Not a good look for Tom Izzo

[scottdude8]

While the college basketball world remains focused on the potential fallout from the new HBO documentary, ESPN has done some good reporting into the situation at Michigan State, which is arguably much more odious.

The long and short of the new reporting is this: in 2017 an MSU walk on was accused of sexual assault, and a witness was named. Rather than allow for a proper investigation under Title IX regulations, Izzo and his staff "sought out" a witness and talked to him before police and investigators could. While it's unclear what was actually said by Izzo to the potential witness, there are obvious implications. When you're a student at MSU and Tom Izzo reaches out to you about an incident like this, there's a message being sent whether it's made explicit or not.

Unfortunately this is indicative of a pattern not just in the MSU basketball program , but in the athletic department as a whole and the university more generally. It's widely thought that the reason football coach Mark Dantonio abruptly retired earlier this year was because the walls were closing in on his own misdeeds: he chose to recruit a player with a history of sexual misconduct despite repeated warnings, and when that player ended up being arrested for sexual assault, Dantonio passed the buck to an assistant who is now suing for wrongful termination and spilling all of the beans in court.

As someone who has followed these cases more closely than most, being attuned to the local Michigan media (places like the Detroit Free Press have done great journalistic work), it's bothered me to see Izzo seemingly getting a free pass by the national media on these issues. I've had to bite my tongue a bunch of times when discussions of Izzo on this board turn to how much people respect him as a coach, because I know anything I say will be viewed through the lens of my disliking Izzo as a Michigan fan. But it's becoming more and more clear that there is a pattern of events in East Lansing in which Izzo took actions to try to sweep troubling allegations against members of his team under the rug.

Now as a disclaimer, there's a common retort (often parroted by MSU fans) that "Things like this happen everywhere, and Izzo is only under the microscope because of the Larry Nassar situation." And that may be true, but to that I say, "So what?" No matter how it's found out, what Izzo and his program is alleged to have done (again, multiple times) is wrong, period. If we're going to let him skate by with his reputation untarnished just because of the extenuating circumstances and that this "probably happens everywhere", all that does is cement the idea that this type of behavior is OK, which makes the "this happens everywhere" argument a self-fulfilling prophecy and cycle we'll never be able to break.

If you have the time (and let's be honest, we all do right now, haha), give this article a close read, and go back and read in detail what came out about the MSU basketball program immediately following the Nassar scandal. At the very least, I think we all need to think very carefully about listing Izzo as one of those coaches who "does things the right way" moving forward.

[mattyoung18]

There is a lot of smoke going on around that schools athletics.Even their football program has had issues.I agree with you.

[DukieInBrasil]

While the college basketball world remains focused on the potential fallout from the new HBO documentary, ESPN has done some good reporting into the situation at Michigan State, which is arguably much more odious.

The long and short of the new reporting is this: in 2017 an MSU walk on was accused of sexual assault, and a witness was named. Rather than allow for a proper investigation under Title IX regulations, Izzo and his staff "sought out" a witness and talked to him before police and investigators could. While it's unclear what was actually said by Izzo to the potential witness, there are obvious implications. When you're a student at MSU and Tom Izzo reaches out to you about an incident like this, there's a message being sent whether it's made explicit or not.

Unfortunately this is indicative of a pattern not just in the MSU basketball program , but in the athletic department as a whole and the university more generally. It's widely thought that the reason football coach Mark Dantonio abruptly retired earlier this year was because the walls were closing in on his own misdeeds: he chose to recruit a player with a history of sexual misconduct despite repeated warnings, and when that player ended up being arrested for sexual assault, Dantonio passed the buck to an assistant who is now suing for wrongful termination and spilling all of the beans in court.

As someone who has followed these cases more closely than most, being attuned to the local Michigan media (places like the Detroit Free Press have done great journalistic work), it's bothered me to see Izzo seemingly getting a free pass by the national media on these issues. I've had to bite my tongue a bunch of times when discussions of Izzo on this board turn to how much people respect him as a coach, because I know anything I say will be viewed through the lens of my disliking Izzo as a Michigan fan. But it's becoming more and more clear that there is a pattern of events in East Lansing in which Izzo took actions to try to sweep troubling allegations against members of his team under the rug.

Now as a disclaimer, there's a common retort (often parroted by MSU fans) that "Things like this happen everywhere, and Izzo is only under the microscope because of the Larry Nassar situation." And that may be true, but to that I say, "So what?" No matter how it's found out, what Izzo and his program is alleged to have done (again, multiple times) is wrong, period. If we're going to let him skate by with his reputation untarnished just because of the extenuating circumstances and that this "probably happens everywhere", all that does is cement the idea that this type of behavior is OK, which makes the "this happens everywhere" argument a self-fulfilling prophecy and cycle we'll never be able to break.

If you have the time (and let's be honest, we all do right now, haha), give this article a close read, and go back and read in detail what came out about the MSU basketball program immediately following the Nassar scandal. At the very least, I think we all need to think very carefully about listing Izzo as one of those coaches who "does things the right way" moving forward.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Many men (and some women too) shrink away the term "rape culture", but this is exactly the type of behavior that perpetuates a cultural norm in which men, and particularly famous men or even non-famous athletes, are given a free pass on sexual misdeeds, whether they be against women or men. You're right to point out that it is a cycle, and like Danaerys Stormborn, first of her name, Mother of Dragons etc etc, liked to say, it is wheel that needs to be broken. We're making progress as a society, many are actively confronting it, denouncing it, and the legal system is starting to treat it withe severity that it deserves. But we have a long, long way to go until sexual violence is adequately addressed.

[uh_no]

with the world's eyes on MSU, this could be something that finds izzo out of a job.

Unfortunately the school has to walk a tightrope here. And the point isn't to imply anything necessariy happened, but stepping around major barriers in an investigation like that would be grounds for termination, IMO.

[MChambers]

with the world's eyes on MSU, this could be something that finds izzo out of a job.

Unfortunately the school has to walk a tightrope here. And the point isn't to imply anything necessariy happened, but stepping around major barriers in an investigation like that would be grounds for termination, IMO.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. While I am very bothered by this report, it doesn't have as much scandal to it as many reports.

What bothers me the most about this is that when there was a similar report two or so years ago on ESPN, involving a graduate assistant coach and perhaps some players, Izzo used the defense that as basketball coach he had no role in investigating the allegations or assessing penalties. Several people said that was in fact the correct way to handle these types of allegations. Here, in contrast, he is getting in the middle of the investigation and talking to potential witnesses.

[scottdude8]

with the world's eyes on MSU, this could be something that finds izzo out of a job.

Unfortunately the school has to walk a tightrope here. And the point isn't to imply anything necessariy happened, but stepping around major barriers in an investigation like that would be grounds for termination, IMO.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. While I am very bothered by this report, it doesn't have as much scandal to it as many reports.

What bothers me the most about this is that when there was a similar report two or so years ago on ESPN, involving a graduate assistant coach and perhaps some players, Izzo used the defense that as basketball coach he had no role in investigating the allegations or assessing penalties. Several people said that was in fact the correct way to handle these types of allegations. Here, in contrast, he is getting in the middle of the investigation and talking to potential witnesses.

You guys are both hitting the nail on the head here. It's entirely possible that Izzo's intentions weren't necessarily nefarious, but even if you give him that generous benefit of the doubt, doing this still violates all sorts of ethical, and possibly legal, norms. When you consider this in the larger context of everything going on at MSU and Izzo's past statements, it looks even worse. Izzo and MSU can't have things both ways... either Izzo was wrong in the first case and should've faced consequences, or he was wrong in this case and needs to face consequences based on this reporting.

It's very interesting seeing some MSU reporters on Twitter throwing shade at this report (and MSU fans, being a classy bunch, are doing much more than throw shade). The general gist of it has been "I know Tom Izzo and he's a great guy." But as we all should know by now, being a "great guy" in certain interactions doesn't mean you aren't doing bad stuff in other interactions, something that is all the more apparent when it comes to what we're learning in the "MeToo era".

Obviously there's a lot more to this story (and to the issue more generally). But I hope at a bare minimum we're well past the point of putting Izzo amongst the small group of coaches who we root for because they "do things the right way". Even if it's circumstantial, the evidence is mounting, and patterns are forming.

[Lurkingdukedog]

You guys are both hitting the nail on the head here. It's entirely possible that Izzo's intentions weren't necessarily nefarious, but even if you give him that generous benefit of the doubt, doing this still violates all sorts of ethical, and possibly legal, norms. When you consider this in the larger context of everything going on at MSU and Izzo's past statements, it looks even worse. Izzo and MSU can't have things both ways... either Izzo was wrong in the first case and should've faced consequences, or he was wrong in this case and needs to face consequences based on this reporting.

It's very interesting seeing some MSU reporters on Twitter throwing shade at this report (and MSU fans, being a classy bunch, are doing much more than throw shade). The general gist of it has been "I know Tom Izzo and he's a great guy." But as we all should know by now, being a "great guy" in certain interactions doesn't mean you aren't doing bad stuff in other interactions, something that is all the more apparent when it comes to what we're learning in the "MeToo era".

Obviously there's a lot more to this story (and to the issue more generally). But I hope at a bare minimum we're well past the point of putting Izzo amongst the small group of coaches who we root for because they "do things the right way". Even if it's circumstantial, the evidence is mounting, and patterns are forming.

Wow! What a sobering story. It reminds me a bit of the story/reporting that Jon Krakauer did several years back in his book about the University of Montana entitled, "Missoula". Thanks for bringing this to our collective attention.

[MartyClark]

I'll try to say this carefully, I may not succeed.

Successful football and basketball coaches have some very specialized skills that work well in their environment. Izzo and many other coaches have the ability to recruit kids, inspire loyalty and win games. When they win, they are supported and sometimes revered by their fan bases.

Those specialized skills don't necessarily mean that the coaches are particularly good or well rounded guys. I think that many successful coaches have a very narrow band width. They are not particularly well read or well rounded in the broader aspects of life. It does not surprise me when any high level coach is rude to the press or defensive about his program. It doesn't surprise me when they say or do something that seems self centered or even stupid to the majority of society. They are usually playing to an audience of fans, players and supporters who don't care about these gaffes so long as the team wins games.

I think K is a cut above the average coach on these issues. I think he has a broader grasp of and interest in events outside college basketball to make him more insightful than the average coach. K is not perfect either and a previous discussion on a different thread about "getting K'd" at a press conference is interesting and funny.

I love college sports and greatly miss them. I'd like to see the president of the University make more than the football and basketball coach. Not talking about Duke, I'd like to see the coaches subject to the same scrutiny and oversight as professors fighting for tenure.

Is Izzo a good guy? Don't know, he may be within the narrow confines of how we judge coaches.