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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Earth
    I just filled out a survey from Duke about my "FSU Cameron Experience." I watched on TV because they didn't tell me tickets were available. While it is obvious that UNC will not be available for a long time, it is unreasonable to expect fans to pay to park only to find out you have to watch in the Bryan Center, Washington Duke, or speed home. Tell me in advance that I can get the ND tickets I want, and I'll be there on Saturday.

    CS is the most popular major at Duke now. It would be a great project for the students to make a ticket app to fill Cameron. Paciolan is expensive, I'm sure, and isn't doing an A+ job for the ticket office.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    My thoughts exactly. There's a great argument to be made for some sort of hybrid system: i.e. you can only blue tent if your tent attends a certain number of games, etc. I believe ideas of this form have been floated in some form or another for years now, although nothing concrete has come to fruition.

    There's also a legitimate question of cause and effect in these discussions. When I was a student, there were times where there was an important game but I also had tons of work coming up, so I knew I wanted to walk up near tip-off, get bad seats, enjoy the game and cheer my butt off, but then go home and study (i.e. I needed a game-day experience on the order of two hours, not twelve). But the students who want to do that (and I think have every right to and should be encouraged!) are hard to account for when the athletic department estimates how many students are going to attend a game and how many general admission tickets to sell. So, are the sides of the student section being filled by GA tickets because there isn't enough student interest? Or, is it possible that the AD is underestimating student interest based solely off of the walk-up line, and students who might have come to Cameron a half-hour before game time are now discouraged from doing so?

    To be clear, I have no knowledge of which situation we find ourselves in. But it is one of the drawbacks of the Duke system, where students don't buy tickets but have the right to go to any athletic competition as part of their tuition, that it's an open question.

    Now, I'm not sure what the solution is, especially given the uniqueness of the small student section and small enrollment at Duke. But as an example, when Michigan basketball started picking up steam, the athletic department instituted an interesting strategy: while when you bought your season ticket you technically had the right to go to every game, they also asked students to "claim" a ticket for each game they actually intended on attending. This allowed the athletic department to know how many tickets in the student section would be available for sale. Student attendance was also encouraged in this fashion, because students who attended every game they "claimed" got priority for big time games at the end of the year and tournament tickets, while students who "missed" a certain number of games they claimed (they kept track by scanning student ID cards) might not be allowed to claim tickets to big games later in the year.

    In no way am I saying this type of system should be implemented at Duke. I highlight it only to mention that this challenge isn't one that only Duke faces, and there are creative solutions out there if the problem is becoming that big of a strain on the relationship between the Crazies and the athletic department. Typically the Crazies have responded when K has called them out in the past, so I think the turnout for the Notre Dame game will be a good indicator of what's to come on this front.

    When I was there, I always thought one of the biggest issues for a lot of kids was similar to what you said here. People don't even know they can get into games if they don't line up 3/4 hours before tip, then 2 hours at the game. I've always thought that for your regular, run of the mill games, they shouldn't let anyone line up until 2 hours before the game at the earliest. That way, no one feels like they have to spend all day waiting in line. It's just an optics thing for a lot of kids.

    That way, the line monitors can keep there little autocracy, monitor the lines and get their good seats, but hopefully, more kids will think they can put in a reasonable amount of time and get a good seat.

    Super contrarian take here, and I know that, but I think the tenting system is dumb. I hated having to do it. My family and I didn't take on debt so that I could go to Duke so that I could sleep outside in the winter. I love Duke ball, I love going to games, I love Cameron, but man did I hate tenting (did not want to risk not getting into the UNC game by using walk-up line).
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by hallcity View Post
    Coach K was unhappy with student attendance for the FSU game. I was too. The student section wasn't full even it was evident that though quite a number of the tickets had been sold to non-students. I don't understand this. It was a crucial game.

    Let me make a modest suggestion. It's time to ditch K-ville. Give the UNC game tickets to the students who attend the most games. That's the best way to show loyalty to the program, not spending chilly nights in a tent.
    Agree. Time for the Tent City to be disbanded. I would go on a points system that would include football and possibly other sports along with basketball - priority then goes to the kids who support Duke sports.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    [/I][/B]

    I'm sure there are lot of causes but I agree with this. Men's basketball has been most impacted by the allure of pro leagues and due to Duke's prestige we get a lot of the one-and-dones. I was at Duke in the late 90s/early 00s just as guys like Williams, Brand, and Boozer were starting to leave after 2 or 3 years. But you saw them around campus, in some cases even got to know them. I don't know how accessible the current one-and-done stars are but it's tough to build a crazie-to-athlete relationship when you're rooting for fresh faces each year. Hell, it's impacted my enjoyment of the game, why not the Crazies'!
    Do you have a lawn you'd like for us to get off?

    Kidding. I'm sure this is true for some folks, but I bet Jack and Javin aren't exactly all that accessible either. Outside of classes, why would they spend any time outside of the basketball facilities? Those are some of the nicest places on campus where all their amenities and benefits are. Plus, it's even more a full time job now that it was even 10 years ago. I don't think if you had a team full of 4 year guys that you would see them around that much.

    In fact, I would guess the freshmen are the most accessible since they have to live in a dorm, eat the marketplace, take the bus, etc. Once they move off campus or move into the new dorms on west right next to Cameron, forget it.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by duke2x View Post
    CS is the most popular major at Duke now. It would be a great project for the students to make a ticket app to fill Cameron. Paciolan is expensive, I'm sure, and isn't doing an A+ job for the ticket office.
    you're underselling what goes into enterprise applications. support and insurance would be the biggest issues, but i'm also skeptical most students have the ability to built an application at the levels of scale, security, and reliability required for such a use case. It's not that the ability isn't ultimately there, but experience counts a huge amount.

    I teach CS students at duke, and I know they're capable of doing really cool things...but am I going to trust them to build a business-critical application? probably not. It's not worth the risk.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    When I was there, I always thought one of the biggest issues for a lot of kids was similar to what you said here. People don't even know they can get into games if they don't line up 3/4 hours before tip, then 2 hours at the game. I've always thought that for your regular, run of the mill games, they shouldn't let anyone line up until 2 hours before the game at the earliest. That way, no one feels like they have to spend all day waiting in line. It's just an optics thing for a lot of kids.

    That way, the line monitors can keep there little autocracy, monitor the lines and get their good seats, but hopefully, more kids will think they can put in a reasonable amount of time and get a good seat.

    Super contrarian take here, and I know that, but I think the tenting system is dumb. I hated having to do it. My family and I didn't take on debt so that I could go to Duke so that I could sleep outside in the winter. I love Duke ball, I love going to games, I love Cameron, but man did I hate tenting (did not want to risk not getting into the UNC game by using walk-up line).
    preventing students from lining up before a fixed time was one of the major factors behind the riots before the UNC game 2 years ago. given no structure, the students will find their own way to decide "who goes first," and its not always equitable.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    preventing students from lining up before a fixed time was one of the major factors behind the riots before the UNC game 2 years ago. given no structure, the students will find their own way to decide "who goes first," and its not always equitable.
    I thought they just chose not to obey the rules that were in place. Not sure how much of a problem this would cause outside of UNC game, but your point is well taken.

    I was thinking about a Mad Max Thunderdome type situation though. That won't work? Dang. I'm out of ideas. They should just give tickets out to DBR members then.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Don't forget grade inflation. Many (most?) undergrads contemplate going to graduate/professional school after graduation. Back in the Dark Ages when I attended, a 3.0 put you in the top 15-20% of the class and generally guaranteed a good graduate/professional school program. Now a 3.0 puts you in the bottom third or fourth of the class. As grades are inflated minor differences become magnified. A student contemplating an extra two hours of studying versus attending basketball games and getting and half grade lower well may decide to skip the games in pursuit of longer term goals. And since all the games are on TV, they can still follow the action. And have a better view than showing up at game time and having to stand at the very end of the bleacher which is sideline endzone.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    I thought they just chose not to obey the rules that were in place. Not sure how much of a problem this would cause outside of UNC game, but your point is well taken.

    I was thinking about a Mad Max Thunderdome type situation though. That won't work? Dang. I'm out of ideas. They should just give tickets out to DBR members then.
    the walkup line "began" like the wednesday before the game. once the walkup line begins, you have an official place in line, line checks, etc. But the order you are in the walk-up line was determined by when you registered. So students formed a line to wait to register for the walk up line...without an official place, or line checks, or policy. Without any structure, there was a lot of shenanigans...like one person holding a place for a ton of people, or some such. Of course not everyone is guaranteed to get into the game, so this drove tension on game day.

    Obviously it wasn't the final straw, which was likely totally wasted students and a poorly-conceived queue before security...but it was a contributing factor.


    The problem is solved relatively gracefully with white tenting with the "race to the spot" and when blue tenting was getting pushed earlier and earlier (with a tent trying to line up at thanksgiving one year (2010?) before being told to go home), it was solved with black tenting...a more arduous week, and ultimately a trivia contest to sort it out.

    Anyway, point is, there would have to be a sorting mechanism for students who are willing to wait longer than some mandated "start time." Now, I don't advocate for your proposed plan regardless, but there are ways to limit waiting times if it was chosen to go that route.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Lumberton, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIECB View Post
    Has anyone had any luck with tickets on the goduke.com site? You can "reserve" tickets for a particular game and if they become available you can pick them up at will call. I'm a little hesitant to try it because I live 2 hours away and I'm not sure how much advance warning I would have. Anyone have any experience?
    I put in a request for one ticket the morning of the game because I thought getting one ticket would be easier than two for a top ten match-up. I got a call a couple of hours later saying they had tickets available. I asked for two and they said they could do it. I got center court tickets (section 15 row B). I donate $100 a year.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by TKG View Post
    It seems to me that he should be calling out the folks in the upper levels (who the kids had to implore to stand up during critical times of last night's game) or the folks seated behind his bench or the folks seated under each of the baskets. The ticket holders tend to be older with more life experience, perhaps they should be expected to show the appreciation that K wants for his team. It's not only on the students.
    Let me tell you, several times when Iíve been in the stands and spontaneously stood up to cheer I have gotten glares and even negative comments from the folks whose view I have temporarily blocked. Coach K the assistants, and the players may not know that this does sometimes happen to those who stand. It makes you feel reluctant to stand unless everybody gets to their feet en masse.

    Another thing: many of the upper level fans are not exactly young. I know from being around my parents and other elderly people that it gets harder and harder to stand up the older one gets.

    Also, the folks in the upper levels are not students; they paid for their tickets. I donít think most adults take kindly to being scolded into standing and cheering for college kids playing basketball. If they want to stand, thatís fine. If not, thatís also fine.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Manhattan
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    That way, the line monitors can keep there little autocracy, monitor the lines and get their good seats, but hopefully, more kids will think they can put in a reasonable amount of time and get a good seat.
    As a former HLM, I'd like to push back a little bit on the implications of the term autocracy. I know the Line Monitors don't have the best reputation, and that many have deserved it, but also I know for a fact that there are also folks on the Line Monitoring committee who work insanely hard and spend more time in and around Krzyzewskiville than most tenters. And the Line Monitors this year are working their tails off to try and keep things going strong.

    Anyway, the specific institutions surrounding Line Monitoring and Krzyzewskiville at Duke are, in my opinion, due to a Type A subculture among the students that doesn't get talked about enough around this sort of thing. For any game, there is almost always another student who is willing to line up an hour or two before you for it because they want to be first in line. It snowballs until you have something like Krzyzewskiville — and that is exactly how the first Krzyzewskiville was started. Then you have rules and regulations put in place to make sure the People Who Get There First remain so, and once scuffles start to break out as they did in the late 80s, that's how you get the Line Monitors.

    It takes a lot of focus off of the game, and off of the home atmosphere, and puts it on winning the K-Ville rat race. If Duke students were willing to all collectively take a chill pill and agree to all show up right before tip, you'd have a lot less of this lining up rigamarole. But it's my belief that that will never, ever, ever happen due to the competitiveness inherent to each and every Duke student. (And the students have grown to be more like this as admissions have become more competitive.)
    Last edited by Native; 02-12-2020 at 08:19 AM.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Is it really being competitive? Or is it, yíknow, wanting the best seat? Iím competitive as anyone but I just wanted great seats, not to beat my classmates.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    As a former HLM, I'd like to push back a little bit on the implications of the term autocracy. I know the Line Monitors don't have the best reputation, and that many have deserved it, but also I that there are also folks on the Line Monitoring committee who work insanely hard and spend more time in and around Krzyzewskiville than most tenters. And the Line Monitors this year are working their tails off to try and keep things going strong.

    Anyway, the specific institutions surrounding Line Monitoring and Krzyzewskiville at Duke are, in my opinion, due to a Type A subculture among the students that doesn't get talked about enough around this sort of thing. For any game, there is almost always another student who is willing to line up an hour or two before you for it because they want to be first in line. It snowballs until you have something like Krzyzewskiville ó and that is exactly how the first Krzyzewskiville was started. Then you have rules and regulations put in place to make sure the People Who Get There First remain so, and once scuffles start to break out as they did in the late 80s, that's how you get the Line Monitors.

    It takes a lot of focus off of the game, and off of the home atmosphere, and puts it on winning the K-Ville rat race. If Duke students were willing to all collectively take a chill pill and agree to all show up right before tip, you'd have a lot less of this lining up rigamarole. But it's my belief that that will never, ever, ever happen due to the competitiveness inherent to each and every Duke student. (And the students have grown to be more like this as admissions have become more competitive.)
    I still believe Lord Acton.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Manhattan
    Quote Originally Posted by npdevil27 View Post
    Is it really being competitive? Or is it, yíknow, wanting the best seat? Iím competitive as anyone but I just wanted great seats, not to beat my classmates.
    It's my opinion that there's a segment of students nowadays for whom it is primarily about being First for the sole purpose of being First. But, as with all opinions, your mileage may vary.

    At the end of the day, though, it comes down to the same thing, regardless of the goal. It's a competitive market, and K-Ville and the Line Monitors were how students collectively chose to address it. The students could all go to K-Ville tomorrow and say, "We don't want to do this anymore," and ó poof ó K-Ville would cease to exist.

    But students continue to make that choice, every day ó in part because there is some genuine good in the atmosphere around tenting, and many students still see it as a part of building camaraderie as a Duke student. Perhaps it would just take a really strong student leader to get them to the point of change. Or maybe K-Ville works exactly as everyone wants it to and no change is necessary. Nobody really knows, but the only people who are in the position to decide are the current students. They have to figure out the best system for them.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    My son and I were discussing the Cameron situation on the way back to Virginia this morning.
    My husband and I go all the time, he only gets once, twice per season so he's more tuned in to the fact that the whole experience hasn't changed in years. Same songs at exact same breaks every game. Same canned music that's not aging well either. We were thinking of writing a very respectful letter with some suggestions on bringing some freshness into the mix.

    And yeah, it'll go nowhere.
    I could not agree more with this. When the game is not on, Cameron has become boring, suffering significantly from being preprogrammed.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Let me tell you, several times when Iíve been in the stands and spontaneously stood up to cheer I have gotten glares and even negative comments from the folks whose view I have temporarily blocked...
    Amen to this. I've posted similar comments. I really can't help jumping up. It's ridiculous, sure, but that's the way it is. The folks way up behind us sometimes comment as we're exiting after the game, always positive and laughing about how nuts I get but the ones immediately behind (a rotating cast since the tickets are usually Stubhubbed) sometimes get steamed. The more elderly fans don't complain, it's always the fat guy type who paid his money and demands that he not have to get up for anything except perhaps his next helping of nachos. I'm looking at you fat guy from fsu.

    I've noticed that most of the upper sections do stand up but the very big-wig midcourt block across from the bench seem to be the least receptive to the coaches admonishments.

    Whatever.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    The more elderly fans don't complain, it's always the fat guy type who paid his money and demands that he not have to get up for anything except perhaps his next helping of nachos. I'm looking at you fat guy from fsu.
    Ugh. What did Nigel ďBig JellyĒ Dixon ever do to you?

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Amen to this. I've posted similar comments. I really can't help jumping up. It's ridiculous, sure, but that's the way it is. The folks way up behind us sometimes comment as we're exiting after the game, always positive and laughing about how nuts I get but the ones immediately behind (a rotating cast since the tickets are usually Stubhubbed) sometimes get steamed. The more elderly fans don't complain, it's always the fat guy type who paid his money and demands that he not have to get up for anything except perhaps his next helping of nachos. I'm looking at you fat guy from fsu.

    I've noticed that most of the upper sections do stand up but the very big-wig midcourt block across from the bench seem to be the least receptive to the coaches admonishments.

    Whatever.
    I routinely sit in front of elderly folks, fans whoíve been there for decades - many pre-K. They have great difficulty standing; one leaves his walker outside the portal. For several years, my mom was one of the ones who couldnít stand.

    I jump up to celebrate, but generally donít stand more than momentarily.

    -jk

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    you're underselling what goes into enterprise applications. support and insurance would be the biggest issues, but i'm also skeptical most students have the ability to built an application at the levels of scale, security, and reliability required for such a use case. It's not that the ability isn't ultimately there, but experience counts a huge amount.

    I teach CS students at duke, and I know they're capable of doing really cool things...but am I going to trust them to build a business-critical application? probably not. It's not worth the risk.
    I worked for a ticketing app for a while and I can tell you that it takes a LOT to build a good one. We had top notch software engineers (largely ex-Amazon, Google, FB) working full-time on projects and issues always arose anyway. Just the nature of coding where integration into other systems is part of the work. It might be fun for the students to try and take it on but I would expect a lot of problems.

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