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  1. #581
    It would be legit IF
    - Roach won the starting PG role and had a good assist to TO ratio
    - Cassius returned and was the starting 2 guard
    - JGold had a similar season to this year but a few more ppg average
    - Steward was the in the top three scorers and coming off the bench.

    That group would be solid defensively too

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    From what I’ve seen Goldwire has (by Duke standards for a PG) average to below-average quickness, average to below-average handles, a below-average shot — both inside and out — and fairly rudimentary passing ability. His defense is probably above average as is his headiness. And I do think he has above-average leadership ability.

    I like Jordan and I’m glad he attends Duke. He has made a lot of progress since his freshman year. I expect him to continue to improve and to be a valuable contributor to the 2020-2021 team.
    K seems to be a fan which is good cause I am too and I want to see him on the court.

    I'm not criticizing you or anyone else, more just a note that fans have different perceptions. I'm often amazed at how fans sometimes seem to constantly clamor for more play from a guy that I wish saw the court less while another player can't get any respect no matter what he does. Goldwire seems to be one of those players (polarizing I mean), but he earned a ton of fans this year. I hope he wins everyone else over this coming year! He's what we have been asking for as a fan base in the OAD era, a player that sticks around, improves, and earns his play.

  3. #583
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Jordan could be next season's Quinn.
    ?

    quinn was a much better shooter and worse defender than goldwide. I don't see the comparison at all.
    1200. DDMF.

  4. #584
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Jordan could be next season's Quinn.
    I admire the optimism, but that would be a HUGE jump for Goldwire. Cook was a two-year starter and 2-year double-digit scorer heading into his senior year. Goldwire has, in 3 years, scored barely more than Cook scored as a freshman backup.

    That isn’t meant to be a knock on Goldwire, but rather a compliment to .
    Cook who scored over 1,500 points at Duke. Goldwire has worked really hard to improve into being a competent role player at the ACC level. But he has basically reached Nate Britt level. That is a big step away from Quinn Cook level.

    I will be happy if Goldwire is at Sean Dockery level next year. That would be a huge accomplishment for a guy who was looking like a low-major caliber player coming out of high school.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    K seems to be a fan which is good cause I am too and I want to see him on the court.

    I'm not criticizing you or anyone else, more just a note that fans have different perceptions. I'm often amazed at how fans sometimes seem to constantly clamor for more play from a guy that I wish saw the court less while another player can't get any respect no matter what he does. Goldwire seems to be one of those players (polarizing I mean), but he earned a ton of fans this year. I hope he wins everyone else over this coming year! He's what we have been asking for as a fan base in the OAD era, a player that sticks around, improves, and earns his play.
    Hmm, I guess you didn’t read the second paragraph I wrote about Jordan.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by SavDukeGrad View Post
    I agree with you, Scott, and came here to post the same thing. I don’t think the Duke social media team would post that unless he’s definitely returning.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Ok, this one may be actual news! The social media hype train just posted Wendell’s vid. Note the caption:

    ��0️⃣ made his mark in Year 1 & the best is yet to come ✊��

    https://www.facebook.com/10287582445...4456/?vh=e&d=n

    Best is yet to come?!?! That’s pretty damn clear, no?
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    hard to imagine Moore leaving anyway, but anything's possible..good to have him back if true...
    What budwom said. Theres no question Moore is coming back / or at least no question he's not sniffingthe NBA next year. The guy who averaged 7ppg, 4rpg, 41% FG% / 21% 3FG%, and an Ast/TO < 1 will get zero interest from the L. Moore isn't going anywhere.

    His only option would be straight to the D League or overseas, but rare to see a Freshman forego growth in college b/c they want to get to the D League quickly (same for overseas). I guess at some point we'll see it...but even then the person will be someone like Marques or Trevon who both had some sort of exceptional skill/asset that the league desires (in Marques' case its size+athleticism/defensive ability / for Trevon explosive athlete/quickness)

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Jordan could be next season's Quinn.
    Not sure that is possible as other have said- but maybe Quinn as a leader - particularly helping to teach the young guys D.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    ?

    quinn was a much better shooter and worse defender than goldwide. I don't see the comparison at all.
    Not my comment, but I assume it’s more of a commentary on the situation: rising veteran guard who will likely take something of a backseat to a more talented incoming freshman. In that sense, sure. Not sure it means a ton, but it’s at least easy to envision a vaguely similar dynamic.

    Also I’m not so sure Quinn was that much worse a defender by senior year. Justise gets the defense reputation on that team but Quinn was regularly taking opposing guards completely out of games.

  9. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oshima25 View Post
    Not my comment, but I assume it’s more of a commentary on the situation: rising veteran guard who will likely take something of a backseat to a more talented incoming freshman. In that sense, sure. Not sure it means a ton, but it’s at least easy to envision a vaguely similar dynamic.

    Also I’m not so sure Quinn was that much worse a defender by senior year. Justise gets the defense reputation on that team but Quinn was regularly taking opposing guards completely out of games.
    IF cassius comes back, I imagine goldwire will be coming off the bench.
    1200. DDMF.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    IF cassius comes back, I imagine goldwire will be coming off the bench.
    Yeah I don't disagree, though I do think lineups will fluctuate. Think we'd probably see occasional stretches with Roach/Goldwire/Cassius all on the floor as well.

    My point wasn't that Goldwire is in fact Quinn, I just meant I get how someone could look at the general dynamic that way.

    For that matter Roach isn't Tyus either, though I can't wait to see who he becomes!

  11. #591
    Okay, I seem to have kicked a hornet's nest with Goldwire/Cook. I didn't mean that he would put up numbers like Quinn, but rather be the unsung veteran leader who has the toughness to be listened to and is called on in big game moments.

  12. #592
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Okay, I seem to have kicked a hornet's nest with Goldwire/Cook. I didn't mean that he would put up numbers like Quinn, but rather be the unsung veteran leader who has the toughness to be listened to and is called on in big game moments.
    Quinn's leadership in 2015 was legendary, though -- constantly praised* by coaches, teammates, and fans -- so it's arguably worse to predict that JGold will be as great a leader than to predict he'll be similar in quality as a basketball player.

    Also, while unintentional by you, any comparison with 2015 is loaded with implications since that was our last championship team (and our only Final Four team in the past 10 seasons). Unfortunately, next year's team doesn't measure up in terms of talent, and so to reference 2015 is just to make us sad :-). Just giving you some insight as to why I (and perhaps others) were immediately annoyed by that comparison.

    * i.e. it really wasn't unsung, except perhaps by national media

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Quinn's leadership in 2015 was legendary, though -- constantly praised* by coaches, teammates, and fans -- so it's arguably worse to predict that JGold will be as great a leader than to predict he'll be similar in quality as a basketball player.

    Also, while unintentional by you, any comparison with 2015 is loaded with implications since that was our last championship team (and our only Final Four team in the past 10 seasons). Unfortunately, next year's team doesn't measure up in terms of talent, and so to reference 2015 is just to make us sad :-). Just giving you some insight as to why I (and perhaps others) were immediately annoyed by that comparison.

    * i.e. it really wasn't unsung, except perhaps by national media
    Or, a reference to 2015 could give you hope rather than sadness.

    All perspective I suppose.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Or, a reference to 2015 could give you hope rather than sadness.

    All perspective I suppose.
    Yes, I choose to look at it that way!

  15. #595
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Or, a reference to 2015 could give you hope rather than sadness.

    All perspective I suppose.
    There are limits, though. One could say Tapés tape reminds them of '68 Alcindor. Should we be hopeful that next season's Duke will be the '68 Bruins?

    Sometimes comparisons are just bad :-). Take the loss and improve for next time?

  16. #596
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    i'm sure someone last year said "give me a team with jones, jack, javin, alex, goldwire and a bunch of freshmen, it'll be a tough team with a lot of weapons"

    While it was somewhat true, it also wasn't exactly a world-beating group.

    I have to see significant improvement from the 4 your listed in some aspect of the game before i'll think it can be the core of a team similar to the two title teams you listed. Two of those guys found themselves riding the pine more often than not in crunch time, and one of the guys who did see time was extremely limited offensively.

    I'm not saying these guys can't improve, but comparing them to the core of the listed title teams is a bit absurd given their overall body of work so far.
    I largely agree with this take.

    Let me add that there's some tension in holding these two positions at once:
    (A) I'm so happy that the 2020 recruiting class is full of multi-year players. (Whether correct or not, this is the most popular take here.)
    (B) We're going to be a championship contender in their freshman seasons.

    More likely, this is a lump-taking season while those players gain experience. Then, we can combine them with an amazing and extremely talented 2021 class that we're hoping to sign to form a championship contender.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    There are limits, though. One could say Tapés tape reminds them of '68 Alcindor. Should we be hopeful that next season's Duke will be the '68 Bruins?

    Sometimes comparisons are just bad :-). Take the loss and improve for next time?
    Wow. I would say that your comparison of a Cook/Goldwire comparison to a comparison of Tape/Kareen is a bad comparison!

    I appreciate your encouragement for me to take the loss, but I'd suggest your metaphor makes mine look amazing by comparison.

    Relatively speaking, of course.

  18. #598
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I largely agree with this take.

    Let me add that there's some tension in holding these two positions at once:
    (A) I'm so happy that the 2020 recruiting class is full of multi-year players. (Whether correct or not, this is the most popular take here.)
    (B) We're going to be a championship contender in their freshman seasons.

    More likely, this is a lump-taking season while those players gain experience. Then, we can combine them with an amazing and extremely talented 2021 class that we're hoping to sign to form a championship contender.
    I fully agree with your argument here in a vacuum, but I think it leaves out two crucial caveats that will actually apply to the 2020-2021 team:
    (A) The 2019 recruiting class appears to have also contributed at least one (Wendell), and likely at least two (I would put the odds at >50% that at least one of Hurt and Stanley return) multi-year players that have the potential to make major jumps between their freshman and sophomore seasons.
    (B) While 5 of the 6 guys in our 2020 class are likely multi-year players, Jalen Johnson is a lottery-caliber talent.

    Those two additional points (alongside the fact we have a senior JG to lead the squad) make me more optimistic about this fall's team. Now, a lot of that depends on some draft decisions that aren't official yet, but if those go in any way how we expect that serves to significantly bridge the gap between the two positions you articulated in your post.

    Again, not saying your argument was wrong (in fact, I think it's quite valid), just that the team we'll likely have this fall will likely be influenced by more than just the fact that we have multi-year guys in our 2020 class.
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  19. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Wow. I would say that your comparison of a Cook/Goldwire comparison to a comparison of Tape/Kareen is a bad comparison!

    I appreciate your encouragement for me to take the loss, but I'd suggest your metaphor makes mine look amazing by comparison.

    Relatively speaking, of course.
    Hyperbole: the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device.

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Hyperbole: the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device.
    Well now, that's just a straw man.

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