Survivor: Winners at War

[JosephReidBooks]

As I've watched all the seasons of Survivor, I've followed along here as well, but I've never posted before. This season has me reenergized about the show--I really wish they were doing extended episodes, as I could watch these players for hours at a time.

It's likely just my personal bias showing, but I was happy to see Adam blow it at Tribal and get sent off. I thought his gameplay was less impressive during his season, and this season among the all-stars he's been a paranoid mess. I actually started to worry someone might carry him along to the final tribal because he seemed so unliked/distrusted by the others, but I agree with you Jason, now that he's at Exile I don't see much of a path back. (And I'm not particularly sad about that.)

Does anyone think it's interested how Kim is flying below the radar? When everyone was like, "all the old-school players are gone," Kim was standing right there. She's had such a small edit to date, I wonder if she goes far.

[mr. synellinden]

As I've watched all the seasons of Survivor, I've followed along here as well, but I've never posted before. This season has me reenergized about the show--I really wish they were doing extended episodes, as I could watch these players for hours at a time.

It's likely just my personal bias showing, but I was happy to see Adam blow it at Tribal and get sent off. I thought his gameplay was less impressive during his season, and this season among the all-stars he's been a paranoid mess. I actually started to worry someone might carry him along to the final tribal because he seemed so unliked/distrusted by the others, but I agree with you Jason, now that he's at Exile I don't see much of a path back. (And I'm not particularly sad about that.)

Does anyone think it's interested how Kim is flying below the radar? When everyone was like, "all the old-school players are gone," Kim was standing right there. She's had such a small edit to date, I wonder if she goes far.

Well, three years ago Dalton Ross picked her as the best winner ever. It's a great question - if I had to pick, I think I'd go with Yul, Tony, and Tom - in that order. Maybe Kim ahead of Tom. Despite Dalton's rules, part of my choice is based on the fact that they all won in their first try. I think the best player of all may have been Terry - and he got very screwed by an unfair final immunity challenge.

This season has been amazing. They needed it because I didn't watch the last season and after talking to friends didn't feel the need to go back and do so. The fire tokens are a great addition even though I was skeptical at the start. The post immunity challenge scramble this week was awesome. It's hard to tell who is control of the game and it feels like anyone could win at this point - and maybe even be worthy. It feels like Denise might be able to fly under the radar enough and "middle" her way to the end even though she had the epic Sandra ouster. If only she had kept the second idol, but it was the right move at the time. How many people go home with idols in their bag? I am surprised Tyson has lasted this long after re-entering the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go this week - and maybe buy Nick one more tribal council.

[JosephReidBooks]

I hadn't seen that one, so appreciated reading his thinking. 100% agree with you on Terry, one of my favorites. Although if we're talking about who got screwed, I also have to throw it all the way back to Colby, who I thought really got jobbed on the first "social game" vs. "dominated the game" vote against Tina.

So, why isn't CBS releasing 2- or 3-hour episodes? Even if it was just to pump up their subscription service, it would seem to be worth it. I remember back when they did those broadcasts from the Ponderosa, etc--these would be a million times more interesting.

[acdevil]

The move I’m waiting to be made:

Everyone on the edge of extinction should make a pact that whoever gets back gets all of their votes (since they’ve said only one more is getting back and everyone else there is on the jury if they don’t quit). If they could make it from the point of reinsertion to the final, they’re golden. There is no downside to anyone on the Edge making that deal.

[JosephReidBooks]

Everyone on the edge of extinction should make a pact that whoever gets back gets all of their votes (since they’ve said only one more is getting back and everyone else there is on the jury if they don’t quit). If they could make it from the point of reinsertion to the final, they’re golden. There is no downside to anyone on the Edge making that deal.

Along those same lines, why not offer to split the 2nd million among those on the Edge to ensure their vote?

[mr. synellinden]

Along those same lines, why not offer to split the 2nd million among those on the Edge to ensure their vote?

I’m pretty sure this is against Survivor rules but if they kept it quiet I don’t know how they’d enforce it.

[JosephReidBooks]

Three words: Three. Hour. Finale.

Woohoo!

Also sounds like votes will be read & reunion show will be conducted like all our gatherings now, via videoconference: https://ew.com/tv/survivor-winners-a...eunion-finale/

I'm curious to see which company bids the highest for the rights to carry it...

[DU82]

Three words: Three. Hour. Finale.

Woohoo!

Also sounds like votes will be read & reunion show will be conducted like all our gatherings now, via videoconference: https://ew.com/tv/survivor-winners-a...eunion-finale/

I'm curious to see which company bids the highest for the rights to carry it...

It’s always a three hour finale. Two hour show, one hour reunion (on which the winner is announced.)

Only difference is that the players will not meet in LA, and Jeff won’t be able to ask a kid in the audience for his/her opinion. And Sia can’t come in from the wings to interrupt.

[JosephReidBooks]

It’s always a three hour finale. Two hour show, one hour reunion (on which the winner is announced.)

You're 100% right, of course, about how they've done it in the past, and now that you say that, I feel stupid for getting excited. But the way they were announcing it, along with the impracticalities of having the reunion show, made me think we'd be getting more show and less reunion this year. You're probably right that they're following the same old formula, but the way they were selling it made me think/hope it was different.

[DU82]

You're 100% right, of course, about how they've done it in the past, and now that you say that, I feel stupid for getting excited. But the way they were announcing it, along with the impracticalities of having the reunion show, made me think we'd be getting more show and less reunion this year. You're probably right that they're following the same old formula, but the way they were selling it made me think/hope it was different.

The penultimate show will be two hours, though. Don't know if this is just what would have been two shows back-to-back (most likely) or an extended show. Perhaps this is when the second EoE player returns and they wanted to give more time to that. I could see elimination, add player, and elimination.

[mkirsh]

Anyone else not understand the vote tonight? The majority had a five to four advantage, and then stole a vote to make it 6 to 3, presumably to split the vote to protect against the idol. But then they split their votes 4-2? If they had guessed wrong on the idol Sophie would have been voted out. Why not either take the same chance but save the advantage, or split the votes 3-3 and then decide on the revote? Am I missing something?

Also as a side note I’m bummed they aren’t showing individual votes with the credits this season.

[acdevil]

I had the same thought. The only thing I could think of is that they were all voting Tyson and then Sarah switched it up when she stole a vote and cast her two votes for Denise. Which doesn’t make sense strategically, but Sarah isn’t the best player and I could see her making that mistake in the heat of the moment.

Also, while I thought it was nice that everyone got to see their family and loved ones, wasn’t a big fan of it basically being half the episode. Cool moment at the very end between the jury and Probation though.

[DU82]

Anyone else not understand the vote tonight? The majority had a five to four advantage, and then stole a vote to make it 6 to 3, presumably to split the vote to protect against the idol. But then they split their votes 4-2? If they had guessed wrong on the idol Sophie would have been voted out. Why not either take the same chance but save the advantage, or split the votes 3-3 and then decide on the revote? Am I missing something?

Also as a side note I’m bummed they aren’t showing individual votes with the credits this season.

First, the vote was 5-2-2. It appears that Michelle voted for Tyson. (Kim and Tyson wouldn’t have switched their votes, and Denise couldn’t vote.)

One thought is that, similar to another returnee season, I believe Game Changers, a tie vote immediately goes to rocks rather than a revoke. So there was an incentive for Michelle to avoid that and a 20% chance of leaving the main game. (Tony would keep his immunity, and the three who tied in the vote would be safe per previous rock drawings.). So, even without Michelle, they split the vote 4-2. Of course, had Kim guessed right, they would have been going to rocks with the remaining votes being 2-2 for Denise and Sophie.

[JasonEvans]

First, the vote was 5-2-2. It appears that Michelle voted for Tyson. (Kim and Tyson wouldn’t have switched their votes, and Denise couldn’t vote.)

One thought is that, similar to another returnee season, I believe Game Changers, a tie vote immediately goes to rocks rather than a revoke. So there was an incentive for Michelle to avoid that and a 20% chance of leaving the main game. (Tony would keep his immunity, and the three who tied in the vote would be safe per previous rock drawings.). So, even without Michelle, they split the vote 4-2. Of course, had Kim guessed right, they would have been going to rocks with the remaining votes being 2-2 for Denise and Sophie.

Yeah, once the vote steal happened, I think Michelle or someone in the bottom 4 saw the writing on the walls and went ahead and voted with the majority because their cause was futile at that point. As for why the majority did not split 3-3, we saw them scrambling and plotting in real time at tribal council and I suspect someone just got confused about who they were supposed to vote for. It happens.

Immediate rocks on a tie vote? That seems kinda crazy to me. Are you sure that is how it is?

I agree that the family visits took up too much time this episode. The plotting and stuff around camp has been so fabulous lately and we got close to zero of that this ep. I missed it.

I think Jeremy is toast with the jury for leaving Tribal. Everyone saw him as abandoning his allies. Yeah, he survived but I think his odds of winning are pretty darn small at this point.

-Jason "I'm liking Ben's position at this point... he is the only person in the game who has voted for the person to go home every time he has voted... in other words, he is always in the power when the time comes to vote" Evans

[DU82]

Yeah, once the vote steal happened, I think Michelle or someone in the bottom 4 saw the writing on the walls and went ahead and voted with the majority because their cause was futile at that point. As for why the majority did not split 3-3, we saw them scrambling and plotting in real time at tribal council and I suspect someone just got confused about who they were supposed to vote for. It happens.

Immediate rocks on a tie vote? That seems kinda crazy to me. Are you sure that is how it is?

I agree that the family visits took up too much time this episode. The plotting and stuff around camp has been so fabulous lately and we got close to zero of that this ep. I missed it.

I think Jeremy is toast with the jury for leaving Tribal. Everyone saw him as abandoning his allies. Yeah, he survived but I think his odds of winning are pretty darn small at this point.

-Jason "I'm liking Ben's position at this point... he is the only person in the game who has voted for the person to go home every time he has voted... in other words, he is always in the power when the time comes to vote" Evans

I am not sure about the rocks, just speculation based on the previous big all-returnee season, and considering Sophie and others are smart enough to know how to work a 6-3 advantage with a tie in normal seasons. I think Michelle changed her vote (she’s confirmed on social media that she did vote for Tyson) to avoid rocks, too.

I don’t think Ben has much of a chance with the jury. My money is on whoever comes back from EoE, Sophie and Tony. Personally, I think Sophie’s playing the best game from the edits we’re allowed to see.

(Sidebar on the family visit: anybody else notice that when Jeff said there was no challenge and everybody was going back to camp, Sophie and her fiancé started running towards the camp.. maybe to scout out a “private area” for their visit?)

[Hingeknocker]

Whew - just got caught up on this thread after venturing over to the OT board for the first time in a long time! Great to see all of the discussion regarding this season. It's been a hard one to wrap my head around, because all of the players are (rightfully) playing cagey af among all former winners. It's hard for me to get a feel for who is playing a good enough game to elevate themselves above the fray. One thing that surprised me last night was how solid the two blocs of 5 appeared to be. I would have thought there'd be more fluidity at this stage of the game, but from the preview of next week, it appears everything is back in flux. Overall, I think the only person of the remaining 9 who isn't playing a winnable game is Michele at this point. I would have included Ben two weeks ago, but after emerging on top in his feud with Adam, he seems to be back on more solid footing. Otherwise, I think the other 7 players are hard to separate.

Some other comments from throughout the thread...I agree that Sandra's decision to quit the game makes it very hard for her to be the "Queen" anymore. Before that, I had her as my personal GOAT. She helped pioneer the idea that physical strength isn't the only path to victory, went freakin' back-to-back as winner, and is as ruthless as anyone. The game rewards ruthlessness, and she embodies it. Her play since her 2nd victory hasn't been perfect, but then no one's is...up until her quitting EoE this year. Tough look for me and now I'm in search of a new GOAT!

I, for one, loved the extended family time in last night's episode, and was incredibly heartened that they all got to win family time without the challenge. I even said to my wife how brutal it would be for whoever lost that challenge, so I was happy it didn't even come to that.

Finally, I have some general EoE thoughts that I have to get off my chest. Namely, I hate it. For one, the first iteration of it is my least favorite season of Survivor ever (aside from last season which was effectively ruined by production's mis-handling of Dan). Chris - voted out on Day 8 - had no business winning that season. His performance against Devens in that fire-making challenge is an iconic Survivor moment, sure, but he still didn't deserve a single vote to win. For two, they need to bring the EoE winner back into the game much earlier than they did in Chris's season, and as appears they are doing this year. It would have been much, much better if EoE were shut down after Tyson won his way back, and then the tribe merges and everything moves on as normal from there. Because my third issue is how much of a built-in advantage the EoE winner has with the jury! As already mentioned, there's the possibility of collusion among those players, which I think is very unlikely to happen. But if the EoE winner advances to Final Tribal, they will have the most built-in jury advantage that you could ever possibly have: all that time spent on Extinction with the jury! This is a completely stress-free (for gameplay, anyway) environment where they can talk freely about the game, spill dirt on other players, with no fear of repercussions down the road, because only 1 of them can make it back anyway. There's no downside, and extreme upside when it comes time to vote at Final Tribal.

Ok, rant over, sorry for the lengthy post but I had to get all my thoughts out from missing all this time up until now. Can't wait til next week!

[acdevil]

To be clear - I was totally cool with them all getting their loved ones. I just hated how it took half the episode.

I like EoE and the fire tokens for this go around since they really needed to have things be different and new for a season of all winners. I’m not sure if I’d want fire tokens to be a thing going forward though.

I think whoever said it was right about Jeremy. Given the dynamics last night, the jury probably won’t look too kindly on him bailing. If he could have waited for Sarah to play her advantage then at least he could have spun it as he though he was going home 6-4, but she forced him to go first (good move by her).

[JosephReidBooks]

I like EoE and the fire tokens for this go around since they really needed to have things be different and new for a season of all winners. I’m not sure if I’d want fire tokens to be a thing going forward though.

Totally agree--the added complexity makes sense with all the former winners, but with a new, rookie cast it might make a muddle of things. Same with all the unique advantages, like Jeremy's "leave tribal council." They shake up the gameplay, which is already super-high, but if you had a bunch of relative noobs trying to figure stuff out for the first time, it could really overcomplicate it.

I think whoever said it was right about Jeremy. Given the dynamics last night, the jury probably won’t look too kindly on him bailing. If he could have waited for Sarah to play her advantage then at least he could have spun it as he though he was going home 6-4, but she forced him to go first (good move by her).

My 15yo and I watch the show together, and the second Jeremy played that advantage, we turned to each other and said, "he just lost." The jury seemed like it hated him bailing, and for the folks I his alliance that he left at tribal, I can't imagine why they'd trust him going forward. Especially since it didn't appear he'd warned them about the possibility, I can see them being furious not only for him bailing, but for not giving them a heads-up that he *might* bail. That said, the video from next week made it look like everyone was OK with him and now Tony is the one scrambling, but who knows.

I have to say, I've been astounded at the way everyone huddles and whispers during Tribal--what a crazy new phenomenon!

Also, to pick up an idea from earlier in the thread, Kim really impressed me at sussing out that she should play her idol for Denise rather than herself. When she first stood up, I thought she'd just be selfish with it, and who could blame her given all the insanity, but she's really playing a high-level game.

Absolutely can't wait until next week. This season is back to being the highlight of my week, like it was back during the earliest seasons.

[JasonEvans]

Win or lose, Tony is really playing well. His move tonight to use just 4 votes against an alliance of 5 people was brilliant. I worry that he may he playing both sides too much and the preview makes it clear that Sarah is quite angry at him now, but I’m still enjoying his game play.

Jason “more later... the other person who is playing great is Kim” Evans

[Hingeknocker]

Wow - brilliant night from Tony last night. From his first season, it always baffled me that his other tribemates basically allowed Tony to will himself to the top of that game. You gotta vote that guy out of the game! Or go out and find idols your dang self! Sure, being a cop has its built in advantages, and his sheer work ethic in working and thinking harder than anyone else absolutely trounced everyone else...but anyone, not just a cop, is allowed to play the game that way. Now that he's doing the same exact thing - taking advantage of a mentally draining tribal to put some serious moves in play - among a tribe of all former winners? Clearly he has another step on his ladder, to borrow a Bilas-ism.

I agree with Jason that Kim is also playing a great game. Her ability to read people and figure out what's really going on behind the scenes is like a poker player...and what was that about a "poker" alliance from earlier in the game? . I'm glad she's still around. I have been wondering though - did she properly leverage the correct initial read that Tony was deceiving Jeremy? Why wouldn't she try to take that information and spin her 4 person alliance (including Jeremy) into voting out Tony, or once Tony had immunity, one of Tony's allies? By virtue of Kim/Denise joining the anti-Jeremy brigade, that laid the groundwork for Tony to be able to flip the entire game on its head.

I feel badly for Sophie. I think she was also playing a great game, although she probably got a little too comfortable. Compared to Kim's poker style, Sophie is more of a chess player, accurately figuring out the strategies and the moves before they happen. It's a shame she couldn't see last night coming, but that's a real Survivor Blindside that we saw, and it was great.

My only criticism of Tony's move last night is where the game stands now. He has a new alliance of 4 people who don't fully seem to trust each other, opposing 4 other people who just got well and truly blindsided. This brings us back to...two weeks ago, where we had 10 people split 5 and 5. That situation only resolved itself because Sarah had the steal-a-vote and Jeremy was able to remove himself from tribal. Did Tony make himself an even bigger immediate target, coming off 2 immunity wins? Of course, he now has an idol in his pocket...