I get that Javin's performance last night was pretty egregious (5 fouls in 4 minutes) but since November 23, Javin has only had two games (including last night) with more than three fouls. He's mostly been staying on the floor just fine. And while he hasn't been contributing a whole lot on offense (with his 11.1% usage rate in conference play), I wouldn't call him a "liability," either. His oRating in conference play is 3rd on the team (116.8), and both his eFG% and true shooting pct in conference play are best on the team.
I have no objective data to back this up, but one of the issues I have had with Duke the last couple of years is the tendency to play one on one or, at best, two man ball. I feel like over the last half of the ACC season, we have been more focused on feeding BigVern and have had less emphasis on ball movement than we had earlier in the year. That could certainly explain a lack of intensity and focus from the other guys, particularly on the defensive end. Doth my eyes deceive me?
Hurt may have had 12 points, but he gave up about 45 points. It felt like every point in overtime was scored on him. You can watch the Wake players trying to figure out how to isolate Hurt. It got so bad that Wendell Moore was trying to switch the pick and roll so he could defend it instead of Hurt. Then you could see Wake send a Moore’s man in an effort to continue to try to isolate Hurt in their guard. It was a cat and mouse game to get Hurt one on one. I don’t care how many points he scored, he gave up a ton more.
Because he only shoots layups and dunks (with the exception of his recent frisky tendency to shoot a 3). That tends to inflate those particular stats.
He can’t dribble, can’t pass, can’t score in the post, and can’t shoot. I think “liability” is a pretty reasonable assessment. It is a liability that the team MAY be able to overcome if his defense is good, but he is still a liability on offense that the team has to gameplan around.
I see Vernon as one of the top offensive centers in the NCAA. Teams generally double team him in the post. Hiis defense has nott caught up as yet but he has the tools to be good in that regard, although its asking a lot when quick athletic guards get past their Duke defenders and get on him one on one. No big man center can survive in a high pace game for 40 minutes, so our weakness at the center position comes in the 10 to 15 minutes we have to go backup.
Tre is an excellent ball handler but is not a blowby guard, nor is he an uber athlete who can elevate over others. He uses guile to get into his shooting position and has improved as a scorer this year. His defense is excellent, but he has been asked to carry the load for 40 mpg on a two way basis, which is a heavy load for him.
Beyond those two we have Wendell, a strong athlete of good but not great size foor a wing. He is an excellent defender but his prmary weakness comes on the offensive side. He is talked of as having a good handle but he tends to put his head down and bullrush to the basket and he makes enough errors with the ball to be called turnover proone.
Cassius is an uber athlete who can score off of drives, alleyoops and his shooting can be good but is inconsistent. Some has said he is inconsistent.
Jordan probably has the second best handle on the team and is a good athlete. He doesn't seem to have the game sense of Tre and his shootiing is spotty. Has trouble finishing a drive.
Beyond them is Matthew, who has a lot of scoring tools but has been abused on defense. While about 6'9", he is not yet suited to play inside. Not the quick tough athletic type at this point in hiis career.
Alex is a very good athlete and is quick and of good size and length. At times he canhelp the team and seems like it comes more often of late.
Javin is primarily a substitute at center. He has athleticism and quickness but he seems to struggle against other capable bigs and isn't much of an offensive threat.
We have Jack and Joey who both seem not to get many minutes at this point.
So, we are a good team but not a great team this year. Would like to see more ball movement on offense and more participation from guys not named Tre or Vernon. Maybe some zone on defense to keep Vernon in the game longer. Still, I love to watch them play.
Old school centers like Vernon Carey just aren’t valued very highly by the NBA anymore. Okafor is a prime example. And look at the recent trade involving Andre Drummond, former center for Detroit, who was basically given away for a box of doughnuts. Detroit was like “Take him, PLEASE.” Same thing with the recent trade of Clint Capella.
The days of the dominant center who plays strictly around the basket are pretty much over. Sad, but true.
Last edited by -jk; 02-27-2020 at 10:17 AM. Reason: fix quote
Thanks for gathering this interesting information. I was curious about Lee Melchionni and how he progressed. I always rooted for Lee because his dad, Gary was one of my favorite Duke players. So, I looked him up and it seems he did progress to the point that he did make some contributions. In his junior year(his best) Lee played 21.7 mpg. and was .396% on threes while averaging 7.7 pts per game. But in his Sr year those number dropped down to 19.9 mpg. and he hit .320% on threes. In his junior year his numbers were better in ACC play. He hit 44% of his threes and was ranked 4th in the league. His average on made threes was 2.19 per game. He had 11 double digit scoring games and was leading scorer in 2 games for the Devils. Keeping in mind JJ and Shelden were on that team. So, I guess all things considered, Lee Melchoinni did improve from his freshmen year to his junior year. Even though he dropped off somewhat his senior year.
GoDuke
Yeah, I think Carey's shooting will help him. But the concern is his defense; specifically his defense away from the basket. It's getting harder for guys his size to stay on the floor unless they can handle switches on ball screens on the perimeter. The bigs who get floor time either can do that or are elite shotblockers (i.e., usually long and/or springy) or both. Otherwise, they get roasted by switches onto guards.
I think Carey's offensive game translates pretty well to the modern NBA. The questions for him are mostly on the other end.
Lee Melchionni's junior year--2005-was the year Shavlik Randolph suffered a bout with mono, which meant Melchionni played a lot as an under-sized 4. Josh McRoberts came in the next year, moving Melchionni back to his natural wing position, where he had more competition for PT.
Ironically, he was marginally better at his non-natural position than at his natural position.
I agree. His offensive game will be fine in the NBA. He's shown he's a more than capable 3-point shooter. The question is does he have the quickness needed for bigs in the NBA today? Just ask yourself if Carey has the lateral quickness to guard the modern 4/5 in the NBA. Being large/tall doesn't mean what it used to mean for the NBA.
That makes sense that Lee would lose time to McRoberts at the PF position in his senior year. Lee actually outperformed Randolph in his junior year. Looking back on the career of Randolph, he was pretty much a disappointment but I guess part of that was the injuries he suffered. Mono and bone spurs hindered him and he never reached the level of play that most thought he would attain. If I remember correctly he surprised many people when he declared for the NBA after his sophomore year. He wasn't drafted by any NBA team but did sign with the Sixers I believe.
GoDuke!
Well, I don’t consider my comment of him being an “old school center” to be anything other than what we have literally witnessed during his time at Duke. I consider his play in college to be much more determinative of how the NBA views his game than anything he did in high school. And his play at Duke has mostly been that of a traditional center.