Who Stays - Who Goes

[dm9e24]

Jordan could be next season's Quinn.

I said the same thing and pretty much got taken to the woodshed too. Looking back at it, Jordan doesn't seem to have Quinn's magnetic personality, as Quinn has continued to show with teammates in the nba. But it will be valuable to have a senior who knows the system, as overachieved and earned meaningful minutes and one who K trust. I think he will be a good leader in his own way, which will be important on a team heavily reliant on freshmen and sophomores.

[frb]

I said the same thing and pretty much got taken to the woodshed too. Looking back at it, Jordan doesn't seem to have Quinn's magnetic personality, as Quinn has continued to show with teammates in the nba. But it will be valuable to have a senior who knows the system, as overachieved and earned meaningful minutes and one who K trust. I think he will be a good leader in his own way, which will be important on a team heavily reliant on freshmen and sophomores.

Jordan doesn't have the offensive game Quinn had. Jordan will pass up open shots. He's just not much of an offensive threat. Good defender thus why he gets PT. He's Tyler Thornton basically.

[Scorp4me]

Jordan doesn't have the offensive game Quinn had. Jordan will pass up open shots. He's just not much of an offensive threat. Good defender thus why he gets PT. He's Tyler Thornton basically.

And we all know Tyler Thornton was suchhhhh a popular player on these boards haha.

[JasonEvans]

Sigh... appears all the hints and prodding from Joey did not good. Best wishes to Cassisus. He's gonna be on more than a few Sportscenter Top Tens next year in the NBA, I suspect.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Sigh... appears all the hints and prodding from Joey did not good. Best wishes to Cassisus. He's gonna be on more than a few Sportscenter Top Tens next year in the NBA, I suspect.

It was expected, although I did get my hopes up for a brief moment. Once I had some good shower thoughts about it, though, I was convinced he was going to the NBA. He's turning 21 this summer. That isn't a huge issue because the NBA clearly doesn't mind drafting guys in their 20's - Cam Johnson, Mattisse Thybulle, and Brandon Clarke last year were all 22+ and 1st rounders. But the issue is that the draft class next year is going to be stacked with guards and wings.

A player like Stanley is going to rise in the current environment. He's been scouted heavily while at Duke. We've seen him jump out of the gym. NBA teams have seen him knock down jumpers, too. I think he's going to picked somewhat early and may even be the first Blue Devils off the board.

As for the Duke roster for next year, it looks both deep and balanced.

PG: Roach, Goldwire
SG: Moore, Steward
SF: Johnson, Baker, Brakefield
PF: Hurt, Coleman
C: Williams, Tape

At the start of the season, I don't think we'll see much of Coleman while Baker and Brakefield are going to fight for minutes. My ideal lineup is Roach, Steward, Moore, Johnson, and Hurt. In the offseason, if Moore can gain confidence in his jumper and if Hurt can gain strength and assertiveness, I think Duke has a really high ceiling.

[scottdude8]

It was expected, although I did get my hopes up for a brief moment. Once I had some good shower thoughts about it, though, I was convinced he was going to the NBA. He's turning 21 this summer. That isn't a huge issue because the NBA clearly doesn't mind drafting guys in their 20's - Cam Johnson, Mattisse Thybulle, and Brandon Clarke last year were all 22+ and 1st rounders. But the issue is that the draft class next year is going to be stacked with guards and wings.

A player like Stanley is going to rise in the current environment. He's been scouted heavily while at Duke. We've seen him jump out of the gym. NBA teams have seen him knock down jumpers, too. I think he's going to picked somewhat early and may even be the first Blue Devils off the board.

As for the Duke roster for next year, it looks both deep and balanced.

PG: Roach, Goldwire
SG: Moore, Steward
SF: Johnson, Baker, Brakefield
PF: Hurt, Coleman
C: Williams, Tape

At the start of the season, I don't think we'll see much of Coleman while Baker and Brakefield are going to fight for minutes. My ideal lineup is Roach, Steward, Moore, Johnson, and Hurt. In the offseason, if Moore can gain confidence in his jumper and if Hurt can gain strength and assertiveness, I think Duke has a really high ceiling.

I'm with you as one of the guys who got his hopes up. The ceiling for next year's squad with Cassius on it was extremely high. It remains high, but not nearly as much.

Now an official decision from Matt is all the more important. Having two sophomores who have been through the grind leading the team is a luxury in the OAD era, and one that could make a huge difference for us... not to mention the obvious fact that Matt's presence would create a lot more flexibility in the possible lineups we could play. The decisions have been coming quickly the past few days, so hopefully we get some good news in some form soon, we all deserve some

[SilkyJ]

Sigh... appears all the hints and prodding from Joey did not good. Best wishes to Cassisus. He's gonna be on more than a few Sportscenter Top Tens next year in the NBA, I suspect.

I don’t think he’ll see much run next year. Suspect he will struggle a bit from extended NBA 3-line, plus handles aren’t ready to be a 2-guard in the league. He’ll be mostly a DNP-CD I suspect...(doesn’t mean wrong decision to go—I think he’ll make a 15-man roster given his explosiveness, but its not a guarantee).

[roywhite]

I don’t think he’ll see much run next year. Suspect he will struggle a bit from extended NBA 3-line, plus handles aren’t ready to be a 2-guard in the league. He’ll be mostly a DNP-CD I suspect...(doesn’t mean wrong decision to go—I think he’ll make a 15-man roster given his explosiveness, but its not a guarantee).

Yeah, I could definitely see that for Cassius. On the other hand, I can see him with a 10-year NBA career. It'll be up to him and the team that selects him to continue to work on his game. He got the physical tools and seems to have a good attitude and work ethic.

[Kedsy]

Yeah, I could definitely see that for Cassius. On the other hand, I can see him with a 10-year NBA career. It'll be up to him and the team that selects him to continue to work on his game. He got the physical tools and seems to have a good attitude and work ethic.

Your thoughts and SilkyJ's are not mutually exclusive. You could both be right.

[79-77]

Like all the OADs, Cassius struck me as a good kid whom I wish we’d had more time with.

I think he had the highest upside on the team this year and that after an adjustment period he will be a very good pro.

I sure hope Hurt and Moore return. I don’t think either of them would make an NBA roster next year so hopefully they will choose Duke over the G league.

[proelitedota]

After Stanley's declaration, I've adjusted the depth chart.

Center: Jaemyn Brakefield <-> Patrick Tape, Mark Williams, Henry Coleman
PF: Jalen Johnsen, Matthew Hurt, Jaemyn Brakefield, Joey Baker, Henry Coleman
SF: Wendell Moore, Matthew Hurt, Joey Baker
SG: DJ Steward, JGold, Wendell Moore, Joey Baker, Matthew Hurt
PG: Jeremy Roach, JGold, Wendell Moore, Jalen Johnsen

At least 3 deep at each spot due to the flexibility of the roster. I expect Hurt, if back, to focus on gaining speed and playing more on the perimeter ala junior Singler.

[Troublemaker]

After Stanley's declaration, I've adjusted the depth chart.

Center: Jaemyn Brakefield <-> Patrick Tape, Mark Williams, Henry Coleman
PF: Jalen Johnsen, Matthew Hurt, Jaemyn Brakefield, Joey Baker, Henry Coleman
SF: Wendell Moore, Matthew Hurt, Joey Baker
SG: DJ Steward, JGold, Wendell Moore, Joey Baker, Matthew Hurt
PG: Jeremy Roach, JGold, Wendell Moore, Jalen Johnsen

At least 3 deep at each spot due to the flexibility of the roster. I expect Hurt, if back, to focus on gaining speed and playing more on the perimeter ala junior Singler.

I really doubt that Jaemyn, a forward that isn't any bigger than Jalen Johnson and who is ranked #37 in the country, will be much of a factor for the starting center spot.

It should be noted that Jaemyn and Jalen played on the same AAU team. Jaemyn averaged 6.1 rebounds/gm while Jalen averaged 9.1 rebounds/gm. I think if either is a center, it's Jalen.

[jv001]

I really doubt that Jaemyn, a forward that isn't any bigger than Jalen Johnson and who is ranked #37 in the country, will be much of a factor for the starting center spot.

It should be noted that Jaemyn and Jalen played on the same AAU team. Jaemyn averaged 6.1 rebounds/gm while Jalen averaged 9.1 rebounds/gm. I think if either is a center, it's Jalen.

I agree and if Hurt returns I expect Matthew to be in the starting lineup. I know he's not your typical 5 but he would be a mismatch problem on the offensive end but he needs to improve his rebounding and get stronger. We have some question marks when it comes to shooting the basketball and our best defenders are not our most dependable scorers. Moore, Roach and Jalen are not considered good outside shooters. Matter of fact Goldwire might be a better perimeter shooter than Moore, Roach or Jalen. Returning players that need to improve areas or their games are: Moore=ball handling, outside shooting and decision making, Hurt=add strength and rebounding, Baker= improve his defense and Jordan= improve handle and finish his shot.

GoDuke!

[scottdude8]

I agree and if Hurt returns I expect Matthew to be in the starting lineup. I know he's not your typical 5 but he would be a mismatch problem on the offensive end but he needs to improve his rebounding and get stronger. We have some question marks when it comes to shooting the basketball and our best defenders are not our most dependable scorers. Moore, Roach and Jalen are not considered good outside shooters. Matter of fact Goldwire might be a better perimeter shooter than Moore, Roach or Jalen. Returning players that need to improve areas or their games are: Moore=ball handling, outside shooting and decision making, Hurt=add strength and rebounding, Baker= improve his defense and Jordan= improve handle and finish his shot.

GoDuke!

Playing Matthew at the 5 would give us a lineup that looked like what we had in 2007 and some portions of 2008 with Singler at the 5. Those lineups posed matchup problems on offense but had lots of defensive/rebounding issues.

I would also imagine that Matt knows that’s probably not where his NBA future lies. I think a scenario where he focuses on getting a bit faster and playing like a true “stretch 4” is more likely.

[MChambers]

Playing Matthew at the 5 would give us a lineup that looked like what we had in 2007 and some portions of 2008 with Singler at the 5. Those lineups posed matchup problems on offense but had lots of defensive/rebounding issues.

I would also imagine that Matt knows that’s probably not where his NBA future lies. I think a scenario where he focuses on getting a bit faster and playing like a true “stretch 4” is more likely.

What do we mean when we say Hurt at the 5? Offensively, he'll probably be on the perimeter, unless he has a smaller player on him. Defensively, he might or might not match up with the other team's best low post player. I think it's more likely that Johnson and Tape get the bulk of those assignments.

[scottdude8]

What do we mean when we say Hurt at the 5? Offensively, he'll probably be on the perimeter, unless he has a smaller player on him. Defensively, he might or might not match up with the other team's best low post player. I think it's more likely that Johnson and Tape get the bulk of those assignments.

That's a valid point. I think a lot of it will depend on the team we're playing. If we're playing FSU or UNC, a frontcourt of Hurt and Johnson might get bullied. Against the more typical modern team that plays smaller and/or only had one traditional big on the floor, that lineup could work defensively.

I think that, much like this year, our lineups are going to vary widely next season. This year Tre and Vern (and towards the end of the season Cassius) were the 3 constants in the lineup with the other two players varying based on matchup/situation. I can forsee a very similar situation next year where the "core 3" are Matt (assuming he progresses like we're all hoping), Wendell, and Jalen.

[jv001]

That's a valid point. I think a lot of it will depend on the team we're playing. If we're playing FSU or UNC, a frontcourt of Hurt and Johnson might get bullied. Against the more typical modern team that plays smaller and/or only had one traditional big on the floor, that lineup could work defensively.

I think that, much like this year, our lineups are going to vary widely next season. This year Tre and Vern (and towards the end of the season Cassius) were the 3 constants in the lineup with the other two players varying based on matchup/situation. I can forsee a very similar situation next year where the "core 3" are Matt (assuming he progresses like we're all hoping), Wendell, and Jalen.

And the last few games of this past season, J-Rob was used with Vernon against teams like the cheats. We all might be missing something with Williams as our 5. The coaches evidently think Williams, Tape and Coleman will do fine at the 5. My main point is if Hurt returns, I think he will start from day one. We need some shooters in our lineup and Matthew is better suited for PF or SF and not at the 5. The players that seem to be our best shooters are: Hurt, Baker, Steward and Jordan. It's all just speculation at this point anyway.

GoDuke!

[CDu]

I really doubt that Jaemyn, a forward that isn't any bigger than Jalen Johnson and who is ranked #37 in the country, will be much of a factor for the starting center spot.

It should be noted that Jaemyn and Jalen played on the same AAU team. Jaemyn averaged 6.1 rebounds/gm while Jalen averaged 9.1 rebounds/gm. I think if either is a center, it's Jalen.

Agreed. By the same argument, I don't think there is any way Matthew Hurt or Joey Baker are playing SG. In Hurt's case, I don't even think SF is all that realistic.

What do we mean when we say Hurt at the 5? Offensively, he'll probably be on the perimeter, unless he has a smaller player on him. Defensively, he might or might not match up with the other team's best low post player. I think it's more likely that Johnson and Tape get the bulk of those assignments.

Generally when we talk about positions, with the exception of PG, we are talking about defensively. Our offense varies year to year, and the roles on offense are a bit more flexible to be contingent on the skills of the players playing them. It's the defensive end where there is less flexibility, because we have to be able to defend the opposing team's [insert name of position]. So, for example, while Hurt and Baker could in theory play SG offensively, they would struggle drastically on the defensive end.

So, "Hurt at the 5" would mean "Hurt plays defensively against the other team's 5, and offensively plays a more perimeter-oriented role."

[DavidBenAkiva]

One of the hallmarks of Coach K, and one of several reasons I admire him so much, is that he is willing and motivated to tailor the team to the personnel. It's not always a perfect fit (2006-07 comes to mind). But he often can make it fit beautifully (2010, 2013, 2015, etc. come to mind). For a man that is old school in many ways, he has never been intent to fit players into regimented roles, a la Dean Smith and Roy Williams. His system is not in fact a system but one of principles and process.

There is no "5" at Duke. There is no 1, 2, 3, or 4, either. There are players. And those players are going to be allowed to do what they can.

If and when Jeremy Roach and Jordan Goldwire are both on the floor - and I expect to see that a lot - who is the 1 and who is the 2? Will it matter? I suppose Roach will be, but Goldwire will take lead ball handling from time to time. It's fluid. Sub in DJ Steward or Wendell Moore, Jr. and you can ask similar questions.

When Moore, Johnson, and Baker are on the court together, who will be the 3? What happens when they switch? Is Baker still playing the 3? Does it matter?

I am not sure that Matthew Hurt can effectively guard some of the biggest and burliest centers in college basketball. But I bet he can hold his own against a lot of the biggest players that are in college. Let's keep in mind that Patrick Tape, all 6'10" and 220 lbs of him, was the biggest dude at Columbia, a not bad Ivy League team. Tariq Owens, all 6'10" and 205 lbs, was the center for the reigning national runner-ups at Texas Tech. Most nights, I bet Hurt and Jalen Johnson or some other Duke player will be able to match up defensively just fine. And on offense, they will have a lot to offer when those players try to guard Duke when the Blue Devils go "small." And if they struggle, Williams and Tape and maybe Jaeymn Brakefield or Henry Coleman will be there.

I like this roster and love it's flexibility. Now the question is if Coach K can make it fit.

[Troublemaker]

Playing Matthew at the 5 would give us a lineup that looked like what we had in 2007 and some portions of 2008 with Singler at the 5. Those lineups posed matchup problems on offense but had lots of defensive/rebounding issues.

I would also imagine that Matt knows that’s probably not where his NBA future lies. I think a scenario where he focuses on getting a bit faster and playing like a true “stretch 4” is more likely.

But playing either Tape or Williams at center in place of Hurt doesn't make Duke a contender, either. You raise the team's floor (arguably) but lower the team's ceiling.

Essentially, since we don't have *that* much talent (based on priors or recruiting rankings in the case of the incoming frosh), we should use underdog strategies, one of which is to play a volatile (high upside, low floor) lineup to try to create a contender.

Roach - Steward - Moore - Johnson - Hurt

or

Steward - Moore - Baker - Johnson - Hurt

are my two favorite starting lineups for next season.

The idea would be to contend with a team that challenges for the #1 offense in the country and hopefully plays defense well enough to still be #25 or so.

That said...

That's a valid point. I think a lot of it will depend on the team we're playing. If we're playing FSU or UNC, a frontcourt of Hurt and Johnson might get bullied. Against the more typical modern team that plays smaller and/or only had one traditional big on the floor, that lineup could work defensively.

I think that, much like this year, our lineups are going to vary widely next season. This year Tre and Vern (and towards the end of the season Cassius) were the 3 constants in the lineup with the other two players varying based on matchup/situation. I can forsee a very similar situation next year where the "core 3" are Matt (assuming he progresses like we're all hoping), Wendell, and Jalen.

... I would agree that we need to become proficient at playing with a traditional center, too.

We need to become good at both types of lineups. It's just that I believe we should play 60/40 or maybe 70/30 in favor of the Hurt at center lineup.