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  1. #13701
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Your first paragraph sums up my thinking...it's the overall queuing up involved with air travel that gives me pause (paws) but I robustly share your skepticism about the excellence of air handling on airplanes...all the filters and air flow don't assure me if the guy literally inches away from me is hacking and snorting for a couple hours.

    New thought! Some friends and I have been comparing notes concerning what we'll do when we've been jabbed and waited a couple weeks. We all look forward to visits, parties, all the usual stuff we do (all with jabbed people), but many of us have independently reached the conclusion that we're probably going to dine out less for dinner, unless we're with friends. We'll still eat out a bunch, but over the past year my wife and I have expanded our repertoire of cooking, somewhat mastering a whole new bunch of things...so on a lot of occasions, the calculus will be why dine out and spend $125-150 for something that isn't particularly better than what we can cook at home? We'll still do a lot of lunches with friends (great post retirement option we have found) but almost certainly fewer dinners at restaurants unless they feature something we can't do well at home...
    Not to mention the saved money!


    I learned a few things during the pandemic. One of the things I did was to buy a clipper called Beast Clipper that allows one to very easily cut one's own hair; it is specially designed to make it easy to get the back, which was difficult with my traditional clippers. The thing paid for itself after two home cuts! Now that I am vaccinated and allowed to go back for professional hair cutting, I don't have the desire to do so. I would rather continue saving money, and my results are just as good. (My wife helps out with the top of the head, as I only have clipper attachments that are shorter than I want the top to be. At first she was hesitant and slow, but now she is quite competent and does a really good job.)

    I don't like to travel, so nothing changed for me there. My favorite activity is golf, which I was able to continue doing throughout the pandemic anyway, so nothing much has changed.

    Our church will be meeting together again starting the second Sunday in April (we have been doing Zoom meetings only for a few months now). Since I have been vaccinated, I won't have any qualms about going back to in-person church. That's about the only thing that has changed since i got vaccinated, to be honest. (I have been doing almost all of the grocery shopping, to keep my unvaccinated wife out of harm's way as much as possible. Forgot to mention that.)
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  2. #13702
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    ^ yes, it saves money!..my wife bought an excellent, inexpensive electric meat grinder, so we can now get nice boneless lamb roasts from Costco and grind the lamb ourselves for various recipes...the store bought ground lamb from national suppliers is grotesquely fatty, and the good local stuff can be hard to find, and is very expensive.

    I almost went with the hair clippers, but my wife made a funny face, so I'm holding out for a conventional haircut on April 7...been about nine months since the last one, I've gone past the Boris Johnson look, am now in Donald Sutherland territory..

  3. #13703
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    ^ yes, it saves money!..my wife bought an excellent, inexpensive electric meat grinder, so we can now get nice boneless lamb roasts from Costco and grind the lamb ourselves for various recipes...the store bought ground lamb from national suppliers is grotesquely fatty, and the good local stuff can be hard to find, and is very expensive.

    I almost went with the hair clippers, but my wife made a funny face, so I'm holding out for a conventional haircut on April 7...been about nine months since the last one, I've gone past the Boris Johnson look, am now in Donald Sutherland territory..
    For my KitchenAid brethren, the meat grinder attachment for the stand mixer is wonderful. I haven't bought ground meat of any kind in several years.
    As for haircuts, well, I'm on beyond the shoulder blades now. Starting to feel like a trim is in order relatively soon, and will probably lose maybe three inches sometime in late April, but I'm definitely gonna keep going with the flowing locks for the foreseeable future.

  4. #13704
    While cooking at home certainly saves money and can be just as good quality, for me, going to restaurants is about the "experience." That's what I pay for just as much as the food. And, I do miss that, and plan to go back eventually. Particularly when traveling internationally, I find being immersed in the culture key to that experience, and food is a large part of it. I do also enjoy going to grocery stores in other countries though, and seeing that as well. Similarly, at home, getting together with people in a restaurant or just your significant other cannot be replicated at home even if you are a high quality cook. Going out can just be extra "special" and it's the ambience/event behind it. Of course, there's a balance as well as you can certainly making cooking at home "special," but mixing things up is important in my opinion. Of course, others may have different perspectives, but I sorely miss getting dollar tacos from the authentic Mexican place 10 minutes away from my house as well as the rare fine dining experience for special occasions. You don't go to a Michelin-starred restaurant solely for the food -- in fact, I'd say that less than half of it. Otherwise, those restaurants would be doing okay with their takeout business...(which, by me, they have tried to do.) But yes, as a society we probably eat out too much which costs a lot of money and can be bad for your health. As with everything in life, balance.

  5. #13705
    In February, when my wife and I sat down do to our budget reconciliation from 2020, we realized that our food costs were materially higher than in previous years (both as groceries only and when combined with dining out). It did not take long to realize that the removal my usual habit of having anywhere from 2 - 4 business lunches and 1 - 2 business dinners a week ended up costing our family a fairly significant sum of money. I for one am ready to get back to business of doing business (At least in that respect).
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  6. #13706
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    While cooking at home certainly saves money and can be just as good quality, for me, going to restaurants is about the "experience." That's what I pay for just as much as the food. And, I do miss that, and plan to go back eventually. Particularly when traveling internationally, I find being immersed in the culture key to that experience, and food is a large part of it. I do also enjoy going to grocery stores in other countries though, and seeing that as well. Similarly, at home, getting together with people in a restaurant or just your significant other cannot be replicated at home even if you are a high quality cook. Going out can just be extra "special" and it's the ambience/event behind it. Of course, there's a balance as well as you can certainly making cooking at home "special," but mixing things up is important in my opinion. Of course, others may have different perspectives, but I sorely miss getting dollar tacos from the authentic Mexican place 10 minutes away from my house as well as the rare fine dining experience for special occasions. You don't go to a Michelin-starred restaurant solely for the food -- in fact, I'd say that less than half of it. Otherwise, those restaurants would be doing okay with their takeout business...(which, by me, they have tried to do.) But yes, as a society we probably eat out too much which costs a lot of money and can be bad for your health. As with everything in life, balance.
    I certainly agree about the traveling part (even within the U.S.), cuisine is a major reason why we travel...and of course we'll still eat out here, especially at places that offer especially good food or ambiance, or are located in fun places...just not quite as much as we used to...

  7. #13707
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Yeah, thinking of a similar shindig with the kids on the Gulf coast the end of May.
    Up until 2018 we took a yearly family vacation to the Orlando area and we took one day drove to the St. Pete area. Just to go to the beach. I think the name of that beach is Treasure Island. The water is a beautiful blue and reminds me of beaches on Oahu. I'm hoping to return next year. Hope you have a great time in May.

    GoDuke!

  8. #13708
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Up until 2018 we took a yearly family vacation to the Orlando area and we took one day drove to the St. Pete area. Just to go to the beach. I think the name of that beach is Treasure Island. The water is a beautiful blue and reminds me of beaches on Oahu. I'm hoping to return next year. Hope you have a great time in May.

    GoDuke!
    I go to St Pete Beach every fall (just south of Treasure Island). It is beautiful. Occasionally, we take a day trip to Orlando!

  9. #13709
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Yeah, thinking of a similar shindig with the kids on the Gulf coast the end of May.
    Not to be a buzz kill but this kind of news about variant cases beginning to surge in FL would give me pause.

    https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...s-to-2-3k.html

    Why donít some leaders get it? Did they not learn the first time around?
    ďCoach said no 3s.Ē - Zion on The Block

  10. #13710
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Encouraging news on Pfizer and Moderna: 90 reduction in infection, not just symptomatic covid.

    In a study of about 4,000 health-care personnel, police, firefighters and other essential workers, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the vaccines reduced the risk of infection by 80 percent after one shot. Protection increased to 90 percent following the second dose. The findings are consistent with clinical trial results and studies showing strong effectiveness in Israel and the United Kingdom, and in initial studies of health-care workers at the UT Southwestern Medical Center and in Southern California.
    -jk

  11. #13711
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Encouraging news on Pfizer and Moderna: 90 reduction in infection, not just symptomatic covid.



    -jk
    Encouraging, but 90 isnít 100.

    The university my wife works at does their own covid testing. They found 2 fully immunized employees that were covid positive. One of which had a high viral load and was presumably contagious.

    Iím hopeful we are in the final stretch, but I am saddened at the thought that we are going to lose thousands more because restrictions are being loosened too much too fast.

  12. #13712
    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    Encouraging, but 90 isnít 100.
    As long as we're preventing hospitalizations and death in nearly every vaccinated case, we can get past this thing and move on to normal life. Preventing 100% of COVID positive cases isn't going to happen and shouldn't be the goal because it's unrealistic. The vaccine has been far more effective than anyone thought it would and turning COVID into the flu or a cold would be a major win. And the more vaccinated people we get, the less likely it is to spread.

    Agree with the rest of your post.

  13. #13713
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY

    Post

    All the vaccine testing has, thus far, been done in a world of masks and distancing. Any thoughts on vaccine efficacy when things return to some approximation of normal? Have they released data on subsets of participants based on the relative safety of the participant?

    Similarly, if flu vaccine efficacy fluctuates around 40%, will this year’s flu vaccine efficacy be artificially high because of covid precautions?

  14. #13714
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    All the vaccine testing has, thus far, been done in a world of masks and distancing. Any thoughts on vaccine efficacy when things return to some approximation of normal? Have they released data on subsets of participants based on the relative safety of the participant?

    Similarly, if flu vaccine efficacy fluctuates around 40%, will this yearís flu vaccine efficacy be artificially high because of covid precautions?
    In the case of the flu, the 40% ďefficacyĒ meant prevention of ER visits and hospitalizations.

  15. #13715
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    All the vaccine testing has, thus far, been done in a world of masks and distancing. Any thoughts on vaccine efficacy when things return to some approximation of normal? Have they released data on subsets of participants based on the relative safety of the participant?

    Similarly, if flu vaccine efficacy fluctuates around 40%, will this yearís flu vaccine efficacy be artificially high because of covid precautions?
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think the lack of masks and distancing would impact the effectiveness percentages because it's essentially a ratio. Both the vaccinated and non-vaccinated group theoretically had similar behaviors so even if the vaccinated group produced fewer cases than would have occurred without masks, the non-vaccinated group would as well. Essentially both the numerator and denominator got decreased.

    In a "normal world", the raw case count would increase under both conditions but the ratio would theoretically remain the same. At least, that's how I understand it...so if say 5 cases were found among the vaccinated and 90 among placebo, if nobody had been wearing masks or practicing social distancing and community spread was the same as it was, you might have gotten 15 cases among the vaccinated and 270 among the placebo group if taken over the same timeframe, the same effectiveness percentage. (I made up those numbers). But the trials actually just go until a certain threshold is reached so it would have just concluded earlier.

    Said another way, if 10,000,000 people get infected a 75% effectiveness would still produce a large number of vaccinated people who actually get it while of course if only 10,000 total people get it that number is greatly reduced. But the effectiveness of the vaccine didn't change. Just external factors.

  16. #13716
    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    Encouraging, but 90 isnít 100.

    The university my wife works at does their own covid testing. They found 2 fully immunized employees that were covid positive. One of which had a high viral load and was presumably contagious.

    Iím hopeful we are in the final stretch, but I am saddened at the thought that we are going to lose thousands more because restrictions are being loosened too much too fast.
    Hence the need to continue social distancing and masks. But, if the death rate drops to zero and hospitalization rate drops to near zero for vaccinated people - that seems an obvious win to me.

  17. #13717
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    All the vaccine testing has, thus far, been done in a world of masks and distancing. Any thoughts on vaccine efficacy when things return to some approximation of normal? Have they released data on subsets of participants based on the relative safety of the participant?

    Similarly, if flu vaccine efficacy fluctuates around 40%, will this yearís flu vaccine efficacy be artificially high because of covid precautions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think the lack of masks and distancing would impact the effectiveness percentages because it's essentially a ratio. Both the vaccinated and non-vaccinated group theoretically had similar behaviors so even if the vaccinated group produced fewer cases than would have occurred without masks, the non-vaccinated group would as well. Essentially both the numerator and denominator got decreased.

    In a "normal world", the raw case count would increase under both conditions but the ratio would theoretically remain the same. At least, that's how I understand it...so if say 5 cases were found among the vaccinated and 90 among placebo, if nobody had been wearing masks or practicing social distancing and community spread was the same as it was, you might have gotten 15 cases among the vaccinated and 270 among the placebo group if taken over the same timeframe, the same effectiveness percentage. (I made up those numbers). But the trials actually just go until a certain threshold is reached so it would have just concluded earlier.

    Said another way, if 10,000,000 people get infected a 75% effectiveness would still produce a large number of vaccinated people who actually get it while of course if only 10,000 total people get it that number is greatly reduced. But the effectiveness of the vaccine didn't change. Just external factors.
    If anything, the max wearing might make the flu vaccines look worse. It will be harder to observe a difference if nobody is getting hospitalized with the flu. But if the sample size is big enough or the study is long enough then it should work itself out as a wash. Because as Bluedog said, both arms would have the effect of masks included. So it would just delay/reduce the number of cases in both arms.

    Unless there is some compounding effect where the relative benefit of the vaccine vs no vaccine is greater in a world where masks are worn than in a world where masks aren't worn, it won't improve the VE estimates. And if anything, I would suspect that the mask wearing would reduce the estimated relative benefit of the vaccine compared with not wearing the mask, as nonvaccinated people wearing masks have some protection whereas nonvaccinated people without masks have none.

  18. #13718
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Not to be a buzz kill but this kind of news about variant cases beginning to surge in FL would give me pause.

    https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...s-to-2-3k.html

    Why donít some leaders get it? Did they not learn the first time around?
    I'll take a stab at answering. Leaders get blamed for unemployment and a poor economy, but not for a rise in cases. If people get the coronavirus, they are to blame as individuals, not the leader's/government's policy. So it's in the leader's self-interest to promote a good economy at the expense of safe health policy. I'm obviously not advocating for this, but that's my take on an explanation.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  19. #13719
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    I think this might be discussed in the NCAA Women's Tournament thread, but for those who didn't see it, Baylor women's coach thinks that a positive Covid test before or during the men's and/or women's final four would be a major inconvenience, so they shouldn't do any more testing.

    "After the games today and tomorrow, there's four teams left, I think, on the men's side and the women's side," Mulkey said, unprompted, during her postgame news conference. "They need to dump the COVID testing. Wouldn't it be a shame to keep COVID testing and then you got kids that test positive or something and they don't get to play in the Final Four? So you just need to forget the COVID tests and get the four teams playing in each Final Four and go battle it out."

    https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...ing-final-four

  20. #13720
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I don't think the lack of masks and distancing would impact the effectiveness percentages because it's essentially a ratio. Both the vaccinated and non-vaccinated group theoretically had similar behaviors so even if the vaccinated group produced fewer cases than would have occurred without masks, the non-vaccinated group would as well. Essentially both the numerator and denominator got decreased.

    In a "normal world", the raw case count would increase under both conditions but the ratio would theoretically remain the same. At least, that's how I understand it...so if say 5 cases were found among the vaccinated and 90 among placebo, if nobody had been wearing masks or practicing social distancing and community spread was the same as it was, you might have gotten 15 cases among the vaccinated and 270 among the placebo group if taken over the same timeframe, the same effectiveness percentage. (I made up those numbers). But the trials actually just go until a certain threshold is reached so it would have just concluded earlier.

    Said another way, if 10,000,000 people get infected a 75% effectiveness would still produce a large number of vaccinated people who actually get it while of course if only 10,000 total people get it that number is greatly reduced. But the effectiveness of the vaccine didn't change. Just external factors.
    Well said.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

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