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  1. #741
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Here you go:

    2012: 4524
    2013: 4143
    2014: 4142
    2017: 3932
    2020: 3388
    2015: 3277
    2016: 2375
    2021: 2322
    2019: 1559
    2018: 1412

    So, (a) 2021 is still near the bottom in Duke history in this metric (though 3rd lowest instead of 2nd lowest); and (b) I don't think ignoring experience gained before the previous season makes much sense.
    Have you pointed out that the 2020 season was truncated ? Including both the ACC's and the NCAA's, Duke missed out on two to nine more games than the 31 played.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  2. #742
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Have you pointed out that the 2020 season was truncated ? Including both the ACC's and the NCAA's, Duke missed out on two to nine more games than the 31 played.
    Indeed. And they missed out on all the personal development those extra games and practices would have offered. The stats folks will have to figure some clever ways to present it. Or perhaps just add a covid-asterisk.

    -jk

  3. #743
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Have you pointed out that the 2020 season was truncated ? Including both the ACC's and the NCAA's, Duke missed out on two to nine more games than the 31 played.
    A good point, but it would only shift things by one spot, and probably by less than 400 total minutes.

    Of course, the counterpoint is that only one returning player has any meaningful tournament experience at the college level.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Indeed. And they missed out on all the personal development those extra games and practices would have offered. The stats folks will have to figure some clever ways to present it. Or perhaps just add a covid-asterisk.

    -jk
    Or maybe just not worry it.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    A good point, but it would only shift things by one spot, and probably by less than 400 total minutes.

    Of course, the counterpoint is that only one returning player has any meaningful tournament experience at the college level.
    Yes, this is exactly what I think.

    Whether or not, under normal circumstances, this year's returnees would have had more experience, the fact is they didn't. Being deprived of playing in tournaments doesn't grant any of the wisdom, familiarity, or exposure that actually being on the court would have. All they are is a little older. Even if you want to look at something like combined seasons of practice, this coming year's team's total of 7 (3 for Jordan; 2 for Joey; 1 each for Matthew and Wendell) is also the lowest Duke total ever.

    As a group, they'll have the 2nd lowest returning minutes in Duke history (3rd lowest from previous season), and will combine for a total of 51 ACC tournament minutes and 54 NCAA tournament minutes (only 3 minutes combined after the 2nd round of the NCAAT), which has to be the lowest Duke total ever for the ACC tournament and for the NCAAT, the lowest Duke total since 1984. No matter how you slice it, it's a very inexperienced "veteran core."

  6. #746
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    The older one gets, the more of a generation gap starts to appear. I am now at the age where my kids are more-or-less the same age as Duke's players so this may just be evidence of losing touch with youth culture, but...

    Does anyone else find the "announcements" of Matthew Hurt and Wendell Moore returning for their sophomore years to be a little much? Granted, they didn't do the same kind of video announcement done by high school commits, and there was some doubt that they could leave, but both announcements still had a formal quality that I found to be ridiculous. Last year, with Tre, it made more sense to me as he could have ridden the momentum from that star packed class and Zion-hype machine to a one-and-done conclusion. Where is that line drawn now?

    It has become apparent, more then ever, that no roster is safe upon completion of any season. It seems that the coaching staff pretty much has to recruit the entire squad at the end of every season - they have to address transfer possibilities and going pro possibilities for a large % of the team and then have to reassure high school recruits about all-of-the-above and try to time the transfer market so as not to commit to early lest some jewel of a kid becomes available in the portal - and, man, there are some really great players hitting the portal every year.

    If you are a highly touted recruit, I guess you have the ability, at the end of each season, to ponder your commitment to the program over a prolonged period of time until you have the opportunity to build the tension and then release it to a grateful fan base? Was this year different because of the unprecedented nature of the way the season ended? Is the program, and it's social media mastery complicit in the whole pageantry of the process, carefully coordinating, "I'm leaving" and "I'm coming back" announcements to milk the maximum amount of attention for the program?

    So, these "I'm staying" announcements, delivered via very slickly packaged, social-media-driven "posts", which are no doubt designed by Dave Bradley's crew, are now part of the currency to hype the importance of players who played a small to moderately larger role on one year's team but are stepping up front-and-center in the coming year. When we marvel at K, his ability to not only tolerate but thrive amidst these changing mores needs to be at the top of the list.

  7. #747
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    So, these "I'm staying" announcements, delivered via very slickly packaged, social-media-driven "posts", which are no doubt designed by Dave Bradley's crew, are now part of the currency to hype the importance of players who played a small to moderately larger role on one year's team but are stepping up front-and-center in the coming year. When we marvel at K, his ability to not only tolerate but thrive amidst these changing mores needs to be at the top of the list.
    It's part of the currency of currency. Views = $$$

    Further, if the argument for college for these kids is they can bolster their brand, then, well, we're just coming clean on our part. Do I care? No. People do. We take advantage of it. duke blue planet showed us how such a presence can change how players view the program at large. If we don't control the message, someone else might.

    Its more about media realities in today's age than it is about "hyping the importance of players." Will it get views? Perfect. Ship it. Doesn't matter what it is. All the more important as people are straining for anything to draw their interest in sports right now.
    1200. DDMF.

  8. #748
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    It's part of the currency of currency. Views = $$$

    Further, if the argument for college for these kids is they can bolster their brand, then, well, we're just coming clean on our part. Do I care? No. People do. We take advantage of it. duke blue planet showed us how such a presence can change how players view the program at large. If we don't control the message, someone else might.

    Its more about media realities in today's age than it is about "hyping the importance of players." Will it get views? Perfect. Ship it. Doesn't matter what it is. All the more important as people are straining for anything to draw their interest in sports right now.
    Good points.

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