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  1. #321

    This song is for Patrick Tape


  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    Staying out of the larger discussion, YES , Ingram and Tatum were studs.
    I absolutely concur with the above statement. Those guys were definitely studs. If Johnson is on their level, then that will be fantastic for Duke.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Look at the superlative, All-America talent on the Duke teams of 2018 and 2019. Those teams didn't make the Final Four. All-America players are recognized for individual talent and achievement. What matters a lot more to me is having Duke win team championships, whether or not the individual players are named All-America.
    Same here, which is why I explicitly wrote that this matters because Duke almost never makes a Final Four without an All-American on the team.

    Great teams tend to consist of great players...

    Anyway, this strand has gone on way too long. I'm out unless someone writes something interesting to me.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Bay Area Duke Fan View Post
    Look at the superlative, All-America talent on the Duke teams of 2018 and 2019. Those teams didn't make the Final Four. All-America players are recognized for individual talent and achievement. What matters a lot more to me is having Duke win team championships, whether or not the individual players are named All-America.
    I don't want to speak for Troublemaker, but I think his point can be illustrated by the fact that, in the Coach K era, 10 of his 12 Final Four teams have had at least one consensus 1st or 2nd team All-American on them (using Sports-Reference's take on "consensus"). That's 83%. Of Coach K's teams that did not make the Final Four (not including 2020), 12 out of 27 had at least one consensus 1st or 2nd team All-American on them. That's 44%.

    Of Coach K teams that have won the ACC regular season, 8 of 11 had 1st or 2nd team All-Americans (73%), while of his teams that didn't win the ACC regular season, it's only 14 of 28 (50%). Of Coach K teams that have won the ACC tournament, 12 of 14 had 1st or 2nd team All-Americans (86%) while just 10 of 25 of his teams that didn't win the ACCT had such a player (40%).

    In other words, if "what matters" to you is team championships, you want All-Americans on your team. And I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.

  5. #325
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I don't want to speak for Troublemaker, but I think his point can be illustrated by the fact that, in the Coach K era, 10 of his 12 Final Four teams have had at least one consensus 1st or 2nd team All-American on them (using Sports-Reference's take on "consensus"). That's 83%. Of Coach K's teams that did not make the Final Four (not including 2020), 12 out of 27 had at least one consensus 1st or 2nd team All-American on them. That's 44%.

    Of Coach K teams that have won the ACC regular season, 8 of 11 had 1st or 2nd team All-Americans (73%), while of his teams that didn't win the ACC regular season, it's only 14 of 28 (50%). Of Coach K teams that have won the ACC tournament, 12 of 14 had 1st or 2nd team All-Americans (86%) while just 10 of 25 of his teams that didn't win the ACCT had such a player (40%).

    In other words, if "what matters" to you is team championships, you want All-Americans on your team. And I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement.
    To be fair, some of that is circular logic (not by you, just the correlation itself). The best players on the best teams tend to get the national and ACC honors. Now I don’t think that explains the entirety of the difference. Better teams are usually better because their players are better. But the difference is probably overstated.

    That all being said, it is true that our most successful teams have had an All-American. Of course, part of that is just that we have had so many years with an All-American: 22 of 39 seasons.

    One thing to add: it doesn’t necessarily have to be Johnson that has the monster year. If Hurt does return, he is the kind of prospect who could make that jump to stardom as a soph. I guess one shouldn’t rule out Moore or Stanley (if he returns) in a “Luke Kennard type of sophomore explosion” season. If I was handicapping things, I would put Johnson and Hurt as the most likely to achieve it.

    One more thing to add: the past does not necessarily dictate the future. While we have not had many teams succeed without a nationally-recognized Star, it has happened before (even for us, and certainly for other programs). Maybe it is a team like 2008 Kansas, who had a bunch of very good players but no superstars so good that they earned national honors. Unlikely? Sure. But winning the title is always unlikely.

    I mean, I sure hope we have an All-American next year. But we can be successful even without one.

  6. #326
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    If Patrick Tape’s commitment was an Office scene:


  7. #327
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    I keep hearing the word "commit". I do not think it means what you think it means.

  8. #328
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    To be fair, some of that is circular logic (not by you, just the correlation itself). The best players on the best teams tend to get the national and ACC honors. Now I don’t think that explains the entirety of the difference. Better teams are usually better because their players are better. But the difference is probably overstated.

    That all being said, it is true that our most successful teams have had an All-American. Of course, part of that is just that we have had so many years with an All-American: 22 of 39 seasons.

    One thing to add: it doesn’t necessarily have to be Johnson that has the monster year. If Hurt does return, he is the kind of prospect who could make that jump to stardom as a soph. I guess one shouldn’t rule out Moore or Stanley (if he returns) in a “Luke Kennard type of sophomore explosion” season. If I was handicapping things, I would put Johnson and Hurt as the most likely to achieve it.

    One more thing to add: the past does not necessarily dictate the future. While we have not had many teams succeed without a nationally-recognized Star, it has happened before (even for us, and certainly for other programs). Maybe it is a team like 2008 Kansas, who had a bunch of very good players but no superstars so good that they earned national honors. Unlikely? Sure. But winning the title is always unlikely.

    I mean, I sure hope we have an All-American next year. But we can be successful even without one.
    What about the 2006 and 2007 Florida squads? I know Horford and Noah went on to be high draft picks and stars in the NBA (and Corey Brewer was a first rounder as well I believe), but I don't recall anyone on those squads winning much in the way of national awards at the college level, despite the team success.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Our incoming post man is a freshman...I don't think it's crazy to assume that a senior big man will be able to contribute, at the very least, some defense, rebounding, and foul consumption...enough other programs had interest to convince me that he's more than a practice player. But I guess we'll see.
    I agree but it’s just a guess. We don’t know how Williams or Tape will play next year against ACC competition coming out of HS or the Ivy League. I’m just grateful to Patrick for giving us something to discuss for the 3rd time.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    To be fair, some of that is circular logic (not by you, just the correlation itself). The best players on the best teams tend to get the national and ACC honors. Now I don’t think that explains the entirety of the difference. Better teams are usually better because their players are better. But the difference is probably overstated.

    That all being said, it is true that our most successful teams have had an All-American. Of course, part of that is just that we have had so many years with an All-American: 22 of 39 seasons.

    One thing to add: it doesn’t necessarily have to be Johnson that has the monster year. If Hurt does return, he is the kind of prospect who could make that jump to stardom as a soph. I guess one shouldn’t rule out Moore or Stanley (if he returns) in a “Luke Kennard type of sophomore explosion” season. If I was handicapping things, I would put Johnson and Hurt as the most likely to achieve it.

    One more thing to add: the past does not necessarily dictate the future. While we have not had many teams succeed without a nationally-recognized Star, it has happened before (even for us, and certainly for other programs). Maybe it is a team like 2008 Kansas, who had a bunch of very good players but no superstars so good that they earned national honors. Unlikely? Sure. But winning the title is always unlikely.

    I mean, I sure hope we have an All-American next year. But we can be successful even without one.
    I hope Johnson, Hurt, Moore and Stanley are all studs for Duke next year but if Stanley returns, he’s going to be the man for Duke.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I hope Johnson, Hurt, Moore and Stanley are all studs for Duke next year but if Stanley returns, he’s going to be the man for Duke.
    Given the frequency with which his spectacular dunks were featured in ESPN's Top Ten Plays of the Day last season, I think that if Stanley returns, he's going to be one of the most-hyped college basketball players in the country.

  12. #332
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    What about the 2006 and 2007 Florida squads? I know Horford and Noah went on to be high draft picks and stars in the NBA (and Corey Brewer was a first rounder as well I believe), but I don't recall anyone on those squads winning much in the way of national awards at the college level, despite the team success.
    In 2007 Noah was a second-teamer. But 2006 would fit the same bill as 2008 Kansas (and 2013 Louisville and 2019 UVa, among others).

  13. #333
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I hope Johnson, Hurt, Moore and Stanley are all studs for Duke next year but if Stanley returns, he’s going to be the man for Duke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Gator View Post
    Given the frequency with which his spectacular dunks were featured in ESPN's Top Ten Plays of the Day last season, I think that if Stanley returns, he's going to be one of the most-hyped college basketball players in the country.
    First, I will say that I VERY much hope for Stanley’s return. That said, I do wonder if his stardom is somewhat capped by his limited ability to create his own shot. But I certainly hope we get the chance to find out!

  14. #334

    Yes, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    What about the 2006 and 2007 Florida squads? I know Horford and Noah went on to be high draft picks and stars in the NBA (and Corey Brewer was a first rounder as well I believe), but I don't recall anyone on those squads winning much in the way of national awards at the college level, despite the team success.
    The NBA draft is another way of measuring individual excellence, so i think those UF teams make the same point that talent wins championships since Horford was taken third, Brewer seventh, and Noah ninth in 2007. I suspect Florida had the best recruiting class since John Wooden’s glory days at UCLA, but IIRC they were ranked as the #10 freshman class at the time. Tubby Smith had the #1 class, but that group won the SEC and got to the Elite Eight as freshmen, but were #4 in the league and made the round of 32 as sophomores and juniors. It’s little wonder that Tubby left for Minnesota in 2007.

  15. #335
    Back to Patrick Tape'. It is a small sample size but if you look at the 3 games against BC, Northwestern and Rutgers he averaged over 15ppg and a block per game. His rebounding was ok at 5 per game.

    He also scored more in the Ivy League Tourny averaging over 17ppg 1block and 6rpg.

    I don't think he will offer what Jav did. Jav was a better athlete, and a much better defender. What I would expect is for Tape' to try to score some which would will be good since Mark Williams is supposed be to more developed on the defensive part of his game. The difference in playing styles might be good.

  16. #336
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Since the ACC is usually the best, or among the best, conferences in the country, I think stud should be expanded to also include All-ACC performers.



    Jim beat me to it. I'd say both Jayson and Brandon were studs, b/c they could both absolutely take over on offense at times, were at least passable of defense, and were versatile enough that they contributed in multiple ways.



    I hope Duke has done its due diligence, but Tapé did sit out last year with an injury, which afaik hasn't been disclosed, so he may/not have issues.
    Do you have evidence that he sat out "with an injury?" I don't believe that's true, but maybe you do have evidence. This link states pretty clearly that he sat out with the season with the clear intention of being a grad transfer, and there is no mention of injury.
    http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2019/11/02...-on-halloween/

  17. #337
    Do you follow Ball Durham, another fan blog? I had to stop. They are obsessive about every little thing to the point of being hyperbolic. The latest example was Patrick Tape.

    The Duke men's basketball twitter account put out a pic and quote now that Tape signed his paperwork. Curiously, the twitter account deleted the tweet. Instead of playing it safe, Ball Durham decides to write a breathless blog post, "Duke basketball: Social media deletions puts cloud over Patrick Tape saga.."

    Now, with everything that had gone on with Tape, fans are understandably on edge. Not hours after the post from BD, the Duke MBB twitter account reposts the pic/quote of Tape. The reason for the switch? The original pic of Tape has him in a #3 jersey.


  18. #338
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Do you follow Ball Durham, another fan blog? I had to stop. They are obsessive about every little thing to the point of being hyperbolic. The latest example was Patrick Tape.

    The Duke men's basketball twitter account put out a pic and quote now that Tape signed his paperwork. Curiously, the twitter account deleted the tweet. Instead of playing it safe, Ball Durham decides to write a breathless blog post, "Duke basketball: Social media deletions puts cloud over Patrick Tape saga.."

    Now, with everything that had gone on with Tape, fans are understandably on edge. Not hours after the post from BD, the Duke MBB twitter account reposts the pic/quote of Tape. The reason for the switch? The original pic of Tape has him in a #3 jersey. ...
    Was that the number of times he committed to Duke?

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Do you have evidence that he sat out "with an injury?" I don't believe that's true, but maybe you do have evidence. This link states pretty clearly that he sat out with the season with the clear intention of being a grad transfer, and there is no mention of injury.
    http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2019/11/02...-on-halloween/
    Not sure it is evidence but they mention a toe ligament injury.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esp...platform%3Damp

  20. #340
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Not sure it is evidence but they mention a toe ligament injury.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esp...platform%3Damp
    Toe injury? Definitely a Duke kind of guy.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

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