Expectations for Roach & Steward

[jimsumner]

Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward

Bart Simpson at the blackboard?

[Indoor66]

Yeah, but the heels looked good.

[jv001]

Yeah, but the heels looked good.

We've always got that. Even if they are good next season. Two things they will not be able to shake. Last season and the biggest cheats of all time.

GoDuke!

[SilkyJ]

He is a lot like Duhon in a way but he also brings that chip like Tre and J Williams where he will get in the lane and jam it.

I will admit I haven't seen every minute of Tre Jones' play at Duke (I'm on the west coast so sometimes I'd skip the losses on the DVR when I'd get home...sanity first...), but I saw 90% of those minutes and don't ever recall him jamming it in traffic. I do recall him missing a dunk on a breakaway. Don't remember him ever attempting a dunk again in college after that...oddly I also remember Duhon missing MULTIPLE dunks as a frosh (maybe soph too?) and then going back to layups only.

JWill, on the other hand, had elite athleticism at the rim. Tre was a good finisher below the rim, but not sure I would use those two as a similar comp. JWill was in a category of his own there (could add Johnny Dawkins and Nolan Smith to a certain extent...)

I suspect Roach will be more Tre/Duhon like in his finishing than JWill...if he approaches Nolan then we're in good shape. (And yes, I've seen his HS highlights. Tre also dunked a lot in HS...the ACC ain't HS...)

[Oriole Way]

I will admit I haven't seen every minute of Tre Jones' play at Duke (I'm on the west coast so sometimes I'd skip the losses on the DVR when I'd get home...sanity first...), but I saw 90% of those minutes and don't ever recall him jamming it in traffic. I do recall him missing a dunk on a breakaway. Don't remember him ever attempting a dunk again in college after that...oddly I also remember Duhon missing MULTIPLE dunks as a frosh (maybe soph too?) and then going back to layups only.

JWill, on the other hand, had elite athleticism at the rim. Tre was a good finisher below the rim, but not sure I would use those two as a similar comp. JWill was in a category of his own there (could add Johnny Dawkins and Nolan Smith to a certain extent...)

I suspect Roach will be more Tre/Duhon like in his finishing than JWill...if he approaches Nolan then we're in good shape. (And yes, I've seen his HS highlights. Tre also dunked a lot in HS...the ACC ain't HS...)

Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

[Devilwin]

Dunk or layup, the key word here is"finish".

[dukelion]

Since we're all locked down more or less he's a great video of Roach recently in action.

Spoiler...he played great although I don't think he made or even attempted a single jumper.

https://youtu.be/V8_MIhyKxoY

[SilkyJ]

Since we're all locked down more or less he's a great video of Roach recently in action.

Spoiler...he played great although I don't think he made or even attempted a single jumper.

https://youtu.be/V8_MIhyKxoY

Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji.

We’ve all seen the one video where he jams it once. It’s not recent either—its from two months ago—and he’s wide open in transition (also it looks like he barely got the ball over the rim). Tre has a video where he does the same in HS: right here. Don’t see how Roach’s dunks look anymore impressive than that one...do you? Don’t overestimate one video.

I think you guys are guilty of the common “moving on + recency bias.” The next recruit becomes better than whoever we just had...and in this case who we just had was a top 10 recruit who just won ACC POY

[Oriole Way]

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji.

We’ve all seen the one video where he jams it once. It’s not recent either—its from two months ago—and he’s wide open in transition (also it looks like he barely got the ball over the rim). Tre has a video where he does the same in HS: right here. Don’t see how Roach’s dunks look anymore impressive than that one...do you? Don’t overestimate one video.

I think you guys are guilty of the common “moving on + recency bias.” The next recruit becomes better than whoever we just had...and in this case who we just had was a top 10 recruit who just won ACC POY

No, I meant "video" in the plural form. Did not base my assessment on a single video. It's not a stretch at all to project Roach as a better athlete, better dunker, and better at getting to the rim through contact. Those just weren't strengths of Tre's (or Duhon's) game. Doesn't take away from the fact Tre was a fantastic point guard who took care of the ball, was one of the best defending PG's in Duke's history, significantly improved his 3-pt. shot as a sophomore, and he had a better mid-range jumper/floater than Roach or Duhon.

Either way, looking forward to seeing Jeremy play next season. If anything, because it means we're back to a more normal way of life.

[lotusland]

If Stanely does return (fingers crossed) I think he will be the Tre Jones of next year’s team. Not in the same role that Tre filled as playmaker but as a 35 mpg starter, leader and focal point. That’s going to mean less will be asked of the freshmen which is a good thing. JGold is going to play and possibly start (like he often did this year) so guard/wing minutes will be less plentiful. Roach will play but how much will be determined by whether he is more Tre Jones as a frosh than Derryck Thornton or Trevon Duval. Moore, Stanley and JGold are going to play. Hurt and Johnson (I assume) are going to play. So the rest will divvy up the remaining minutes which will probably vary wildly from game to game.

[Jaks19]

Roach is not Tre or Duhon, or Williams or Duval etc...

He might remind us of those players with how parts of his game are played.

Offensively: his mid range and finishing around the rim are good. His 3 point stroke is a work in progress but it appears much improved after watching some HS games of his. He also said he is much more confident in it. This is the area of his game that might cause some people to think of a Fr Tre or Duval

As a floor general: He is a very good passer and facilitator of an offense. This has been a strength of his throughout his HS career.

Size for a PG: At 6-2 and 180, he is about the same as JGold but build a little thicker.

Athletically: He is a good athlete and will jam down a dunk when possible. Lateral movements and such are still going to be in question when coming of an ACL injury

Defensively: He is focused and adds a lot of pressure on the opposing ball handler. Gets his share of takeaways.

I think it is safe to say, he will be the starting PG next year.

[jv001]

Roach is not Tre or Duhon, or Williams or Duval etc...

He might remind us of those players with how parts of his game are played.

Offensively: his mid range and finishing around the rim are good. His 3 point stroke is a work in progress but it appears much improved after watching some HS games of his. He also said he is much more confident in it. This is the area of his game that might cause some people to think of a Fr Tre or Duval

As a floor general: He is a very good passer and facilitator of an offense. This has been a strength of his throughout his HS career.

Size for a PG: At 6-2 and 180, he is about the same as JGold but build a little thicker.

Athletically: He is a good athlete and will jam down a dunk when possible. Lateral movements and such are still going to be in question when coming of an ACL injury

Defensively: He is focused and adds a lot of pressure on the opposing ball handler. Gets his share of takeaways.

I think it is safe to say, he will be the starting PG next year.

Thank you for the info on Roach. The description of his shooting sort of scares me. If he shoots like Duval but may not be as quick as Duval on defense, then I'm concerned. Duval was able to make up for his lack of shooting by being a very good defender and he could drive the ball. Even though his decision making wasn't always the best. I would take a freshmen Tre look-a-like if he's able to defend. I guess we'll have to see how Roach has recovered from his ACL injury in determining how good he'll be.

GoDuke!

[CDu]

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji

I haven't seen anyone suggest that Roach will be better than Jones was this year, so this response seems out of line.

All I have seen is some folks suggesting he'll be a better athlete than Jones. Which, coincidentally enough, seems to be consistent with the scouting reports for each guy. Jones was an "intangibles" guy with okay athleticism and super-high bball IQ. Roach is considered a pretty athletic PG.

[lotusland]

Yeah with PGs in particular it’s hard to tell how their senior year in HS will translate to their freshman year in college. Roach is coming off an injury which reminds me of Quinn Cook who had some flashy mix-tapes and HS all-star games in HS but was physically unable to defend his freshman year.

[kAzE]

I see Roach as a prototypical guard. He's someone who has good ball skills and the ability to penetrate the defense, two things I was never totally satisfied with in regards to Tre Jones' game as a play maker. This is not to say that I think Roach is a better player than Tre. Roach is quicker and has better ability to break down the defense with his dribble. I haven't seen enough of Roach to understand how he operates as a decision maker, which is going to be a major factor in his NBA potential. Based on his physical profile, he doesn't strike me as an elite athlete, although he can play above the rim. He's just undersized. I don't believe he will be a big time scorer as a freshman. We just have so many options on offense. I do like his potential for some good assist numbers, though.

Steward is another quick but undersized guard, who is more of a scorer than distributor. I think the 2 guys will fit together on the court very well. Steward is most effective with the ball in his hands, but has very good scoring instincts and is also a very skilled ball handler in his own right. He should win the nod as a starter if he can hold up on the defensive end. His scoring ability will be hard to keep on the bench, and I think he can get to double digit points per game if he plays enough.

I don't expect either Roach or Steward to be as good as Tre Jones was this year. I think the key to next year's team will be the versatility we have. If Hurt and Moore make a jump from freshman to sophomore year, to go along with Jalen Johnson we'll have 3 high-impact players on offense. I'd also expect Steward to be a pretty darn good offensive player immediately. Roach is a little harder to read, but I'd expect a pretty solid PG at the minimum. But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

I agree with a lot of this. But I'm lower on Wendell Moore than you are, I think. His best quality is his defensive versatility. If we had other options this past year, I don't think he would have had the ball in his hands nearly as much as he did. He could improve, but I think with 3 guys who can REALLY handle the ball in Roach, Steward, and Johnson, Wendell running Duke's offense is going to be more of a rarity. Matthew Hurt has a huge range of outcomes. If he gets a lot stronger, he could lead the team in scoring, or he could just continue to be someone who can't stay on the floor against certain match ups. Either way, I think our offense will be very good, if not top 5. The questions are all on defense.

[jv001]

I expect Roach to be a prototypical guard. He's someone who has good ball skills and the ability to penetrate the defense, two things I was never totally satisfied with in regards to Tre Jones' game as a play maker. This is not to say that I think Roach is a better player than Tre. Roach is quicker and has better ability to break down the defense with his dribble. I haven't seen enough of Roach to understand how he operates as a decision maker, which is fundamental to playing the point guard position, and will be the determining factor for whether Roach is a one and done type of talent or someone who may stick around for a few years. Based on his physical profile, he doesn't strike me as an elite athlete, although he can play above the rim. He's just undersized. I don't believe he will be a big time scorer as a freshman. We just have so many options on offense. I do like his potential for some good assist numbers, though.

Steward is another quick but undersized guard, who is more of a scorer than distributor. I think the 2 guys will fit together on the court very well. Steward is most effective with the ball in his hands, but has very good scoring instincts and is also a very skilled ball handler in his own right. He should win the nod as a starter if he can hold up on the defensive end. His scoring ability will be hard to keep on the bench, and I think he can get to double digit points per game if he plays enough.



I agree with a lot of this. But I'm lower on Wendell Moore than you are, I think. His best quality is his defensive versatility. If we had other options this past year, I don't think he would have had the ball in his hands nearly as much as he did. He could improve, but I think with 3 guys who can REALLY handle the ball in Roach, Steward, and Johnson, Wendell running Duke's offense is going to be more of a rarity. Matthew Hurt has a huge range of outcomes. If he gets a lot stronger, he could lead the team in scoring, or he could just continue to be someone who can't stay on the floor against certain match ups. Either way, I think our offense will be very good, if not top 5. The questions are all on defense.

I'm with you on Wendell. I think he could be All-ACC good or he could play about the same amount of minutes he got this season. He's an excellent foul shooter with very good form and that should translate to being a good perimeter shooter. However he hesitates when he's open and many times he ends up driving into a crowd and turns the ball over. I believe that comes from thinking too much and not reacting to what the defense is giving him. I'm 60% thinking he will improve in decision making and shooting this season. That of course is if he returns to Duke. As for the freshmen, I have no high expectations but I don't have any negative vibes either. I'll just wait for my eye test.

GoDuke!

[SilkyJ]

I haven't seen anyone suggest that Roach will be better than Jones was this year, so this response seems out of line.

All I have seen is some folks suggesting he'll be a better athlete than Jones. Which, coincidentally enough, seems to be consistent with the scouting reports for each guy. Jones was an "intangibles" guy with okay athleticism and super-high bball IQ. Roach is considered a pretty athletic PG.

My response was to the below post, suggesting Roach could be a better dunk and overall finisher than Tre. So he suggested Roach would be better than Tre in this regard. So not out of line at all. I think you've just been salty the last few days.

Needlesstosay, I think that's a bold statement to make at this stage (that Roach > Tre as a finisher)

If Roach scores 15 straight points, on the road, against our arch-rival, with the majority of them coming on drives to the rim, I'll change my mind

Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

[Jaks19]

Duke will be young with Roach, Steward and Moore but each have potential to be very good defenders. Add in JGold and that groups is going to cause some major issues for opposing teams.

[UrinalCake]

I expect our backcourt to be much more dynamic on offense than this past season. I loved Tre as everybody else does, but he had his weaknesses and the backcourt as a whole struggled on offense more often than we'd like to admit this season. Even though we finished the season strong, there were many stretches where our offense was really stagnant, we relied entirely on Tre creating everything and that's not his strength. So while we're not going to have anyone who can match his defensive lockdown potential, I'm looking forward to having multiple ball handlers and multiple guys who can create their own shot. I could see Goldwire and Roach having a Wojo/William Avery kind of dynamic where the older veteran guy plays hard-nosed D and the younger guy has more scoring potential, and fans spend all season arguing over who should be getting more PT.

[soflabluedevil]

To be fair, nobody is going to be as good as Zion, and probably not as good as Bagley. But those are pretty high bars. Jalen Johnson MIGHT be as good as Carey. But I don't know that we need to have anyone be THAT good to be successful next year. Hurt and Moore as sophomores should be contenders for All-ACC teams. Jalen Johnson should be in the discussion for ACC PoY, and certainly in the 1st Team All-ACC discussion. And then we should have some other good freshmen to add to the mix along with a solid role player guard in senior Goldwire. The wild cards are Williams, Brakefield, and Baker.

Repeat-no one will be as good as Zion, and also Bagley. If one of them is as good as Carey as a freshman we will be pleasantly surprised. Part of this is they will be playing in a tougher league next year than Carey faced this past year.