MBB: Duke 98, UNC 96 (OT) Post-Game Thread

[jv001]

There are many great people who root for UNC, and we have some excellent posters on here that do the same.

I dislike the program, not the fans.

On the other hand there are 4 to 1 cheat fans that think they did nothing wrong. I really dislike the program and dislike 80% of their fans. I've had to listen to the bragging, making excuses, calling Coach K vulgar names and such ever since Coach K came to Duke. But I guess the cheat fans could say something similar about some Duke fans. However, they can't say the same thing about our program.

GoDuke!

[camion]

On the other hand there are 4 to 1 cheat fans that think they did nothing wrong. I really dislike the program and dislike 80% of their fans. I've had to listen to the bragging, making excuses, calling Coach K vulgar names and such ever since Coach K came to Duke. But I guess the cheat fans could say something similar about some Duke fans. However, they can't say the same thing about our program.

GoDuke!

Not exactly.
The thing they say is that Duke has easy classes just like UNC.

That and Duke must be paying players to come. Otherwise there’s no reason to pick Duke.
That’s two things.

And Duke gets all the calls.
Three things.


Among the things they say are...

I’ll come again.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

On the other hand there are 4 to 1 cheat fans that think they did nothing wrong. I really dislike the program and dislike 80% of their fans. I've had to listen to the bragging, making excuses, calling Coach K vulgar names and such ever since Coach K came to Duke. But I guess the cheat fans could say something similar about some Duke fans. However, they can't say the same thing about our program.

GoDuke!

Their fans are the main reason I dislike the program. I grew up with some very honorable NC fans in my family, extended family. The fans the last 30 years are totally different. Of course, the cheat revelations have changed things too.

I got to know the late Danny Lotz in Raleigh. He was a lot older than I...but I was fortunate to know him. He was the center on the 1957 NC team that won the natty against Wilt and Kansas. He may be the nicest man I've ever known (God rest his soul)... I don't know ANY cheat fans like that now, and haven't, for many years.

[devildeac]

Their fans are the main reason I dislike the program. I grew up with some very honorable NC fans in my family, extended family. The fans the last 30 years are totally different. Of course, the cheat revelations have changed things too.

I got to know the late Danny Lotz in Raleigh. He was a lot older than I...but I was fortunate to know him. He was the center on the 1957 NC team that won the natty against Wilt and Kansas. He may be the nicest man I've ever known (God rest his soul)... I don't know ANY cheat fans like that now, and haven't, for many years.

I'll PM you a story about him later today.

[75Crazie]

There are many great people who root for UNC, and we have some excellent posters on here that do the same.

I dislike the program, not the fans.

The fans and their smug, condescending attitude and "Carolina Way" mantra is what fostered my hatred of that cesspool "university". The program, as corrupt as it was and still is, just tries to cater to the fantastic demands of that fan set.

[arnie]

Their fans are the main reason I dislike the program. I grew up with some very honorable NC fans in my family, extended family. The fans the last 30 years are totally different. Of course, the cheat revelations have changed things too.

I got to know the late Danny Lotz in Raleigh. He was a lot older than I...but I was fortunate to know him. He was the center on the 1957 NC team that won the natty against Wilt and Kansas. He may be the nicest man I've ever known (God rest his soul)... I don't know ANY cheat fans like that now, and haven't, for many years.

Bingo for me. As we’ve discussed before; their local arrogance continues to amaze and bluntly, I don’t dare announce to anyone where I went to school; only respond when asked. And Cheat fans don’t ask because they don’t care. There a few exceptions, but not many.

They particularly resent Duke b-ball success since they are the flagship.

[Music man55]

Their fans are the main reason I dislike the program. I grew up with some very honorable NC fans in my family, extended family. The fans the last 30 years are totally different. Of course, the cheat revelations have changed things too.

I got to know the late Danny Lotz in Raleigh. He was a lot older than I...but I was fortunate to know him. He was the center on the 1957 NC team that won the natty against Wilt and Kansas. He may be the nicest man I've ever known (God rest his soul)... I don't know ANY cheat fans like that now, and haven't, for many years.

Like a lot of posters here, I too used to work with a lot of cheat fans before I finally retired. Many of them I would banter back and forth in a good nature kind of ribbing and laughing about it at the same time. There were a few you couldn't do that with, they were too high and mighty and acted as if Duke were some kind of plague. Those folks I would just give it back to as hard and nasty as they would give it. Actually, the worst ones were in the era around from 1986 through 2001 for me. Like some other posters said, some of the cheat fans are actually pretty nice,but of course,not all of them are.

[BD80]

There are many great people who root for UNC, and we have some excellent posters on here that do the same.

I dislike the program, not the fans.

You're saying that you don't dislike Bilas when he is calling a Duke/unc game?

Not even a little?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

They particularly resent Duke b-ball success since they are the flagship.

Actually, the worst ones were in the era around from 1986 through 2001 for me. .

I think both of these comments point to something I've observed over the years, and mentioned on this board a few times. The Duke Carolina rivalry hit a new level of nastiness during the time that K was gaining on Dean, catching Dean, and then surpassing Dean and his program. I would peg it to 84 through 94....but for whatever years you want to designate, it was clearly a case of the Heel fans refusing to believe that little ole Duke could ever pass them by. The Heel fans old enough to remember Bubas and the pre Dean years weren't so much that way, but the generation who grew up with Dean being the big dawg in the conference just couldn't handle it.

I think the severe nastiness started with the Cheat fans, and now, as demonstrated, it goes both ways. (caveat, I understand that in the 60s, when Heyman was around, it was very nasty for a couple of years there - but that's before my time).

[OldPhiKap]

You're saying that you don't dislike Bilas when he is calling a Duke/unc game?

Not even a little?

I am in the minority, but I think Jay does a good job. His constant harping on the correctness of calls gets old but otherwise I have little problem with him.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am in the minority, but I think Jay does a good job. His constant harping on the correctness of calls gets old but otherwise I have little problem with him.

Bilas on the situation with Hurt against FSU and the elbow: "that's a horrible call..."

Bilas on the replay showing the FSU player out of bounds: "that's an odd outcome."

I mean, c'mon...that's nothing short of bizarre....

[BLPOG]

Bilas on the situation with Hurt against FSU and the elbow: "that's a horrible call..."

Bilas on the replay showing the FSU player out of bounds: "that's an odd outcome."

I mean, c'mon...that's nothing short of bizarre...

Would you give it a rest already? The board is aware you don't like Jay Bilas.

[BD80]

I am in the minority, but I think Jay does a good job. His constant harping on the correctness of calls gets old but otherwise I have little problem with him.

I generally agree on Jay. The implicit joke was that he is a carolina fan. It does seem that way in the Duke/carolina games. Didn't mean to dredge up the Bilashaters* …

*TM registration pending.

[jimsumner]

Bilas on the situation with Hurt against FSU and the elbow: "that's a horrible call..."

Bilas on the replay showing the FSU player out of bounds: "that's an odd outcome."

I mean, c'mon...that's nothing short of bizarre...

Bilas went to great lengths to explain why the out-of-bounds call was incorrect.

[sagegrouse]

I think the severe nastiness started with the Cheat fans, and now, as demonstrated, it goes both ways. (caveat, I understand that in the 60s, when Heyman was around, it was very nasty for a couple of years there - but that's before my time).

I have written this before -- in the 1960's the fans got along OK (football was more important by far than hoops), but the players really had problems with each other. Larry Brown-Art Heyman knew each other from Long Island (and there was obviously some bad blood) -- but the other players knew each other only as rivals.

Today the players seem to get along fine, having known each other since age 13 through travel teams, ACC ball, big time prep/HS hoops. Indeed, the best players expect to play together in the NBA or elsewhere. Aren't there summer pick-up games in both Chapel Hill and Durham involving players from both teams? The fans today OTOH border on being totally ridiculous in their attitude and even behavior toward the other teams.

There'sore to be said, but I'll stop now.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have written this before -- in the 1960's the fans got along OK (football was more important by far than hoops), but the players really had problems with each other. Larry Brown-Art Heyman knew each other from Long Island (and there was obviously some bad blood) -- but the other players knew each other only as rivals.

Today the players seem to get along fine, having known each other since age 13 through travel teams, ACC ball, big time prep/HS hoops. Indeed, the best players expect to play together in the NBA or elsewhere. Aren't there summer pick-up games in both Chapel Hill and Durham involving players from both teams? The fans today OTOH border on being totally ridiculous in their attitude and even behavior toward the other teams.

There'sore to be said, but I'll stop now.

One could say polarization is at an all-time high and civility is at an all-time low. This would be reflected in the rivalry as much as anywhere else.

[sagegrouse]

I generally agree on Jay. The implicit joke was that he is a carolina fan. It does seem that way in the Duke/carolina games. Didn't mean to dredge up the Bilashaters* …

*TM registration pending.

I'll slip this in here and maybe it will or it won't be noticed. I thought that Jay was much more relaxed in broadcasting the FSU-Duke game than the UNC-Duke game. I think Sean McDonough does a better job of "handling Jay" than Dan Shulkin. McDonough even has commentary of his own and comes across as intelligent and calm and, I thought, has had an effect. I also expect that Jay got some feedback on his commentary on the UNC game and maybe even a couple of earlier games where he sounded more like a litigator than an announcer.

BTW, one reason I like Bill Raftery is that he treats basketball as a game where everyone should be having fun. That was my main gripe against Billy Packer -- his negativity, not his bias. I like Jay and am proud of him, but he could back off the intensity several degrees and be more effective.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I have written this before -- in the 1960's the fans got along OK (football was more important by far than hoops), but the players really had problems with each other. Larry Brown-Art Heyman knew each other from Long Island (and there was obviously some bad blood) -- but the other players knew each other only as rivals.

Today the players seem to get along fine, having known each other since age 13 through travel teams, ACC ball, big time prep/HS hoops. Indeed, the best players expect to play together in the NBA or elsewhere. Aren't there summer pick-up games in both Chapel Hill and Durham involving players from both teams? The fans today OTOH border on being totally ridiculous in their attitude and even behavior toward the other teams.

There'sore to be said, but I'll stop now.

This observation sounds just about right to me....

[jv001]

I'll slip this in here and maybe it will or it won't be noticed. I thought that Jay was much more relaxed in broadcasting the FSU-Duke game than the UNC-Duke game. I think Sean McDonough does a better job of "handling Jay" than Dan Shulkin. McDonough even has commentary of his own and comes across as intelligent and calm and, I thought, has had an effect. I also expect that Jay got some feedback on his commentary on the UNC game and maybe even a couple of earlier games where he sounded more like a litigator than an announcer.

BTW, one reason I like Bill Raftery is that he treats basketball as a game where everyone should be having fun. That was my main gripe against Billy Packer -- his negativity, not his bias. I like Jay and am proud of him, but he could back off the intensity several degrees and be more effective.

Raftery is my favorite but I don't get to hear him much. Others I like are G-Man and Bonner. One other former announcer that I liked played for the enemy. That was Brad Daugherty. I think he's co-owner of a NASCAR racing team now and at one time announced some of the races.

GoDuke!

[JayZee]

I have written this before -- in the 1960's the fans got along OK (football was more important by far than hoops), but the players really had problems with each other. Larry Brown-Art Heyman knew each other from Long Island (and there was obviously some bad blood) -- but the other players knew each other only as rivals.

Today the players seem to get along fine, having known each other since age 13 through travel teams, ACC ball, big time prep/HS hoops. Indeed, the best players expect to play together in the NBA or elsewhere. Aren't there summer pick-up games in both Chapel Hill and Durham involving players from both teams? The fans today OTOH border on being totally ridiculous in their attitude and even behavior toward the other teams.

There'sore to be said, but I'll stop now.

Well said. Frankly part of what made the rivalry great was a sense of mutual respect. Doherty and then the scandal really put a dent into that. Ironically, at the same time, the individual players now seem to generate somewhat less disdain - absent a McCants here or a Tyler H there...