PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[rsvman]

What I don’t get is that if you are telling people to reject the assessment of professionals and experts, isn’t touting your expert credentials counter intuitive? Don’t listen to any doctors; trust me, I’m a doctor.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Doctors who get academic appointments generally earn promotions over time. Assistant Professor is the first title you get when you start your real job after your training. Most people are only assistant professors for six to eight years before they are promoted to Associate Professor. If they are good and do their job properly, and do all the other things that are expected of them, they can then be promoted to Professor in another 8-10 years. Promotions are not easy, and do not come naturally just because of time. They are earned.

But to tout the fact that you worked in the same job for 25 years and never earned a single promotion suggests that you didn't try at all to do the academic parts of the job. So maybe not the best credentials for asking others to trust your academic opinion. That's all I'm saying. It's a subtle point that she knew most people wouldn't even think of, which is why she had no qualms about tossing it out there like that. The interesting thing is that she could just as easily have said that she worked as an ob-gyn for 25 years and to the lay person it would have had just as much clout. But she felt compelled to give us her academic title, which I assume she thought would make her sound more trustworthy. Ironically, to people actually familiar with academia, the mention of it actually reduced her credibility.

That's all I was trying to say. Sorry for the confusion.


The flip side of thqt coin is that sometimes I'll hear a 50-year-old,when asked what his daughter is doing, say that she's a professor of English at Wellesley, or wherever. No, she's not. It's imppssible. Unless you had her when you were ten. I realize that they don't know what the word means, and I never correct them. So, in that sense, kudos to the idiot lady who thinks vaccinees' farts are dangerous: at least she didn't overstate her credentials or claim an academic honor she hadn't actually earned.

[budwom]

^ yes, don't rely on the sixty year old junior accountant.

[mkirsh]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Doctors who get academic appointments generally earn promotions over time. Assistant Professor is the first title you get when you start your real job after your training. Most people are only assistant professors for six to eight years before they are promoted to Associate Professor. If they are good and do their job properly, and do all the other things that are expected of them, they can then be promoted to Professor in another 8-10 years. Promotions are not easy, and do not come naturally just because of time. They are earned.

But to tout the fact that you worked in the same job for 25 years and never earned a single promotion suggests that you didn't try at all to do the academic parts of the job. So maybe not the best credentials for asking others to trust your academic opinion. That's all I'm saying. It's a subtle point that she knew most people wouldn't even think of, which is why she had no qualms about tossing it out there like that. The interesting thing is that she could just as easily have said that she worked as an ob-gyn for 25 years and to the lay person it would have had just as much clout. But she felt compelled to give us her academic title, which I assume she thought would make her sound more trustworthy. Ironically, to people actually familiar with academia, the mention of it actually reduced her credibility.

That's all I was trying to say. Sorry for the confusion.


The flip side of thqt coin is that sometimes I'll hear a 50-year-old,when asked what his daughter is doing, say that she's a professor of English at Wellesley, or wherever. No, she's not. It's imppssible. Unless you had her when you were ten. I realize that they don't know what the word means, and I never correct them. So, in that sense, kudos to the idiot lady who thinks vaccinees' farts are dangerous: at least she didn't overstate her credentials or claim an academic honor she hadn't actually earned.

I understood your point but was just adding on. I was trying to point out that her target audience rejects experts and academics as fraudulent elitists, so I don’t know why she was claiming to be one to improve her credibility. If you are rejecting the establishment, using establishment based credentials to validate yourself is circular logic.

[budwom]

elbow bumps are really, really stupid...

[dudog84]

I understood your point but was just adding on. I was trying to point out that her target audience rejects experts and academics as fraudulent elitists, so I don’t know why she was claiming to be one to improve her credibility. If you are rejecting the establishment, using establishment based credentials to validate yourself is circular logic.

See, there you go, trying to apply logic.

[snowdenscold]

Respectfully disagree. I’m not sure how one could read Augustine and Aquinas, among others, and reach that conclusion.

FWIW, it’s a little irritating for a conversation to go from a story of a single anti-vaxer who doesn’t represent a majority of Christians, let alone all religious people, to a generalized statement about the incompatibility of all religious belief with logic and reason.

Thank you, and while I agree, I'm also bewildered, befuddled and bemused at the sheer number of Christians (often white Evangelicals - of which I am one - though see below) who are anti-vaccine at this point, and the overlap there's also been over the past year+ with anti-mask tendencies as well.

My wife and I personally know wayyyy to many people who range from outright denial (and who frequently post publically in this regard) of everything COVID to vaccine resistant/hesitant, because they 'heard from somebody' or 'read something online' etc. (and if you press further, it's usually from one of the common, discredited anti-vaxx sources).

It infuriates us to no end, because we see no theological justification for this position, and seems more tied to political affinity (e.g., if the liberals are for it, they must be against it). Either that, and/or (and I'm completely speculating here) wanting to exert some sense of control over the situation, and these vaccine stands are some way to reassert that control (a common human tendency in many contexts beyond this one). But yeah, there's no real logical dividing line on why they (presumably) trust modern medicine in almost all other facets, but this is where they take their stand.

I already was pretty wary of self-identifying by the term Evangelical as of 5-10 years ago (given how it had changed over the past 20-30 years), but between Trump and now COVID and vaccines, it's now something that outright embarrasses us, which is really ultimately very sad.


So while I agree with pushing back on any sort of false dichotomies of faith/reason, etc., it sure seems like we've shot ourselves in the foot lately, if not the upper leg.

[rsvman]

I understood your point but was just adding on. I was trying to point out that her target audience rejects experts and academics as fraudulent elitists, so I don’t know why she was claiming to be one to improve her credibility. If you are rejecting the establishment, using establishment based credentials to validate yourself is circular logic.

Got it. Thanks. Sorry for being dense.

[cato]

Thank you, and while I agree, I'm also bewildered, befuddled and bemused at the sheer number of Christians (often white Evangelicals - of which I am one - though see below) who are anti-vaccine at this point, and the overlap there's also been over the past year+ with anti-mask tendencies as well.

My wife and I personally know wayyyy to many people who range from outright denial (and who frequently post publically in this regard) of everything COVID to vaccine resistant/hesitant, because they 'heard from somebody' or 'read something online' etc. (and if you press further, it's usually from one of the common, discredited anti-vaxx sources).

It infuriates us to no end, because we see no theological justification for this position, and seems more tied to political affinity (e.g., if the liberals are for it, they must be against it). Either that, and/or (and I'm completely speculating here) wanting to exert some sense of control over the situation, and these vaccine stands are some way to reassert that control (a common human tendency in many contexts beyond this one). But yeah, there's no real logical dividing line on why they (presumably) trust modern medicine in almost all other facets, but this is where they take their stand.

I already was pretty wary of self-identifying by the term Evangelical as of 5-10 years ago (given how it had changed over the past 20-30 years), but between Trump and now COVID and vaccines, it's now something that outright embarrasses us, which is really ultimately very sad.


So while I agree with pushing back on any sort of false dichotomies of faith/reason, etc., it sure seems like we've shot ourselves in the foot lately, if not the upper leg.

Thanks for sharing. It can’t be easy to navigate this. Good for you for doing it.

[johnb]

I asked a cluster of my evangelical relatives whether they’d get the vaccine. The basic answer: “honey, we were first in line. Think we’re stupid?”

When I asked my evangelical cousin from the other side of the family that same question, she looked at me like I was crazy. “We’ve been watching the news about this for a long time, and this vaccine business is dangerous in all sorts of ways.” They only turn on Fox occasionally, since Fox is way too mainstream.

It’s complicated.

[wavedukefan70s]

According to musc we are ckose to 65 % vaccinated or have had Covid-19 in S.C. .if we could gain 10 or more % plus a booster for variants .we may not be in bad shape in a few months.

[YmoBeThere]

I understood your point but was just adding on. I was trying to point out that her target audience rejects experts and academics as fraudulent elitists, so I don’t know why she was claiming to be one to improve her credibility. If you are rejecting the establishment, using establishment based credentials to validate yourself is circular logic.

I think it was actually more of an "I've hung out with these folks a long time and they are full of it" approach.

[cspan37421]

According to musc we are ckose to 65 % vaccinated or have had Covid-19 in S.C. .if we could gain 10 or more % plus a booster for variants .we may not be in bad shape in a few months.

Is that statewide or just in the Charleston area? I'm looking for your source and finding 62% in the Charleston area, comprised of 41% with at least 1 dose and 21% "natural" immunity (presumably from infection?).

https://web.musc.edu/coronavirus-upd...iology-project

From all I hear and read, I doubt rural areas are as highly vaccinated as cities. Indeed, CDC figure for SC statewide is just under 28% fully vaccinated (36.7% with at least 1 dose).

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-in-your-state

So I'm not sure I'm so sanguine. But hey, you're doing better than my (Volunteer) state.

[YmoBeThere]

Grocery store Friday, 100% masked. Costco yesterday, same thing. Bagel shop this morning, same thing.

A bit baffled we are seeing as many cases now as last summer.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Is that statewide or just in the Charleston area? I'm looking for your source and finding 62% in the Charleston area, comprised of 41% with at least 1 dose and 21% "natural" immunity (presumably from infection?).

https://web.musc.edu/coronavirus-upd...iology-project

From all I hear and read, I doubt rural areas are as highly vaccinated as cities. Indeed, CDC figure for SC statewide is just under 28% fully vaccinated (36.7% with at least 1 dose).

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-in-your-state

So I'm not sure I'm so sanguine. But hey, you're doing better than my (Volunteer) state.

21% of people in Charleston contracted the virus???

[aimo]

Hit some yard sales yesterday, after Gov. Cooper lifted outdoor mask mandate Friday at 5pm. So happy to see most people still wearing masks outside in groups.

[Skydog]

Grocery store Friday, 100% masked. Costco yesterday, same thing. Bagel shop this morning, same thing.

A bit baffled we are seeing as many cases now as last summer.

I rushed in and out of a grocery store near closing time a couple nights ago. Vaguely noticed that I was getting some lingering looks and the woman running the self check-out area was a bit snippy. Whatever - maybe just in a hurry to get off work. So went to car, reached for keys and felt this cloth thing in my pocket... oops!...

[cspan37421]

21% of people in Charleston contracted the virus???

That's what they're saying, it appears:

*Estimated Percentage of Population with Immunity– This is the percentage of the number of people who currently have either Natural (through infection with Covid-19) or Vaccine (they have received either one or both doses) Immunity in Charleston county. This metric is an estimate and will be updated weekly. This data is reported by DHEC and is available at: https://scdhec.gov/covid19/covid-19-...tion-dashboard

[Kdogg]

Is that statewide or just in the Charleston area? I'm looking for your source and finding 62% in the Charleston area, comprised of 41% with at least 1 dose and 21% "natural" immunity (presumably from infection?).

https://web.musc.edu/coronavirus-upd...iology-project

From all I hear and read, I doubt rural areas are as highly vaccinated as cities. Indeed, CDC figure for SC statewide is just under 28% fully vaccinated (36.7% with at least 1 dose).

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-in-your-state

So I'm not sure I'm so sanguine. But hey, you're doing better than my (Volunteer) state.

CDC numbers are a few days off. SCDHEC as it as 32% percent as fully vaccinated and 42% partially.

[wavedukefan70s]

CDC numbers are a few days off. SCDHEC as it as 32% percent as fully vaccinated and 42% partially.

That was in the paper ill find the link.
They were saying vaccinated and those that have contracted the virus.not stand alone vaccinated. That would be 20% or so.

With COVID-19 infections, 65% in SC may be immune, MUSC research says

https://www.postandcourier.com/healt...c66c251ef.html

Heres link.

[wavedukefan70s]

CDC numbers are a few days off. SCDHEC as it as 32% percent as fully vaccinated and 42% partially.

Its a news paper so its a 50 50 proposition for truthfulness.
But im trying to stay positive.