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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixthman View Post
    I could not agree more with this. When the game is not on, Cameron has become boring, suffering significantly from being preprogrammed.
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    about 8 years ago, they started made concerted efforts to make games at NBA more cameron like (the addition of the dancing devils in the portals, scheduled canned music, professional half time acts). They got their wish with a more benign game atmostphere.

    Classic marketing mistake...attempting to focus on what OTHER people do instead of doubling down on what makes your own product unique.
    I think you've got it half right Sixthman; you've just lumped too much into "preprogrammed." The band played particular songs for many, many years, including certain songs at certain times. That's not a problem.

    But as uh_no notes, there was a shift to a more NBA-like arrangement a little while back (I take it he transposed NBA and Cameron in his comment).

    The occasional professional half-time act had been around for a little while before; what I really blame it on is the new scoreboard that was installed in 2009 or 2010.

    With the new scoreboard came the music over Cameron's sound system, as well as those stupid "make some noise" type messages on the screen, and ads, dance cam, etc. All of that is a distraction for the fans and especially the students from focusing on the players, both during the game and during breaks in play. They end up gaping at a screen instead. To me, that was when a really visible change began in the student section (though there were other factors driving it as well). It seems to me that before the new scoreboard, people were always making a ton of noise during timeouts, calling out opposing players, etc. That declined rapidly in the first few years of the new board.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I routinely sit in front of elderly folks, fans whoíve been there for decades - many pre-K. They have great difficulty standing; one leaves his walker outside the portal. For several years, my mom was one of the ones who couldnít stand.
    I find the upper crowd at Cameron to be oddly skewed toward the older crowd. At times, I've felt like I've been at a symphony concert (where the audience is about 90% septuagenarian or older). Elderly fans just don't scream and shout like younger ones do, so I think that has more to do with the general lack of noise level than anything about the Crazies. When you have to be a major donor to even buy season tickets, there's not going to be a lot of turnover. Your crowd will just inevitably age.

    It's a side-effect of maximizing revenue, and I can't think of a solution for it.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    I've always wanted to go back to campus every fall to do a 1 night program in Cameron to teach all the chants to incoming freshmen (and any others who wanted to show up) and really pass along the power they have to make our team that much greater and how much fun it can be. Also, it's to let them know that us older graduates are 100% behind them. We want the Crazies to succeed every game. We want everyone who watches a game to be like, "Wow, the Crazies were ON. IT. tonight. They made a difference." Those who know me know I coordinate the exact same thing for the U.S. national soccer teams, and we make a difference in the stands. But, the Cameron Crazies can affect a scoreline line no other section. They can affect Vegas lines. Times and the makeup of the Crazies change from year to year, but that foundation can remain the same if we all work together and not seek to tear that foundation down.
    As you know, and as we've discussed, I and another old fart proposed this exact same idea to some folks in the office toward the end of our Grad Skool tenures. There was interest, but not critical activation energy. Not sure what that would take, but I'd support your efforts.
    WWJDD?

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by blpog View Post
    i think you've got it half right sixthman; you've just lumped too much into "preprogrammed." the band played particular songs for many, many years, including certain songs at certain times. That's not a problem.

    But as uh_no notes, there was a shift to a more nba-like arrangement a little while back (i take it he transposed nba and cameron in his comment).

    The occasional professional half-time act had been around for a little while before; what i really blame it on is the new scoreboard that was installed in 2009 or 2010.

    With the new scoreboard came the music over cameron's sound system, as well as those stupid "make some noise" type messages on the screen, and ads, dance cam, etc. All of that is a distraction for the fans and especially the students from focusing on the players, both during the game and during breaks in play. They end up gaping at a screen instead. To me, that was when a really visible change began in the student section (though there were other factors driving it as well). It seems to me that before the new scoreboard, people were always making a ton of noise during timeouts, calling out opposing players, etc. That declined rapidly in the first few years of the new board.
    This. 100%.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    It's a side-effect of maximizing revenue, and I can't think of a solution for it.
    It's a side effect of having a very financially successful alumni base who are also want to see the team succeed, and a small stadium.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    Do you have a lawn you'd like for us to get off?

    Kidding. I'm sure this is true for some folks, but I bet Jack and Javin aren't exactly all that accessible either. Outside of classes, why would they spend any time outside of the basketball facilities? Those are some of the nicest places on campus where all their amenities and benefits are. Plus, it's even more a full time job now that it was even 10 years ago. I don't think if you had a team full of 4 year guys that you would see them around that much.

    In fact, I would guess the freshmen are the most accessible since they have to live in a dorm, eat the marketplace, take the bus, etc. Once they move off campus or move into the new dorms on west right next to Cameron, forget it.
    You sir, sound like you never had the opportunity to watch Shane Battier in a snowball fight on the main quad his senior year! Most of the athletes, even the non-basketball athletes, aren't quite as integrated into the general student body...they've got a second job, so to speak. But, yes, there have plenty of 3/4-year star men's basketball players over the years that made friends, went to parties and classes, and were generally part of the Duke student experience. And, yes, I do think the relationship between the crazies and the basketball team is helped by that sort of integration versus the one-and-done experience. Even Coach K is aware of the issue and encourages those guys to "unpack their bags" for the year that they're there. Is what it is.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    You sir, sound like you never had the opportunity to watch Shane Battier in a snowball fight on the main quad his senior year! Most of the athletes, even the non-basketball athletes, aren't quite as integrated into the general student body...they've got a second job, so to speak. But, yes, there have plenty of 3/4-year star men's basketball players over the years that made friends, went to parties and classes, and were generally part of the Duke student experience. And, yes, I do think the relationship between the crazies and the basketball team is helped by that sort of integration versus the one-and-done experience. Even Coach K is aware of the issue and encourages those guys to "unpack their bags" for the year that they're there. Is what it is.
    I remember standing in the bathroom line at the Hideaway next to Battier either my freshman or sophomore year

    Edit: also remember seeing JJ at Cosmic at like 2 in a the morning a few times on weekends

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by npdevil27 View Post
    I remember standing in the bathroom line at the Hideaway next to Battier either my freshman or sophomore year

    Edit: also remember seeing JJ at Cosmic at like 2 in a the morning a few times on weekends
    The Hideaway - Where do you think Battier ignited his life long love affair with Bud Light?!?!

    http://ballislife.com/bud-light-delivers-26400-cans-of-beer-to-shane-battiers-house/

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    people using canes as poking devices is actually a pretty big issue in cameron. I totally get that people don't want their views blocked, and it's important to be cognizant of people behind you, but cameron also isn't the most, shall we say, ergonomically designed...

    I used a cane for a couple of years before finally breaking down and undergoing bi-lateral knee replacement. I would make the climb up with the cane and then try to enjoy the game. Going down was harder but I would wait for others to clear out. It just wasn't worth impeding people who were able to move smoothly. I was young for the surgery but I didn't begrudge the healthy knees all around me.

    Now I can jump up again and I'm not going to stop. A few seconds of celebration is what we're all there for and the replay camera works well, too.

    PS, I could do with one playing of "Everytime We Touch", ONE. The band's version, not the canned one before the intros. Also, I adore Ludacris, love love love him, but how about they shorten "All I Do Is Win" a bit, it goes on too long and then just dies.

    Hey can we jazz up and speed up some "Roundball Rock?"
    Last edited by weezie; 02-12-2020 at 04:58 PM.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by BLPOG View Post
    It seems to me that before the new scoreboard, people were always making a ton of noise during timeouts, calling out opposing players, etc. That declined rapidly in the first few years of the new board.
    I will never, ever forget how the BOGgers used to pull their shirts over their heads, lean in from behind the opposing bench, and just scream like lunatics thru the entirety of every time out. Itís the reason so many teams had to start bringing folding chairs to conduct their timeouts on the court. But, alas, the powers that be stopped allowing students to sit behind the opposing bench.
    ďCoach said no 3s.Ē - Zion on The Block

  11. #91
    The Crazies arenít crazy anymore. There. I said it. Iíve see lots of advertisements this year where student section tickets are for sale. Can you imagine trying to find a student section ticket for sale 10 years ago. Even five years ago? I really think itís the generation.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by WVDUKEFAN View Post
    The Crazies arenít crazy anymore. There. I said it. Iíve see lots of advertisements this year where student section tickets are for sale. Can you imagine trying to find a student section ticket for sale 10 years ago. Even five years ago? I really think itís the generation.
    they've been selling them for longer than 5 years. And there were plenty of empty seats when I was a student 10 years ago. LM used to beg us to call our friends and have them show up.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill
    [QUOTE=BLPOG;1225947]I think you've got it half right Sixthman; you've just lumped too much into "preprogrammed." The band played particular songs for many, many years, including certain songs at certain times. That's not a problem.

    My recollection is that there were kind of two recent band eras. One when the band played more and it was certain songs at certain times, and one where the band (director) exercised more discretion over what was played -- playing to the moment. Back when "Hey Baby." was a band staple, there was a time when that worked -- when the arena needed to lighten up and have some fun - and time when it wasn't appropriate. It felt like someone was exercising a little discretion. And then, it didn't. And, now, every timeout is something boring which is on a predictable schedule and functions to shut down cheering, spontaneity, and, I suppose, the poor exercise of discretion which might otherwise be granted to adult human beings.
    GTHC

  14. #94
    [QUOTE=Sixthman;1226085]
    Quote Originally Posted by BLPOG View Post
    I think you've got it half right Sixthman; you've just lumped too much into "preprogrammed." The band played particular songs for many, many years, including certain songs at certain times. That's not a problem.

    My recollection is that there were kind of two recent band eras. One when the band played more and it was certain songs at certain times, and one where the band (director) exercised more discretion over what was played -- playing to the moment. Back when "Hey Baby." was a band staple, there was a time when that worked -- when the arena needed to lighten up and have some fun - and time when it wasn't appropriate. It felt like someone was exercising a little discretion. And then, it didn't. And, now, every timeout is something boring which is on a predictable schedule and functions to shut down cheering, spontaneity, and, I suppose, the poor exercise of discretion which might otherwise be granted to adult human beings.
    It's sadly human nature....something cool sort of develops organically....and after a while, it becomes institutionalized, programmed, formulaic....and not the same. Happens in sports, politics, media, movies, everywhere.
    Don't waste your time on House of Cards S6!
    -We found out Frank was critical to making anyone else in the show interesting...not a surprise...

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    they've been selling them for longer than 5 years. And there were plenty of empty seats when I was a student 10 years ago. LM used to beg us to call our friends and have them show up.
    Indeed! Eddie Cameron was selling unused student seats when I was a undergraduate back in the sixties. His goal was to fill the seats. The students generally filled up all four sides downstairs with the exception of the corners. The same goal of filling the seats is present today.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    [QUOTE=HereBeforeCoachK;1226090]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixthman View Post

    It's sadly human nature...something cool sort of develops organically...and after a while, it becomes institutionalized, programmed, formulaic...and not the same. Happens in sports, politics, media, movies, everywhere.
    Absolutely true. It was inevitable that it was going to happen to the students and to Cameron Indoor. I knew it was over the moment they started advertising. Then came the new scoreboard and the piped-in obnoxious music. The atmosphere changed, and not for the better. It became like a pro sports setting.

    When I first started attending games in the fall of 2000 Cameron Indoor was like a shrine to the sport of basketball. It really was. Itís still good, mind you, and I LOVE going to Duke games, but itís not as good as it was. Thatís just a fact.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Absolutely true. It was inevitable that it was going to happen to the students and to Cameron Indoor. I knew it was over the moment they started advertising. Then came the new scoreboard and the piped-in obnoxious music. The atmosphere changed, and not for the better. It became like a pro sports setting.

    When I first started attending games in the fall of 2000 Cameron Indoor was like a shrine to the sport of basketball. It really was. It’s still good, mind you, and I LOVE going to Duke games, but it’s not as good as it was. That’s just a fact.
    What did you have, one year without air conditioning?

    If you really want to get rid of the crusties and fill it with crazies, the air conditioning has got to go.

    Get a another home court advantage back, too. But Coach would never go for it.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by BLPOG View Post
    What did you have, one year without air conditioning? If you really want to get rid of the crusties and fill it with crazies, the air conditioning has got to go. Get a another home court advantage back, too. But Coach would never go for it.
    Most of Duke's ticket revenue comes from those 5,600 upstairs seats. It's the opposite at every state school where football sales predominate. When you can donate $500 and get season tickets, Duke will be in trouble, and those days are coming sooner than any of us want. 12,000 local alumni does not equate to 5,600 seats sold for a bubble team.

    At least I have tickets @NCSU next Wednesday.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    Most of Duke's ticket revenue comes from those 5,600 upstairs seats. It's the opposite at every state school where football sales predominate. When you can donate $500 and get season tickets, Duke will be in trouble, and those days are coming sooner than any of us want. 12,000 local alumni does not equate to 5,600 seats sold for a bubble team.

    At least I have tickets @NCSU next Wednesday.
    ďBubble teamĒ? I reject that notion. Duke will hire a great coach once Coach K leaves. Whoever it is will continue this four-decade roll. Youíll see.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    ďBubble teamĒ? I reject that notion. Duke will hire a great coach once Coach K leaves. Whoever it is will continue this four-decade roll. Youíll see.
    Think Zager and Evans.

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