportunity to review it, here's a link to the "#We Are United" document posted by "Players of the PAC-12" listing their grievances and demands:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ootball-season

As an old-timer who has enjoyed a lifelong, unapologetically passionate love affair with college football and basketball, I find it difficult to express the depth of my disappointment in reading this document. I've seen comments on other college sports message boards predicting that this "manifesto" will mark the beginning of the end for college football as we know it. While I believe the timing is certainly terrible, given the fact that college football attendance was already on a declining slope before the COVID-19 pandemic, I wouldn't dare to speculate that the future consequences will be so far-reaching and permanent. But I can say with some confidence -- and sadness -- that this proclamation has already accelerated the depletion of my once-seemingly-inexhaustible well of enthusiasm for college sports. If the players feel that way about it, how can I ever again regard the game as a form of entertainment that is fun for the participants as well as the spectators?

This is one of the many signs that there's been too much money sloshing around college sports. If the revenues in college sports were now what they were 50 years ago, would we be seeing this crazy effort to play college football during a pandemic?

Part of me wants to tell players "Look, this is what college sports offers. If you don't like the deal, don't come to college. Go find some pro league to play in. If you can't find a pro league to play in, maybe your skills aren't worth what you think they are." But knowing how much money P5 college football and basketball bring in, I can't think you can tell players that with a straight face.

I think the NCAA has to get serious about NIL. I think P5 schools have to get serious about giving stipends to football and basketball players. I also think that colleges need to tell players that if they insist on being paid something more than stipends while in college, that the colleges are going to insist on signing the players to contracts that give the schools a piece of the players' future earnings in the NBA and NFL. Getting paid to play is a two way street.

[Stray Gator]

I'd be interested to know more about how this specifically changed your understanding or attitude regarding college sports. It all seems pretty straight forward to me.

I guess I've always labored under the illusion that college football and basketball players, or at least most of them, considered the opportunity to continue playing the game after high school and receive a scholarship that covered all the costs (plus more recently, a cash allowance) for 4 or 5 years of college to be a "reward" of sorts. And I believed those interviews in which players professed to enjoy playing because they "love the game" and "love playing with my teammates." Until now, I had no idea that so many of the players felt they were being exploited with "no clear reward."

I'm sure there are many here who may view the players' demands to be compensated a percentage of the revenues and efforts to transform college sports into a platform for the advocacy of social justice issues as positive developments. While I respect the players' right to seek such changes, I would find it difficult to reconcile the resulting form of college sports with the traditional model that I came to love and enjoy. You might scoff and say that the model never really existed; or that if it did, the sport has eroded so much that it has long since ceased to resemble the model. In any event, now that I know how the players feel about their participation in college sports, I don't see how I can continue in good conscience to support what they regard as an oppressive practice. And I trust they will respect my right to find other outlets for my entertainment time and money.

[budwom]

The thing is, it's not anything new from other sports seasons. But in the context of the virus and the backdrop of BLM, it just looks even more absurd than usual.

Well, I think it's new from the standpoint that by playing they definitely have an increased risk of getting Covid; but yeah, it's generally the same old story.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, I think it's new from the standpoint that by playing they definitely have an increased risk of getting Covid; but yeah, it's generally the same old story.

COVID-19 = CTE for football.

There is always danger, it's just more visible right now. There's always been a level of racial inequality, but it is under a microscope now.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I guess I've always labored under the illusion that college football and basketball players, or at least most of them, considered the opportunity to continue playing the game after high school and receive a scholarship that covered all the costs (plus more recently, a cash allowance) for 4 or 5 years of college to be a "reward" of sorts. And I believed those interviews in which players professed to enjoy playing because they "love the game" and "love playing with my teammates." Until now, I had no idea that so many of the players felt they were being exploited with "no clear reward."

I'm sure there are many here who may view the players' demands to be compensated a percentage of the revenues and efforts to transform college sports into a platform for the advocacy of social justice issues as positive developments. While I respect the players' right to seek such changes, I would find it difficult to reconcile the resulting form of college sports with the traditional model that I came to love and enjoy. You might scoff and say that the model never really existed; or that if it did, the sport has eroded so much that it has long since ceased to resemble the model. In any event, now that I know how the players feel about their participation in college sports, I don't see how I can continue in good conscience to support what they regard as an oppressive practice. And I trust they will respect my right to find other outlets for my entertainment time and money.

I was generally fine with the statement right up to the moment they said schools should share 50% of the revenue from each sport with players from that sport. Suddenly it felt not like a statement in support of fairness and equality across all collegiate sports but more like an attempted money grab in favor of football and men’s basketball players. But maybe I’m wrong, and members of crew teams everywhere would be excited to be able to go splurge at McDonalds with their newfound wealth.

[JasonEvans]

Don’t forget the Big 10 now has 14 and hasn’t had 10 for over decades!

Is this where I chime in to note that Indiana (Notre Dame) and Kentucky (Louisville) don't touch the Atlantic Coast?

-Jason "Atlanta, Syracuse, and Pitt are not exactly coastal cities either" Evans

[budwom]

Is this where I chime in to note that Indiana (Notre Dame) and Kentucky (Louisville) don't touch the Atlantic Coast?

-Jason "Atlanta, Syracuse, and Pitt are not exactly coastal cities either" Evans

well, at least NY and GA have Atlantic coastlines, and PA has the Delaware Estuary, which nearly counts..not sure why we ever took Lville, though if it precluded UCONN from joining, that's a good reason right there.

[OldPhiKap]

if it precluded UCONN from joining, that's a good reason right there.

Thank you, BC!

[budwom]

Thank you, BC!

That's right! I can't recall their beef with UCONN (i'm too lazy to look it up) but I'm forever grateful. That has REALLY hurt UCONN.

[-jk]

Is this where I chime in to note that Indiana (Notre Dame) and Kentucky (Louisville) don't touch the Atlantic Coast?

-Jason "Atlanta, Syracuse, and Pitt are not exactly coastal cities either" Evans

In the America's Cup years ago, Chicago was deemed to be on an arm of the sea, and hence coastal...

Chicago has a significant sailing culture, and the Chicago Yacht Club even backed skipper Buddy Melges and the Heart of America challenge for the America’s Cup in 1987 in Fremantle, Australia. As part of that challenge, lawyers somehow successfully argued to the New York Supreme Court that Lake Michigan was “an arm of the sea” because of its link to the St. Lawrence Seaway and thus satisfied the requirements in the deed of gift to potentially host the America’s Cup.

.

I suppose Lulville could make a similar argument.

-jk

[Bluedog]

For those who haven't had an opportunity to review it, here's a link to the "#We Are United" document posted by "Players of the PAC-12" listing their grievances and demands:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ootball-season

As an old-timer who has enjoyed a lifelong, unapologetically passionate love affair with college football and basketball, I find it difficult to express the depth of my disappointment in reading this document. I've seen comments on other college sports message boards predicting that this "manifesto" will mark the beginning of the end for college football as we know it. While I believe the timing is certainly terrible, given the fact that college football attendance was already on a declining slope before the COVID-19 pandemic, I wouldn't dare to speculate that the future consequences will be so far-reaching and permanent. But I can say with some confidence -- and sadness -- that this proclamation has already accelerated the depletion of my once-seemingly-inexhaustible well of enthusiasm for college sports. If the players feel that way about it, how can I ever again regard the game as a form of entertainment that is fun for the participants as well as the spectators?

I'd be interested to know more about how this specifically changed your understanding or attitude regarding college sports. It all seems pretty straight forward to me.

This is one of the many signs that there's been too much money sloshing around college sports. If the revenues in college sports were now what they were 50 years ago, would we be seeing this crazy effort to play college football during a pandemic?

Part of me wants to tell players "Look, this is what college sports offers. If you don't like the deal, don't come to college. Go find some pro league to play in. If you can't find a pro league to play in, maybe your skills aren't worth what you think they are." But knowing how much money P5 college football and basketball bring in, I can't think you can tell players that with a straight face.

I think the NCAA has to get serious about NIL. I think P5 schools have to get serious about giving stipends to football and basketball players. I also think that colleges need to tell players that if they insist on being paid something more than stipends while in college, that the colleges are going to insist on signing the players to contracts that give the schools a piece of the players' future earnings in the NBA and NFL. Getting paid to play is a two way street.

I guess I've always labored under the illusion that college football and basketball players, or at least most of them, considered the opportunity to continue playing the game after high school and receive a scholarship that covered all the costs (plus more recently, a cash allowance) for 4 or 5 years of college to be a "reward" of sorts. And I believed those interviews in which players professed to enjoy playing because they "love the game" and "love playing with my teammates." Until now, I had no idea that so many of the players felt they were being exploited with "no clear reward."

I'm sure there are many here who may view the players' demands to be compensated a percentage of the revenues and efforts to transform college sports into a platform for the advocacy of social justice issues as positive developments. While I respect the players' right to seek such changes, I would find it difficult to reconcile the resulting form of college sports with the traditional model that I came to love and enjoy. You might scoff and say that the model never really existed; or that if it did, the sport has eroded so much that it has long since ceased to resemble the model. In any event, now that I know how the players feel about their participation in college sports, I don't see how I can continue in good conscience to support what they regard as an oppressive practice. And I trust they will respect my right to find other outlets for my entertainment time and money.

I was generally fine with the statement right up to the moment they said schools should share 50% of the revenue from each sport with players from that sport. Suddenly it felt not like a statement in support of fairness and equality across all collegiate sports but more like an attempted money grab in favor of football and men’s basketball players. But maybe I’m wrong, and members of crew teams everywhere would be excited to be able to go splurge at McDonalds with their newfound wealth.

I'm largely aligned with Stray Gator, and honestly, at this point, I could perhaps be convinced that sports recruiting/scholarships should simply be removed from colleges completely and universities should again focus solely on academics (although students can still choose to participate and compete against other schools like we do with club sports/high school and excellence/passion in a sport could still be somewhat considered in admissions just like somebody who is really good at chess would get an extra feather in their cap - it's an "extra-curricular"). And I say this as somebody who clearly LOVES Duke basketball and has spent countless time, energy, and money in fandom, and believe it enriched my undergraduate experience. It seems that taking the European model of simply accepting students based on academics, and then letting the students participate in whatever they want (including sport should they choose) is really what universities should be about.

Probably not a popular opinion on this site -- and again I clearly LOVE college basketball and dedicate A LOT of time to it -- but even I've been disillusioned by it all (OAD hasn't helped) and think maybe it should all be removed. Of course, as others keep saying, "too much money" involved for that to happen. Also, too many influential people would not stand for it probably as athletes, coaches, and athletic administrators have been on pedestals for quite some time and have a major voice/influence on it.

[jimsumner]

Is this where I chime in to note that Indiana (Notre Dame) and Kentucky (Louisville) don't touch the Atlantic Coast?

-Jason "Atlanta, Syracuse, and Pitt are not exactly coastal cities either" Evans

Boise State was about to join the Big East before that conference fell apart. That's really pushing it.

[OldPhiKap]

That's right! I can't recall their beef with UCONN (i'm too lazy to look it up) but I'm forever grateful. That has REALLY hurt UCONN.

I think UConn tried to keep BC out of the Big East at some point. Revenge, cold dish, and all.

[throatybeard]

In the America's Cup years ago, Chicago was deemed to be on an arm of the sea, and hence coastal...

.

I suppose Lulville could make a similar argument.

-jk

My aunt lived all her 78 years in Kandiyohi and Renville counties, Minnesota, into the prairie about 80-100 miles west of the Twin Cities. (And it feels farther). Upon hearing we were in Duluth, she asked if Wolf "enjoyed the ocean."

Which, I mean, Lake Superior, it really does make sense.