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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixthman View Post
    I could not agree more with this. When the game is not on, Cameron has become boring, suffering significantly from being preprogrammed.
    about 8 years ago, they started made concerted efforts to make games at NBA more cameron like (the addition of the dancing devils in the portals, scheduled canned music, professional half time acts). They got their wish with a more benign game atmostphere.

    Classic marketing mistake...attempting to focus on what OTHER people do instead of doubling down on what makes your own product unique.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Would it be proper for one of the assistant coaches to come out before tipoff and get the student section fired up? I know it's not their job to do this but it seems Coach K looks at the Crazies as part of the basketball program. He has praised them and admonished them over the years. If the Crazies are that important, it makes sense to coach em up. We do have very recognizable coaches sitting next to K. They wouldn't have to spend much time with the kids, just enough to get them fired up and I'm not talking about leading them in cheers. We have great assistants that know what needs to said.

    As for the tenting, I think Native and uh no know more than most of us on DBR. I'll take their word or suggestions any day of the week. And I love weezie's post on the fsu fat boy.

    GoDuke!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    As a former HLM, I'd like to push back a little bit on the implications of the term autocracy. I know the Line Monitors don't have the best reputation, and that many have deserved it, but also I know for a fact that there are also folks on the Line Monitoring committee who work insanely hard and spend more time in and around Krzyzewskiville than most tenters. And the Line Monitors this year are working their tails off to try and keep things going strong.

    Anyway, the specific institutions surrounding Line Monitoring and Krzyzewskiville at Duke are, in my opinion, due to a Type A subculture among the students that doesn't get talked about enough around this sort of thing. For any game, there is almost always another student who is willing to line up an hour or two before you for it because they want to be first in line. It snowballs until you have something like Krzyzewskiville ó and that is exactly how the first Krzyzewskiville was started. Then you have rules and regulations put in place to make sure the People Who Get There First remain so, and once scuffles start to break out as they did in the late 80s, that's how you get the Line Monitors.

    It takes a lot of focus off of the game, and off of the home atmosphere, and puts it on winning the K-Ville rat race. If Duke students were willing to all collectively take a chill pill and agree to all show up right before tip, you'd have a lot less of this lining up rigamarole. But it's my belief that that will never, ever, ever happen due to the competitiveness inherent to each and every Duke student. (And the students have grown to be more like this as admissions have become more competitive.)
    Very helpful explanation. Thanks! And, I know you're not *that* old.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Would it be proper for one of the assistant coaches to come out before tipoff and get the student section fired up? I know it's not their job to do this but it seems Coach K looks at the Crazies as part of the basketball program. He has praised them and admonished them over the years. If the Crazies are that important, it makes sense to coach em up. We do have very recognizable coaches sitting next to K. They wouldn't have to spend much time with the kids, just enough to get them fired up and I'm not talking about leading them in cheers. We have great assistants that know what needs to said.

    As for the tenting, I think Native and uh no know more than most of us on DBR. I'll take their word or suggestions any day of the week. And I love weezie's post on the fsu fat boy.

    GoDuke!
    K does it himself the night before the carolina game.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Would it be proper for one of the assistant coaches to come out before tipoff and get the student section fired up?
    I'm sure they have other things they have to do before tipoff that are more important to our success.

    Cell phone use during the game is another culprit to the atmosphere.

    I never said anything about integrating the two systems. My vision could be done after 2-3 courses. It could be done by uh_no and clipsfan if they were so inclined. It would also be an improvement over checking my e-mail and goduke.com/tickets 15 times a day between now and Friday 5PM for naught.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    I'm sure they have other things they have to do before tipoff that are more important to our success.

    Cell phone use during the game is another culprit to the atmosphere.

    I never said anything about integrating the two systems. My vision could be done after 2-3 courses. It could be done by uh_no and clipsfan if they were so inclined. It would also be an improvement over checking my e-mail and goduke.com/tickets 15 times a day between now and Friday 5PM for naught.
    I agree and I suppose the Crazies being loud is not that big of a deal. I guess Coach K just likes to get after the Crazies at times. GoDuke!

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Would it be proper for one of the assistant coaches to come out before tipoff and get the student section fired up? I know it's not their job to do this but it seems Coach K looks at the Crazies as part of the basketball program. He has praised them and admonished them over the years. If the Crazies are that important, it makes sense to coach em up. We do have very recognizable coaches sitting next to K. They wouldn't have to spend much time with the kids, just enough to get them fired up and I'm not talking about leading them in cheers. We have great assistants that know what needs to said.

    As for the tenting, I think Native and uh no know more than most of us on DBR. I'll take their word or suggestions any day of the week. And I love weezie's post on the fsu fat boy.

    GoDuke!
    I remember back in the day, Wojo went around to the frats to encourage attendance as there was a perception that it wasn't "cool" to go to games and they wanted to have a more hostile environment which they thought fraternity members could bring...Of course, this wasn't right before the game but during downtime.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I remember back in the day, Wojo went around to the frats to encourage attendance as there was a perception that it wasn't "cool" to go to games and they wanted to have a more hostile environment which they thought fraternity members could bring...Of course, this wasn't right before the game but during downtime.
    I bump into a lot of people at alumni events who while they were in school thought they were too cool to go to games, but now that they are alums act like they are the biggest fans on earth and give the impression that they went to all of the games. This is why I don't go to many alumni events and hang out at DBR instead...

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    about 8 years ago, they started made concerted efforts to make games at Cameron more NBA-like ó the addition of the dancing devils in the portals, scheduled canned music, professional half time acts, etc. They got their wish with a more benign game atmosphere.
    Wait...youíre not on board with the Dancing Devils in the portals??!! I usually sit (courtesy of an awesome and generous Duke coach) just two-feet away from where one of the Dancing Devils performs. And yes, itís kind of embarrassing to look at her because Iím afraid those around me are going to think Iím some kind of weirdo ó you know, considering sheís probably 18 or 19 and Iím, umm...not. But I still think itís a great addition.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    [/I][/B]

    I'm sure there are lot of causes but I agree with this. Men's basketball has been most impacted by the allure of pro leagues and due to Duke's prestige we get a lot of the one-and-dones. I was at Duke in the late 90s/early 00s just as guys like Williams, Brand, and Boozer were starting to leave after 2 or 3 years. But you saw them around campus, in some cases even got to know them. I don't know how accessible the current one-and-done stars are but it's tough to build a crazie-to-athlete relationship when you're rooting for fresh faces each year. Hell, it's impacted my enjoyment of the game, why not the Crazies'!
    Honestly that is something that is a bit difficult for all fans, not just students. Kind of why some fans (me) have latched on to guys like Goldwire.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I routinely sit in front of elderly folks, fans whoíve been there for decades - many pre-K. They have great difficulty standing; one leaves his walker outside the portal. For several years, my mom was one of the ones who couldnít stand.

    I jump up to celebrate, but generally donít stand more than momentarily.

    -jk
    This is my approach. My willingness to stand at events (not just Duke basketball games) has a lot to do with who is behind me. Older folks or people who would clearly have trouble standing up to see over me? I mostly stay seated, if I jump up in excitement I try to be back down before any real action starts. I also kind of keep an eye behind me, if that person does decide to stand obviously it means I can also do so freely. On the other hand, someone younger or who can clearly stand up if they want to? Sorry bud, I'm gonna stand when I wanna stand. I also don't think I've ever been asked to sit down by anyone at any event, which makes me wonder if some of the people who say they are catching glares/side-eye when the stand might be reading something into the situation that isn't there.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    about 8 years ago, they started made concerted efforts to make games at NBA more cameron like (the addition of the dancing devils in the portals, scheduled canned music, professional half time acts). They got their wish with a more benign game atmostphere.

    Classic marketing mistake...attempting to focus on what OTHER people do instead of doubling down on what makes your own product unique.
    ...did you mean "make games at Cameron more NBA like"?

    In any case, yes all of those things detract from the atmosphere, especially the canned music that immediately shuts down any student/general crowd enthusiasm. Also, I'm a person that goes to a lot of concerts. Loud concerts in small spaces. And I find the piped in music at Cameron to be pretty much unbearably loud (in addition to being terrible, but I recognize that is subjective).

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I remember back in the day, Wojo went around to the frats to encourage attendance as there was a perception that it wasn't "cool" to go to games and they wanted to have a more hostile environment which they thought fraternity members could bring...Of course, this wasn't right before the game but during downtime.
    After '95 the walls around the basketball program in general and Coach K in particular kept getting higher and higher. I don't know that anything will change while K is still the coach but after he's gone those walls must get a lot shorter.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    ...I also don't think I've ever been asked to sit down by anyone at any event, which makes me wonder if some of the people who say they are catching glares/side-eye when the stand might be reading something into the situation that isn't there.
    I have been poked in the back by a cane on more than one occasion. 👿

    -jk

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I have been poked in the back by a cane on more than one occasion. 👿

    -jk
    To be fair, the guy with the cane had a legitimate reason to want you to sit

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    ...makes me wonder if some of the people who say they are catching glares/side-eye when the stand might be reading something into the situation that isn't there.
    I also said that people have literally voiced their desire to have me sit because Iím blocking their view. There is no mistaking that.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    To be fair, the guy with the cane had a legitimate reason to want you to sit
    people using canes as poking devices is actually a pretty big issue in cameron. I totally get that people don't want their views blocked, and it's important to be cognizant of people behind you, but cameron also isn't the most, shall we say, ergonomically designed...so getting blocked for a few seconds every once in a while is du-jour.

    In any case, the department has to ride the line of understanding the donor concerns while trying to curb the behavior. I have one especially problematic fan in my section whose cane-actions bordered on assault and I told him I'd have him removed from the building if he used his cane to contact another guest again.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    As a former HLM, I'd like to push back a little bit on the implications of the term autocracy. I know the Line Monitors don't have the best reputation, and that many have deserved it, but also I know for a fact that there are also folks on the Line Monitoring committee who work insanely hard and spend more time in and around Krzyzewskiville than most tenters. And the Line Monitors this year are working their tails off to try and keep things going strong.

    Anyway, the specific institutions surrounding Line Monitoring and Krzyzewskiville at Duke are, in my opinion, due to a Type A subculture among the students that doesn't get talked about enough around this sort of thing. For any game, there is almost always another student who is willing to line up an hour or two before you for it because they want to be first in line. It snowballs until you have something like Krzyzewskiville ó and that is exactly how the first Krzyzewskiville was started. Then you have rules and regulations put in place to make sure the People Who Get There First remain so, and once scuffles start to break out as they did in the late 80s, that's how you get the Line Monitors.

    It takes a lot of focus off of the game, and off of the home atmosphere, and puts it on winning the K-Ville rat race. If Duke students were willing to all collectively take a chill pill and agree to all show up right before tip, you'd have a lot less of this lining up rigamarole. But it's my belief that that will never, ever, ever happen due to the competitiveness inherent to each and every Duke student. (And the students have grown to be more like this as admissions have become more competitive.)
    Another former HLM (in the days where we only had 1), and Native makes great points. When I was HLM, the first tent lined up on December 26th. They called me to inform that the only reason that they did it then was "we didn't want to call you on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day." There will always be some people who want to line up 1 minute before the first people in line. There are also people that want to show up at tip-off and sit center court and don't come unless that's a reality. As the HLM, I had to manage all of that. We weren't doing nothing for those seats (and in my day, the LMs stood across from the opposing bench so that we could lead the charge in tormenting the other team for 2+ hours). There's a lot of programming involved with making K-Ville the center of student life for a couple months every winter. In the end, I wanted everyone to have the same fun I had while tenting, and I'd like to think that most who tented under me were able to have that fun.

    I've always wanted to go back to campus every fall to do a 1 night program in Cameron to teach all the chants to incoming freshmen (and any others who wanted to show up) and really pass along the power they have to make our team that much greater and how much fun it can be. Also, it's to let them know that us older graduates are 100% behind them. We want the Crazies to succeed every game. We want everyone who watches a game to be like, "Wow, the Crazies were ON. IT. tonight. They made a difference." Those who know me know I coordinate the exact same thing for the U.S. national soccer teams, and we make a difference in the stands. But, the Cameron Crazies can affect a scoreline line no other section. They can affect Vegas lines. Times and the makeup of the Crazies change from year to year, but that foundation can remain the same if we all work together and not seek to tear that foundation down.

    So, to anyone out there in DUAA, holler at me. I'll come down at any time and make this an annual thing. The passion and energy the Crazies possess can be powerful and infectious, and I'm ready to help them spread it.
    Check out the DBR Podcast!

    2003-2004 HLM
    Duke | Mirecourt | Detroit| The U | USA

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Another former HLM (in the days where we only had 1), and Native makes great points. When I was HLM, the first tent lined up on December 26th. They called me to inform that the only reason that they did it then was "we didn't want to call you on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day." There will always be some people who want to line up 1 minute before the first people in line. There are also people that want to show up at tip-off and sit center court and don't come unless that's a reality. As the HLM, I had to manage all of that. We weren't doing nothing for those seats (and in my day, the LMs stood across from the opposing bench so that we could lead the charge in tormenting the other team for 2+ hours). There's a lot of programming involved with making K-Ville the center of student life for a couple months every winter. In the end, I wanted everyone to have the same fun I had while tenting, and I'd like to think that most who tented under me were able to have that fun.

    I've always wanted to go back to campus every fall to do a 1 night program in Cameron to teach all the chants to incoming freshmen (and any others who wanted to show up) and really pass along the power they have to make our team that much greater and how much fun it can be. Also, it's to let them know that us older graduates are 100% behind them. We want the Crazies to succeed every game. We want everyone who watches a game to be like, "Wow, the Crazies were ON. IT. tonight. They made a difference." Those who know me know I coordinate the exact same thing for the U.S. national soccer teams, and we make a difference in the stands. But, the Cameron Crazies can affect a scoreline line no other section. They can affect Vegas lines. Times and the makeup of the Crazies change from year to year, but that foundation can remain the same if we all work together and not seek to tear that foundation down.

    So, to anyone out there in DUAA, holler at me. I'll come down at any time and make this an annual thing. The passion and energy the Crazies possess can be powerful and infectious, and I'm ready to help them spread it.
    it happened when i was a freshman. they got people there incentivizing them with a bunch of giveaways and free food.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I appreciate the feedback from Steven43 and Weezie about my original post. Just to clarify my position: Cameron sits 9,314 and according to GoDuke.com the upper bowl sits 5,649 (or approximately 60% of the total capacity). I think it is misguided of K to focus all of his "concern" over lack of appreciation for his team on the undergraduate student section. He (or his staff or his emissaries) should be talking to the entire crowd. My concern is that the crowd is becoming more corporate and that folks are there to be entertained and to be seen, not necessarily to cheer. Recall that the seats behind both benches used to be student seating when K was building the program. Now the seats behind Duke's bench are for "guests" and recruits. If students do not want to come to games, so be it. Sell those seats to willing buyers. But, IMO, that runs the risk of Cameron becoming more like the Myth Dome and less like the rowdy Cameron of my undergraduate days.

    It takes a village.

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