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  1. #1

    Student Attendance

    Coach K was unhappy with student attendance for the FSU game. I was too. The student section wasn't full even it was evident that though quite a number of the tickets had been sold to non-students. I don't understand this. It was a crucial game.

    Let me make a modest suggestion. It's time to ditch K-ville. Give the UNC game tickets to the students who attend the most games. That's the best way to show loyalty to the program, not spending chilly nights in a tent.

  2. #2
    scottdude8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallcity View Post
    Coach K was unhappy with student attendance for the FSU game. I was too. The student section wasn't full even it was evident that though quite a number of the tickets had been sold to non-students. I don't understand this. It was a crucial game.

    Let me make a modest suggestion. It's time to ditch K-ville. Give the UNC game tickets to the students who attend the most games. That's the best way to show loyalty to the program, not spending chilly nights in a tent.
    With all due respect, that's more than a modest suggestion. That would be a fundamental reorganization of the entire Duke Basketball experience for students, not to mention more broadly a huge change to student life at Duke.

    I'm not saying the idea necessarily doesn't have merit, nor is it not worth discussion. But let's be clear, that's in no way a modest suggestion.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    With all due respect, that's more than a modest suggestion. That would be a fundamental reorganization of the entire Duke Basketball experience for students, not to mention more broadly a huge change to student life at Duke.

    I'm not saying the idea necessarily doesn't have merit, nor is it not worth discussion. But let's be clear, that's in no way a modest suggestion.
    Also, there's no need to ditch K-ville to implement a similar sort of policy. I was already in favor of doing something like that when I was a student. For example, you could only be admitted within the first X number of students if you had attended Y games. A surprising number of students do the tenting just for the experience and aren't that interested in the games.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BLPOG View Post
    Also, there's no need to ditch K-ville to implement a similar sort of policy. I was already in favor of doing something like that when I was a student. For example, you could only be admitted within the first X number of students if you had attended Y games. A surprising number of students do the tenting just for the experience and aren't that interested in the games.
    To elaborate a bit, you could determine priority using number of games attended, break that tie using number of nights tenting/passed checks, and break that tie using sign-up order.

  5. #5
    My son and I were discussing the Cameron situation on the way back to Virginia this morning.
    My husband and I go all the time, he only gets once, twice per season so he's more tuned in to the fact that the whole experience hasn't changed in years. Same songs at exact same breaks every game. Same canned music that's not aging well either. We were thinking of writing a very respectful letter with some suggestions on bringing some freshness into the mix.

    And yeah, it'll go nowhere.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    My son and I were discussing the Cameron situation on the way back to Virginia this morning.
    My husband and I go all the time, he only gets once, twice per season so he's more tuned in to the fact that the whole experience hasn't changed in years. Same songs at exact same breaks every game. Same canned music that's not aging well either. We were thinking of writing a very respectful letter with some suggestions on bringing some freshness into the mix.

    And yeah, it'll go nowhere.
    Don't forget to mention FB issues like concessions. And the security checks. And, never mind...
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallcity View Post
    Coach K was unhappy with student attendance for the FSU game. I was too. The student section wasn't full even it was evident that though quite a number of the tickets had been sold to non-students. I don't understand this. It was a crucial game.

    Let me make a modest suggestion. It's time to ditch K-ville. Give the UNC game tickets to the students who attend the most games. That's the best way to show loyalty to the program, not spending chilly nights in a tent.
    what does tenting have to do with last night's game? you didn't have to tent to go to the game last night.

    That said, the attendance was pretty lackluster.


    A couple notes:

    - in many years, only the UNC game is full, and by that I mean students are turned away.
    - students get hyped for rivalries and big name players/coaches. FSU is neither. IMO the students would have been more hyped for virginia, syracuse, or MSU...even if ranked less well than FSU
    - that said, they were not "full" for the louisville game, despite being a huge game. on a saturday.
    - in terms of this game, they had to decide how many tickets to sell based on the number of registered students BEFORE the UNC game. at the time, only 500 students or something had registered. Obviously more showed up, but that's when the decision was made to sell 350 or whatever they sold.
    - I thought the students that were there were plenty loud and into the game.


    Anyway, I think midterms and the short turnaround from UNC were the biggest factors.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    And yeah, it'll go nowhere.
    I think many of us probably know people inside the department, and they're not bad people, and many of them are overworked in an often stressful environment. But either because of that lack of cycles, or enablement to make effective change, I can see why momentum rules. It's probably why concessions are in the dark ages, why they didn't bother with alcohol sales even as the other triangle schools are forcing their hand, why security was so lax for so long (ushering in the draconian policies we have today), why despite huge amounts of complaints, we haven't explored consulting on how we can have policies more in line with every other sports league, (including the one run by the guy who purportedly forced the department to increase security in the first place), why it took years to fix the leaks in the roof in cameron... I'm sure the list goes on and many of you know better than I.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  9. #9
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLPOG View Post
    Also, there's no need to ditch K-ville to implement a similar sort of policy. I was already in favor of doing something like that when I was a student. For example, you could only be admitted within the first X number of students if you had attended Y games. A surprising number of students do the tenting just for the experience and aren't that interested in the games.
    My thoughts exactly. There's a great argument to be made for some sort of hybrid system: i.e. you can only blue tent if your tent attends a certain number of games, etc. I believe ideas of this form have been floated in some form or another for years now, although nothing concrete has come to fruition.

    There's also a legitimate question of cause and effect in these discussions. When I was a student, there were times where there was an important game but I also had tons of work coming up, so I knew I wanted to walk up near tip-off, get bad seats, enjoy the game and cheer my butt off, but then go home and study (i.e. I needed a game-day experience on the order of two hours, not twelve). But the students who want to do that (and I think have every right to and should be encouraged!) are hard to account for when the athletic department estimates how many students are going to attend a game and how many general admission tickets to sell. So, are the sides of the student section being filled by GA tickets because there isn't enough student interest? Or, is it possible that the AD is underestimating student interest based solely off of the walk-up line, and students who might have come to Cameron a half-hour before game time are now discouraged from doing so?

    To be clear, I have no knowledge of which situation we find ourselves in. But it is one of the drawbacks of the Duke system, where students don't buy tickets but have the right to go to any athletic competition as part of their tuition, that it's an open question.

    Now, I'm not sure what the solution is, especially given the uniqueness of the small student section and small enrollment at Duke. But as an example, when Michigan basketball started picking up steam, the athletic department instituted an interesting strategy: while when you bought your season ticket you technically had the right to go to every game, they also asked students to "claim" a ticket for each game they actually intended on attending. This allowed the athletic department to know how many tickets in the student section would be available for sale. Student attendance was also encouraged in this fashion, because students who attended every game they "claimed" got priority for big time games at the end of the year and tournament tickets, while students who "missed" a certain number of games they claimed (they kept track by scanning student ID cards) might not be allowed to claim tickets to big games later in the year.

    In no way am I saying this type of system should be implemented at Duke. I highlight it only to mention that this challenge isn't one that only Duke faces, and there are creative solutions out there if the problem is becoming that big of a strain on the relationship between the Crazies and the athletic department. Typically the Crazies have responded when K has called them out in the past, so I think the turnout for the Notre Dame game will be a good indicator of what's to come on this front.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  10. #10
    Duke is pretty rare that students don't have to pay for tickets. Paradoxically, maybe attendance would be better if they had to get season tickets because then you'd feel obligated to attend (or give/sell the ticket to somebody else). Of course, they wouldn't do that and I'm not necessarily in favor or charging but just an interesting proposition.

    We've had this discussion on the board for quite some time, I'm sure it's in throatybeards guide. But it's true that Duke students are largely at Duke because of academics and not to watch sporting events. There are fewer die hard fans attending nowadays. While I thought it was a great time and would highly encourage students to attend, I don't think it's ridiculous to see that some students on a Monday night instead are practicing music, studying for a midterm, doing research, whatever. I do think it should also be made clearer that you can walk up at tipoff and get in. I've seen that not always be the case even if there are empty seats. A lot students see it as a 3+ time commitment to show up an hour early and just don't want to prioritize that for 20 games during the year.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    So, are the sides of the student section being filled by GA tickets because there isn't enough student interest? Or, is it possible that the AD is underestimating student interest based solely off of the walk-up line, and students who might have come to Cameron a half-hour before game time are now discouraged from doing so?
    This is not a bad question, but I don't THINK it is the case. I think only the UL game there was a space issue (they had to give students spare upstairs tickets), but the line monitors attempt to do a good job keeping the GAs out of the student space until just before tipoff, so the seats that students actually take up should not change.

    I'll see the HLM tonight...might nudge him to take a gander here, as he undoubtedly has good insight as to how and why things happen the way they do.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Duke is pretty rare that students don't have to pay for tickets. Paradoxically, maybe attendance would be better if they had to get season tickets because then you'd feel obligated to attend (or give/sell the ticket to somebody else). Of course, they wouldn't do that and I'm not necessarily in favor or charging but just an interesting proposition.

    We've had this discussion on the board for quite some time, I'm sure it's in throatybeards guide. But it's true that Duke students are largely at Duke because of academics and not to watch sporting events. There are fewer die hard fans attending nowadays. While I thought it was a great time and would highly encourage students to attend, I don't think it's ridiculous to see that some students on a Monday night instead are practicing music, studying for a midterm, doing research, whatever. I do think it should also be made clearer that you can walk up at tipoff and get in. I've seen that not always be the case even if there are empty seats. A lot students see it as a 3+ time commitment to show up an hour early and just don't want to prioritize that for 20 games during the year.
    But FSU is one of only two ranked teams that will come to Cameron this year. So what if itís Monday night instead of Wednesday night; if students arenít coming to that game I doubt they come to others except for Cheat game.

    Just think how bad student attendance could be in a down season after K leaves (Boston College - like?).

    Anybody know the max number of undergrad student seats available?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    This is not a bad question, but I don't THINK it is the case. I think only the UL game there was a space issue (they had to give students spare upstairs tickets), but the line monitors attempt to do a good job keeping the GAs out of the student space until just before tipoff, so the seats that students actually take up should not change.

    I'll see the HLM tonight...might nudge him to take a gander here, as he undoubtedly has good insight as to how and why things happen the way they do.
    Native is a former HLM, too, and might provide some insight, but, I saw him seated upstairs over the holidays, so he's a Crustie now and might not remember that *far* back in time...

    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    But FSU is one of only two ranked teams that will come to Cameron this year. So what if itís Monday night instead of Wednesday night; if students arenít coming to that game I doubt they come to others except for Cheat game.

    Just think how bad student attendance could be in a down season after K leaves (Boston College - like?).

    Anybody know the max number of undergrad student seats available?
    My recollection/estimate is 1200-1300 with some creative "accounting" during high profile games allowing a "few" (hundred) more.
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnie View Post
    But FSU is one of only two ranked teams that will come to Cameron this year. So what if it’s Monday night instead of Wednesday night; if students aren’t coming to that game I doubt they come to others except for Cheat game.

    Just think how bad student attendance could be in a down season after K leaves (Boston College - like?).

    Anybody know the max number of undergrad student seats available?
    ~1600 if everyone fasts and sucks it in, though only 1200 or so guaranteed.
    Dear kindly Sergeant Swofford
    You gotta understand
    It's just a class was offered
    every student in the land!
    Our students all are flunkies
    Our teachers all are chumps
    Golly Moses, a total garbage dump!

    Gee, Officer Swofford
    We're down on our knees
    'Cause we don't want to take down such a banner as these
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    What are we to do?
    Gee, Officer Swofford
    Swoff you!

  16. #16
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    Has anyone had any luck with tickets on the goduke.com site? You can "reserve" tickets for a particular game and if they become available you can pick them up at will call. I'm a little hesitant to try it because I live 2 hours away and I'm not sure how much advance warning I would have. Anyone have any experience?
    "The future ain't what it used to be."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    ~1600 if everyone fasts and sucks it in, though only 1200 or so guaranteed.
    Am I the only one who read this word wrong? That's what I was afraid of. I will go sit in the corner now.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIECB View Post
    Has anyone had any luck with tickets on the goduke.com site? You can "reserve" tickets for a particular game and if they become available you can pick them up at will call. I'm a little hesitant to try it because I live 2 hours away and I'm not sure how much advance warning I would have. Anyone have any experience?
    Generally, they give you 3-5 days notice, and you can say no if it turns out it doesn't work for you. But if you add a note something like "at least 4 hours notice would be enough", that might allow you to be a later fill in.

    You don't know which price level you will get, and they can range from $75-almost 200.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post
    Native is a former HLM, too, and might provide some insight, but, I saw him seated upstairs over the holidays, so he's a Crustie now and might not remember that *far* back in time...

    Oh, come on. Iím not THAT old.

    I have a lot of thoughts on this subject but a lot of these things are very systemic at Duke and go beyond student attendance at sporting events.

  20. #20
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    Why is Coach K pissed?

    First home game since he chewed out the student body for no good reason. Some students may still be pissed. I get it.

    It'll get back to normal soon. One game shouldn't be a barometer for the future state of Cameron Crazies.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

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