Is Jack OK?

[SouthernDukie]

LOL - completely disagree.

If your contention is that the pass was not hot and high and that the turnover was 100% on Moore, then yes we absolutely disagree. I have no problem amending my original comment asserting that it was a “terrible” pass by Jack. But if you’re going to argue that was all on Moore and zip on White, then... [Puts hands in the air and walks away]

[English]

LOL - completely disagree.

Regardless of placing what level of blame on whom for this turnover, I think (mostly) reasonable minds can (mostly) agree that in a game where everyone was struggling, it's odd that Jack would be pulled after a single play in which he may have been responsible for an errant pass, captain or no. And even barring that, this hasn't been an isolated instance where he's gotten next-to-no burn in a game. We probably don't need to continue litigating who bears the blame on this one.

Special thanks to grad_devil for the gif.

ETA: Oops, probably shouldn't have used the phrase "reasonable minds."

[CDu]

If your contention is that the pass was not hot and high and that the turnover was 100% on Moore, then yes we absolutely disagree. I have no problem amending my original comment asserting that it was a “terrible” pass by Jack. But if you’re going to argue that was all on Moore and zip on White, then... [Puts hands in the air and walks away]

It was no harder a pass than the pass a few seconds earlier from Tre Jones to Matt Hurt. It was chin high and dead center, and hit Moore right in the hands. Moore had his hands up prior to the pass and was looking at White when White threw it. It absolutely should have been caught. If you want to say that White could have thrown it a bit less hard? Sure, give him a small percentage of the blame. But it was easily a catchable pass, and one that Moore should have caught. He just didn't. Moore is much more to blame.

[jv001]

I'm gonna check back on the Moore vs. White play when I get back from church.

GoDuke!

[SouthernDukie]

I'm gonna check back on the Moore vs. White play when I get back from church.

GoDuke!

Say a few prayers for me while you’re there.

[szstark]

It has to be the thumb - nothing else makes sense to me. Hurt playing defense in the middle was a disaster and Jack is much stronger and more experienced. If nothing else, Jack would have provided 5 additional fouls that might have given Carey, Javin, and/or Robinson a few more minutes before fouling out.

[wsb3]

I'm gonna check back on the Moore vs. White play when I get back from church.

GoDuke!

Sure. The debate should be solved by next Sunday. 😂😂😂😂

[DukieInBrasil]

Thank you! I can now stand by my original comment. It was a poor decision and hot pass by Jack. Moore was not at fault nearly as much as Jack. Glad to know my eyes were and are functioning properly.

not sure how you come to that conclusion after watching the video, but to each his own.

[SouthernDukie]

not sure how you come to that conclusion after watching the video, but to each his own.

I could say the exact same thing about any conclusion that puts all the blame on Moore, but it is what it is.

[CameronBornAndBred]

And what do you think Coach K's answer would have been? He has a long history of brutal responses to reporters who ask questions he doesn't like. I suspect that question would have been added to the list.

Fine by me, at least it would have prompted an answer, whether he liked it or not. He could have said "I don't feel a need to talk about that", which is also fine, but at least it is a response. Reporters aren't there to ask questions that make people look good.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It was no harder a pass than the pass a few seconds earlier from Tre Jones to Matt Hurt. It was chin high and dead center, and hit Moore right in the hands. Moore had his hands up prior to the pass and was looking at White when White threw it. It absolutely should have been caught. If you want to say that White could have thrown it a bit less hard? Sure, give him a small percentage of the blame. But it was easily a catchable pass, and one that Moore should have caught. He just didn't. Moore is much more to blame.

With this, I agree...and if CDu and I agree, we can't possibly be wrong....

It has to be the thumb - nothing else makes sense to me. Hurt playing defense in the middle was a disaster and Jack is much stronger and more experienced. If nothing else, Jack would have provided 5 additional fouls that might have given Carey, Javin, and/or Robinson a few more minutes before fouling out.

Very good point...

[bluenorth]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate, perhaps Jack could come in for Goldwire, depending on the possible match ups. Without checking their stats, I'd guess that they are roughly equal as scoring threats. Certainly neither would be a first or second option. So if only one of the two should be on at any given moment, how about a lineup of Jones, Carey, Stanley, Moore and ... White. White would be able to make his usual contributions and maybe prevent Carey from committing a soft foul (or two) by helping in the paint. Or am I over-thinking this?

[kAzE]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate, perhaps Jack could come in for Goldwire, depending on the possible match ups. Without checking their stats, I'd guess that they are roughly equal as scoring threats. Certainly neither would be a first or second option. So if only one of the two should be on at any given moment, how about a lineup of Jones, Carey, Stanley, Moore and ... White. White would be able to make his usual contributions and maybe prevent Carey from committing a soft foul (or two) by helping in the paint. Or am I over-thinking this?

That's essentially what we were doing at the beginning of the season, although Hurt started games, White played the starter's minutes.

Jack and Jordan are two flavors of the same type of player. Both are defense-only options, but Jack has size and rebounding, and Jordan has okay but not great ball handling. This team REALLY lacks ball handling, so it kind of makes sense why you would favor Jordan, but it still makes no sense at all why you wouldn't use Jack when all your bigs are fouled out and Hurt is getting destroyed in the paint.

[Furniture]

Meanwhile Jack is on the bench giving solid animated support of his teammates. In other words he is not sulking. Admirable.

[bluenorth]

That's essentially what we were doing at the beginning of the season, although Hurt started games, White played the starter's minutes.

With pretty good success. It makes one long for the good old days.

[kshepinthehouse]

I totally get what you're saying. I will counter by asking if this year's offense is beginning to feel like last year's offense when the majority of scoring came from two players? I think K is desperately trying to get the shooters going so that Carey won't be doubled in the post, and Tre will have space to drive.

I could be totally wrong here but my guess is that a major contributor to Jack's lack of playing time is the emergence of Jordan Goldwire. When Goldwire is on the floor we don't have enough scorers for another defense-only type player.

I could be wrong. I'm certainly no expert.

Is Goldwire helping us THAT much? Enough to warrant 30 mins a game?

[DukeDevilDeb]

To quote Coach K after the 1990 Final Four annihilation by UNLV: "Here's to never forgetting."

Actually, it was earlier in his career after a terrible loss to Virginia... but you got the idea right!

[kshepinthehouse]

The decline in defensive efficiency for this team coincides fairly closely with White sitting at the end of the bench. This team played its best BB when White was playing 15-20 minutes a game and often in the lineup to close games. His help defense and shot contesting are noticeably absent and Hurt/Carey are matadors. Plus we need his toughness. I worry that K may have destroyed his confidence by not playing him recently.

So my question is, if Goldwire is playing more, and he’s a defensive guru, how come our defensive efficiency is declining. Goldwire is playing upwards of 30 mins per game.

And if he isn’t helping our defense, is he good enough on offense to be out there that many minutes?

[kshepinthehouse]

That's not the point I was trying to make. My initial understanding was that Jack made a bone headed play almost as soon as he came into the game and K benched him because a senior captain has to perform better.

Now that I know that play didn't go the way that I remember it I'm also a little surprised as to why Jack never got back into the game.

I remember me thinking it was Jack’s fault as well. I haven’t gone back to look but I thought he fired it at him too hard for the distance apart they were.

[wsb3]

Is Goldwire helping us THAT much? Enough to warrant 30 mins a game?

Not IMHO.