PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[howardlander]

No, he is actually very active in his Bible study group. I believe this has influenced his and his parents decision to not get vaccinated. Or, I should say, is an integral part of their decision.

This I will never understand. Why would a deity that endowed us with an intelligent and curious mind not want us to use the fruits of that mind? Do they also refuse antibiotics? How about casting of broken bones?

[budwom]

This I will never understand. Why would a deity that endowed us with an intelligent and curious mind not want us to use the fruits of that mind? Do they also refuse antibiotics? How about casting of broken bones?

I don't think logic will get you anywhere on this one, howard.

[Bluedog]

It is surreal spending time in Georgia this week after a year plus in Asheville. Two different universes. Apparently down her (very rural Georgia) the governor opened things back up pretty completely in April of 2020. Hardly anyone is wearing a mask and they look at you like you have two heads if you are wearing one. This is three hours from where I live and everyone has been as careful as possible.

Makes it very easy to understand why this damn virus will not being going away any time soon.

Kudos to you for setting an example. Please, tell all those around you to try and do the same or all these precautions, measures, closings, vaccines, are for naught.

My community is the other extreme. If you decide to walk your dog down the street at a random time of day (in a suburban location mind you) and somebody sees you across the street and notice you're not wearing a mask (of course not knowing if you're vaccinated), you sometimes get verbally yelled at how you're a terrible human.

Schools are still not open and they're talking about finally getting tents for the fall to have classes outside but say there's a tent shortage because of restaurants (how many months into this are we?!?). They plan to offer fully remote school still next school year for those who want it, but trying to have some in person. 5 minutes north of me has been in person for months.

I'm certainly not anti-mask, but also find the other extreme frustrating which impacts me more where I live. My two year old will be wearing a mask for a LOOOOONG time (positivity rate below 1% still in my community). I think masks clearly work. But mask shaming in certain situations that are extremely low risk are also unnecessary. It's become a political statement on both sides unfortunately, instead of public health driving it.

[mpj96]

No, he is actually very active in his Bible study group. I believe this has influenced his and his parents decision to not get vaccinated. Or, I should say, is an integral part of their decision.

How novel. Years ago I read the good book cover to cover and I remember a lot of stuff about being generally considerate of your neighbors and forgiving others as you would want to be forgiven but I don't remember anything about vaccines being mentioned. Maybe I should take another look.

Glad to hear the only resulting harm was a bit of extra time with the family.

[Kdogg]

No, he is actually very active in his Bible study group. I believe this has influenced his and his parents decision to not get vaccinated. Or, I should say, is an integral part of their decision.

Won’t the WWJD card supersede any antivax argument?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This I will never understand. Why would a deity that endowed us with an intelligent and curious mind not want us to use the fruits of that mind? Do they also refuse antibiotics? How about casting of broken bones?

Applying logic and reason to religious beliefs is an exercise in frustration - and I say this with no judgment and as a religious studies major in college. Religion sort of planted their flag on the opposite end of the spectrum from logic and reason, for better or for worse.

[mph]

Applying logic and reason to religious beliefs is an exercise in frustration - and I say this with no judgment and as a religious studies major in college. Religion sort of planted their flag on the opposite end of the spectrum from logic and reason, for better or for worse.

Respectfully disagree. I’m not sure how one could read Augustine and Aquinas, among others, and reach that conclusion.

FWIW, it’s a little irritating for a conversation to go from a story of a single anti-vaxer who doesn’t represent a majority of Christians, let alone all religious people, to a generalized statement about the incompatibility of all religious belief with logic and reason.

[howardlander]

Respectfully disagree. I’m not sure how one could read Augustine and Aquinas, among others, and reach that conclusion.

FWIW, it’s a little irritating for a conversation to go from a story of a single anti-vaxer who doesn’t represent a majority of Christians, let alone all religious people, to a generalized statement about the incompatibility of all religious belief with logic and reason.

Agreed. It should be noted that plenty of religious people are getting vaccinated. What amazes me is how some people will use religion (any religion) to justify the most absurd leaps of logic from what the religious texts actually say. I'm not a new testament scholar but I'm pretty sure Jesus would have taken the vaccine. Jesus was an active Jewish Rabbi: I've yet to hear of any Jews refusing the vaccine and in fact Israel is leading the world in vaccinations.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Respectfully disagree. I’m not sure how one could read Augustine and Aquinas, among others, and reach that conclusion.

FWIW, it’s a little irritating for a conversation to go from a story of a single anti-vaxer who doesn’t represent a majority of Christians, let alone all religious people, to a generalized statement about the incompatibility of all religious belief with logic and reason.

I didn't mean to offend in any way. I just meant that the very existence of religion is counter to science and logic. That's part of the interest and appeal - it depends on something that defies explanation. Also, I never said "Christianity" at all - I am including the bigger idea of deism and religion as a whole.

Regardless, the more I explain myself, the more I realize it's probably unfit for DBR discussion. Tying it back to the thread, my intent was the empathize with people who are cynical or skeptical of the boundaries of logic and science, not to belittle them.

[mph]

I didn't mean to offend in any way. I just meant that the very existence of religion is counter to science and logic. That's part of the interest and appeal - it depends on something that defies explanation. Also, I never said "Christianity" at all - I am including the bigger idea of deism and religion as a whole.

Regardless, the more I explain myself, the more I realize it's probably unfit for DBR discussion. Tying it back to the thread, my intent was the empathize with people who are cynical or skeptical of the boundaries of logic and science, not to belittle them.

No worries. I didn’t take offense and my comment wasn’t directed entirely at your post. IMO, the conversation that had developed over several posts took an unwarranted and unproductive turn (unproductive in the context of what we are allowed to discuss on the DBR).

As an aside, I very much disagree with your characterization of religion as something that is meant to “counter science and logic” and “something that defies explanation.” But, as you say, not a conversation we can have on the DBR which is the main reason I found the conversation irritating in the first place.

[Bostondevil]

Many (Most? All?) states allow religious beliefs as a valid reason to be exempted from vaccination, so, it is a somewhat appropriate conversation to have here, but, as others have said, a rather tricky tightrope to walk PPB wise.

The roommate situation brings up something that I see coming (and have mentioned before) - many parents will insist that their vaccinated kids only have roommates who are also vaccinated. Religious exemptions are going to pose problems for many a university.

[Skydog]

...
The roommate situation brings up something that I see coming (and have mentioned before) - many parents will insist that their vaccinated kids only have roommates who are also vaccinated. ...

Except in Florida, where it will be the opposite.

[aimo]

Many (Most? All?) states allow religious beliefs as a valid reason to be exempted from vaccination, so, it is a somewhat appropriate conversation to have here, but, as others have said, a rather tricky tightrope to walk PPB wise.

The roommate situation brings up something that I see coming (and have mentioned before) - many parents will insist that their vaccinated kids only have roommates who are also vaccinated. Religious exemptions are going to pose problems for many a university.

Think they can get away with grouping vaccinateds together and un-vaccinateds together?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Think they can get away with grouping vaccinateds together and un-vaccinateds together?

Sounds ripe for clusters and outbreaks.

[rsvman]

Except in Florida, where it will be the opposite.

Well, you can't be too careful, what with pheromones and farts and all...

[aimo]

Sounds ripe for clusters and outbreaks.

Yes, but if the non-vaccination is by choice . . . Why should the vaccinated be subjected to even a 5% chance of getting sick when they made the choice to be safe? Yes, I know, even the all-vaccinated COULD get sick, but it would be a lower chance than throwing a non-vac with them.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yes, but if the non-vaccination is by choice . . . Why should the vaccinated be subjected to even a 5% chance of getting sick when they made the choice to be safe? Yes, I know, even the all-vaccinated COULD get sick, but it would be a lower chance than throwing a non-vac with them.

Well that sounds like it would encourage people to just get vaccinated. Wait a second...

[camion]

Sounds ripe for clusters and outbreaks.

Natural selection? Or is it unnatural?

[wavedukefan70s]

My community is the other extreme. If you decide to walk your dog down the street at a random time of day (in a suburban location mind you) and somebody sees you across the street and notice you're not wearing a mask (of course not knowing if you're vaccinated), you sometimes get verbally yelled at how you're a terrible human.

Schools are still not open and they're talking about finally getting tents for the fall to have classes outside but say there's a tent shortage because of restaurants (how many months into this are we?!?). They plan to offer fully remote school still next school year for those who want it, but trying to have some in person. 5 minutes north of me has been in person for months.

I'm certainly not anti-mask, but also find the other extreme frustrating which impacts me more where I live. My two year old will be wearing a mask for a LOOOOONG time (positivity rate below 1% still in my community). I think masks clearly work. But mask shaming in certain situations that are extremely low risk are also unnecessary. It's become a political statement on both sides unfortunately, instead of public health driving it.

We dont have to many instances of mask shaming. Must be just a area thing.
I have seen quite a few not wearing masks lately.while i think they should indoors . As long as they dont get up close .im fine

I really have a problem with anyone feeling comfortable enough to verbally abuse me or anyone over a mask.we dont know thier particular situation .or any medical problems they may have .

Im not a anti vaccine person.but i got vaccinated.even though i am skeptical.
I have risks.covid will most likely be a death sentence for me .so vaccination was a no Brainer.



We are full time open in schools.all students are wearing masks.
We need about 2 million more to get vaccinated .

Looking at European countries and multiple foriegn countries.im afraid we have eased up a little to quickly .
According to my counterparts over seas some areas are really having it rough .
India in particular.ireland seems to be easing up.

I would prefer we didnt have that .especially with the variants.
Hopefully this administration will prepurchase boosters just incase.if they havent already . Not starting political stuff.id feel thr same if mr rodgers was in office.

Just as a fyi foriegn crew are not leaving ships unless its a medical emergency.

I tend to get nervous when i have to go up on the bridge and get signed off by a mate or a captain.i have no idea where they have been .

[mkirsh]

My sister-in-law posted a video by a woman who says she went to school at Dartmouth and did her training at Tufts, and was a practicing OB-GYN doc for 25 years, the essence of which was that people who have been vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine are now "biological weapons." According to this woman, pheromones that we are releasing cause disruption of OTHER PEOPLE'S endocrine systems, leading to dysmenorrhea, miscarriages, erectile dysfunction, etc., etc. She even posits that perhaps even our flatus could have negative effects on others.

She claims that once you get vaccinated, you are going to keep making that spike protein, which she refers to as a "synthetic protein" forever and ever. Your body will NEVER stop making the spike protein, she says.

To make sure you know she is to be trusted, at the beginning she lists her schooling, training, and accomplishments, among which was that she was an "assistant professor of OG-GYN for 25 years." Those of you in academics will know that that doesn't sound particularly good. It's like saying that you enlisted in the Army and served as a private for 25 years. Perhaps it is her complete failure to understand protein synthesis and how mRNA works and what RNases are that made it so she couldn't get promoted, lol.

As an aside, all proteins in the body are synthesized in the same way, and thus, are "synthetic proteins." I don't think that word means what she wants you to think it means.

At any rate, this particular video looks like it might be the final straw in my wife's already strained relationship with her sister. My wife has been not responding to anything her sister posts, but she couldn't help but post "So now my farts are disrupting other people's hormones? lol" in response to that video, which resulted in an "F you" response from her sister (who possibly doesn't understand what the word flatus means?), and a de-friending on Facebook from my wife.

For what it's worth, the lady who made all those claims has been declared one of the 12 biggest disseminators of medical disinformation in America, and has been posting similar garbage about other vaccines for a long time. She stated that particular title with a lot of pride.

What I don’t get is that if you are telling people to reject the assessment of professionals and experts, isn’t touting your expert credentials counter intuitive? Don’t listen to any doctors; trust me, I’m a doctor.