PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[budwom]

I'm actually pretty shocked that states like TN or SC at 34% and 37% vaccinated are near the bottom of cases right now at 1 or 2 per 100,000. I don't see clear correlation AT THE MOMENT between vaccinated % and case counts but surely agree with you that those states SHOULD be more susceptible to a surge later when it comes if the vaccine percentages stay stagnant. Maybe it's also because in states where vaccinations are low, testing is low. But you'd see it in the hospitalizations/death counts at least I'd imagine.

I'm guessing that warmer weather has a lot to do with it, but our resident experts are better qualified to comment.

[YmoBeThere]

Not that anyone needed a reminder…
A COVID-19 outbreak at a Florida county building killed 2 IT staffers and hospitalized 3 others

Connor Perrett
Sat, June 19, 2021, 12:29 PM

• Two staff members in a Florida county's IT department died of COVID-19 this week, the Bradenton Herald reported.
• Three others in the department tested positive for COVID-19 and were hospitalized.
• A sixth person in contact with those who were infected was vaccinated and did not contract the disease.

https://www.insider.com/manatee-coun...utbreak-2021-6

In the original article at Bradenton.com was this nugget: “On Friday, however, one commissioner who hadn’t been interested in the vaccine left Hopes’ office and immediately went to get vaccinated, according to Hopes.”
Read more here: https://www.bradenton.com/news/coron...#storylink=cpy

[Lord Ash]

I am merely relaying the views of behavioral health professionals from the organizations I work with.

But if you’re asking me my opinion as to which was a bigger factor between 1) obsessing over the national death count and other pandemic theater or 2) the impact to their own lives resulting from the irregular school experience, it’s the latter in a landslide.

Is it really so hard to concede that maybe, just maybe, your district went overboard in terms of its response?

Uh, I DEFINITELY disagree that irregular school had a bigger impact than how many would have died if we HADNT had national-wide school shutdowns at the height of a global pandemic. I can’t even imagine thinking that is the case. The vast majority of kids I have day to day interactions with dont appear too likely to have long term, serious mental issues associated with virtual school for four or five months, although obviously that’s a VERY small sample size.

At no point did I say much about my own district. We weren’t particularly cautious or overly aggressive, given that at one point NJ had the highest per capita death rate in the entire world at 1:400. We didn’t have in person school at the end of last year, and went back in person in cohorts in October, so...? I like to think we did the best we could. I mean, I know we had many people in town get sick, many teachers get sick, many people lose loved ones... one teacher I work with (actually the President of our union) had both her father and mother die from covid within a few months of each other. A 35 year old teacher with no apparent underlying issues here in my home town died. Our hospitals were overrun... Our Board was fairly cautious, although there was a vocal parent group who were convinced it was all a hoax...

... and yet we were in person in small rooms with 15 people for five and a half hours a day eight months before some businesses in modern buildings with modern HVAC systems that service ADULTS even had people come back to work... hell, many of them STILL don’t have them back. And these are people making ten times what I make every year.

I suspect there are several issues with your approach.

One, you don’t seem to be recognizing the issues some students are facing that have nothing to do with their school or their teachers. Poverty, abuse, mental illness... a BEVY of issues that have nothing to do with school and teachers, except that in our bizarre day and age communities unfairly turn to schools to be a CURE for these issues. Some people get angry at schools shutting down because there were increases in domestic abuse or hunger or whatever, blaming teachers for issues that not really issues teachers have any real control over. My guess is that you take that approach.

Second, I don’t think you really have any idea what a school is like. I remember reading the HVAC recommendations that were circulated at the start of the pandemic and being floored. Merv 13 filters? Seriously? We have HVAC from the 50s that doesn’t work and twenty year old window air conditioners with filthy filters. Tell children to stay distanced? Really? I have one student I nicknamed “Backpack” bc she was literally hanging on other kids. Masks? Supply your own, teach. You sound like you might be someone who analyzes from a distance and for a profit, without necessarily having real world experience.

Third, you don’t seem to realize how many school districts make decisions. We don’t all have big fancy companies doing our analysis. We don’t have much in the way of funding. Our Pandemic Response Team was made up of some teachers, some administrators, some parents... our primary health care professionals were our school nurses, for gods sake. As I’ve said before, we all did the best we could as we were bombarded by uncertain or changing guidelines and a complete lack of funding and parents who ranged from “it’s all a hoax” to “I STILL haven’t sent my kids in for in person instruction” and, you know... a terrifying deadly global pandemic that we were trying to keep everyone safe during. I can say this: our union didn’t play much of a role in decision making, outside of fighting to allow teachers to teach virtually if they were out while their students were in person, as opposed to having a sub take over in person instruction (and yes, that was LITERALLY the biggest Union/admin fight... to LET SICK TEACHERS TEACH.)

Anyway, there are a half dozen other points but I am exhausted and this convo isn’t going anywhere. You said that teachers unions inflicted horrible and unnecessary mental trauma on our kids for literally the entire pandemic. I think that would be laughable, if it wasn’t so insulting. We can leave it at that.

[MChambers]

Come next Fall and Winter, I suspect a lot of these folks will get a second shot (so to speak) at contracting Covid...can't see how minimally vaccinated states will escape this fate.

Keeps coming back to the two ways, mathematically speaking, to increase the vaccination rate.

[Lord Ash]

Sorry, I should mention, to be clear: I am SURE we made mistakes, and we will continue to make them. At one point very early on I brought up whether or not it would be possible to bring in an outside health consultant with some expertise in the field of virology/airborne pathogens/whatever, because I was REALLY uncomfortable with *us* making decisions... I was largely laughed at and told that the best we would get would be our county health supervisor. At points I was messaging people HERE, because that was the most "expert advice" I could find.

[Lord Ash]

On another note... I've never been so glad to have a school year ending. I am so absolutely and completely drained, its hard to put into words. I never really spoke with my wife about what was going on at work this year, because it was just impossible to convey what it was like. I had never considered leaving teaching before... this year, I came awfully close to going back to the private sector. I've never, EVER "counted down" to the end of the school year... I get too sad, thinking about losing my kids. This year, I'm counting the HOURS.

That said, I am so glad that our kids are back, though, and getting SOME sort of real, end of year experience, like an (outside) graduation... last years group didnt get that, and it was heartbreaking for all of us. I'm just hoping we can avoid cases for the next three days so we dont face any potential shut downs for the last week.

So, so tired.

[mpj96]

It's not their vaccine choice that I dispute, it's the misinformation. If someone says to me they aren't getting vaccinated and they will never get vaccinated and there is nothing I can say to change their mind. I won't engage. If they tell me that vaccines cause infertility, I'll engage. Or that they got a flu shot but still got the flu. That's the one where I always respond with, yeah, but you aren't dead and that's the point of getting the flu shot.

As for live and let live, c'mon. Think about what you just said. Live and let live? Let live? People who refuse to get vaccinated aren't choosing to let other people live. They are choosing to be potential spreaders of a deadly disease. That's not live and let live. Do we have a responsibility to our fellow humans or not? I would hope it is obvious that my answer to that question is yes. It is because I feel this responsibility that I engage.

For the record, I don't find that telling people who feel passionately about something to live and live is particularly effective. You mileage may vary.

Wow, your comfort level with being publicly condescending is impressive. It does not, however, inspire much confidence in your powers of persuasion or the effectiveness of these pearls you dispense.

At some point when two people are not going to agree it is best to end the conversation. Have a good day.

[MChambers]

I don't find that telling people that I know more than they do is particularly effective. Your mileage may vary. At this point if they want to take the risk they have had their chance at protection and any attempt at conversation on the topic us not rational it is faith- based. Everyone knows that vaccines are safer, but some folks don't care because they are determined not to " be scared" or whatever the rationale may be. I am fully vaccinated and so are all members of my immediate family. As for the rest, live and let live. They can get it or refuse as they like. The choice and responsibility for that choice is theirs. Time to get back to living as normal.

I got this response today, from someone online:

"Hardly worth saying to extend this off-topic discussion, but in 300 years of history (I traced it back to 1717), vaccinations have never worked for anything. The matrix of perceived reality is far, far deeper than most people can even imagine. Most people are in so deep they'll never get out. I've met only a few who are partially out. It's good to read at least a post or two that disagree with the mainstream storyline. Best of luck to us all. "

[Deslok]

I got this response today, from someone online:

"Hardly worth saying to extend this off-topic discussion, but in 300 years of history (I traced it back to 1717), vaccinations have never worked for anything. The matrix of perceived reality is far, far deeper than most people can even imagine. Most people are in so deep they'll never get out. I've met only a few who are partially out. It's good to read at least a post or two that disagree with the mainstream storyline. Best of luck to us all. "

Sort of reminds me of a question often posed, "if you could live at any time, when would you live?"

And I have an easy answer, now, any other time I'd be dead but thanks to modern medicine I still going at almost 50. A hundred years ago I wouldn't have made 18. An that doesn't even get into the things I haven't had to worry about thanks to vaccines

[cspan37421]

I'm actually pretty shocked that states like TN or SC at 34% and 37% vaccinated are near the bottom of cases right now at 1 or 2 per 100,000. I don't see clear correlation AT THE MOMENT between vaccinated % and case counts but surely agree with you that those states SHOULD be more susceptible to a surge later when it comes if the vaccine percentages stay stagnant. Maybe it's also because in states where vaccinations are low, testing is low. But you'd see it in the hospitalizations/death counts at least I'd imagine.

I don't think TN is really testing anymore, so don't be shocked.

Oh, if you show the symptoms and need medical help you might get tested. But our county shut down their test sites awhile ago, to focus solely on vaccination.

We manage to snag a 25-test kit (which our county got through some grant), but we don't have to report anything.

[rsvman]

I got this response today, from someone online:

"Hardly worth saying to extend this off-topic discussion, but in 300 years of history (I traced it back to 1717), vaccinations have never worked for anything. The matrix of perceived reality is far, far deeper than most people can even imagine. Most people are in so deep they'll never get out. I've met only a few who are partially out. It's good to read at least a post or two that disagree with the mainstream storyline. Best of luck to us all. "

Bwa-ha-ha! I have no emojis that adequately express my amusement/amazement at this level of idiocy.

[budwom]

there was a recent article (don't ask me where) outlining how life expectancy has grown over the last 100 years, and vaccinations seem to be at the top of the list for why this is happening...along with clean drinking water, proper sewage, etc..

[MChambers]

there was a recent article (don't ask me where) outlining how life expectancy has grown over the last 100 years, and vaccinations seem to be at the top of the list for why this is happening...along with clean drinking water, proper sewage, etc..

Somehow, I think that if I post a link to that article, I won't cause this skeptic to budge one inch. I don't think there's anything I can write that will help him (and those within six feet of him).

[budwom]

Somehow, I think that if I post a link to that article, I won't cause this skeptic to budge one inch. I don't think there's anything I can write that will help him (and those within six feet of him).

no doubt this is true, believe dig in, don't they?

[MChambers]

Bwa-ha-ha! I have no emojis that adequately express my amusement/amazement at this level of idiocy.

I'm amazed, but not amused. That there are people who believe stuff like this guy. . . Really makes me worry about our future.

I wish there was something I could write that would help him move off the ledge, but I don't think there is.

[YmoBeThere]

no doubt this is true, believe dig in, don't they?

Warning: some language at the beginning...

[Deslok]

Proof of evolution in action: every time we make something idiot-proof, nature invents a better idiot

[bundabergdevil]

Warning: some language at the beginning...

Clutch pull.

[camion]

Somehow, I think that if I post a link to that article, I won't cause this skeptic to budge one inch. I don't think there's anything I can write that will help him (and those within six feet of him).

I know it won't budge a true believer, but I'd just mention polio and smallpox.

[luvdahops]

On another note... I've never been so glad to have a school year ending. I am so absolutely and completely drained, its hard to put into words. I never really spoke with my wife about what was going on at work this year, because it was just impossible to convey what it was like. I had never considered leaving teaching before... this year, I came awfully close to going back to the private sector. I've never, EVER "counted down" to the end of the school year... I get too sad, thinking about losing my kids. This year, I'm counting the HOURS.

That said, I am so glad that our kids are back, though, and getting SOME sort of real, end of year experience, like an (outside) graduation... last years group didnt get that, and it was heartbreaking for all of us. I'm just hoping we can avoid cases for the next three days so we dont face any potential shut downs for the last week.

So, so tired.

I think we’re going to need to agree to disagree and leave it that. You are very firm in your views, and have other posters supporting you. I am very firm in my views, and have other posters supporting me. Few if any minds are being changed.

I have no doubt that the last school year was incredibly challenging and exhausting for you. I hope the coming year will be the most satisfying you’ve had. And for whatever differences we have in perspective, I absolutely respect your passion for teaching.