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  1. #12201
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    I hate to be actuarial about it but I think that rubicon is crossed once we say ďas many lost as x number of 9/11ísĒ or similar. So, imo if we are going to use numbers to compare ďhow terribleĒ various disasters is that comparison should factor in lost person-years of life. But I understand why people donít want to think that way.
    I fully understand that you are speaking in a professional capacity here and looking at your own role both as an actuarial and as someone who is older, and I dont mean this as a judgment of you, but I have to say...

    It is a dangerous aspect of fascism to value a human life based upon the value it provides to the state. I know in situations of extreme emergency, we will triage and provide care to the young instead of the elderly, but this is only in absolute moments of massive demand.

    Up to now, our society has treated every human life as equally important, no matter the age. This is the first time I am aware of that we want to sacrifice certain demographics because we do not care to protect them due to cost and not short-term emergency.

    I am extremely concerned about this. It is an unavoidable conversation in terms of vaccine priorities, but I have heard this argument many many times going back to March about the fact that we should have sacrificed our elderly to protect the economy.

    I fear that this argument takes hold, and in ten years we no longer allow undocumented immigrants access to hospitals, and in another ten years we use income or wealth as a deciding factor of access to chemotherapy. (Of course, this is already done to a certain degree, as patients who cannot prove enough wealth to take long-term meds can be rejected for transplants or other procedures.)
    Last edited by Namtilal; 12-31-2020 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Hit post by mistake

  2. #12202
    This is a series by Carl Zimmer, who is an excellent science writer, on how the vaccines work.

    This link is about Novavax, which is in Stage 3 clinical trials in the US and UK right now.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...9-vaccine.html

    This is about Moderna, which I took yesterday:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...9-vaccine.html
    ~rthomas

  3. #12203
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Your point about depending on a PCP or people without a PCP is what scares me. Are the PCP's really ready to handle the administrative burden of this? I see a sole practitioner in NYC. I've been with him for about 15 years, great guy, mid-late 50s. Very thorough, we are on the same page about things. I am mid-40s, have my aches and pains but no major issues, and I see specialists for most of those, so I might see my PCP frequently then not see him for a long time (I am not great about doing physicals). He shares office space but basically has one or two people working for him and they are very underwhelming. I trust him to try his best, but he will not be perfect in managing this process because he has a lot of patients like me who come and go, and it is just him to figure it out. I am not going to have my number called for a while but I guess I need to get back on his radar to make sure that he will call me when the time comes, if we are not just doing mass vaccinations at that point since I think I am basically in the "other" group.

    And I think I am in a better position than a lot of other younger people (especially men) who are generally healthy so don't really have a relationship with a PCP. Especially with the increased number of urgent care facilities around that they can use for quick visits, plus you can now go to the pharmacy for flu shots, a lot of big companies offer basic medical services, etc. Who is looking out for them? And how about the homeless, those who are uninsured, etc.?

    There are going to be a lot of gaps, mistakes, and problems. Where we stand now is much better than nothing but that is not good enough. I would feel better if the person who was supposed to be focusing on this was actually focusing on it instead of golf and tweeting about rigged elections. Hopefully that will change in three weeks.
    As fate would have it, this morning I had a long chat with someone at our biggest hospital who says the state is actively working on a plan to serve folks who don't have a PCP, including homeless people...I think our guys are competent enough to pull that off. What most concerns me (and my hospital source) is how quickly we're going to get meaningful amounts of vaccine. We can handle a whole lot more than we're being given right now, which I suspect is true for much of the country.

  4. #12204
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    I stopped reading the thread back on November 1st. My mom was transported to the hospital with shortness of breath and being flushed on Friday night, Oct. 30. On Saturday she tested positive for Covid-19 and viral pneumonia. On Sunday they gave her the convalescent plasma with antibodies and steroids to help her lungs. She was on oxygen, varying from 2 L/min through a nose tube to 8 L/min with a full mask. On that Tuesday, she got the 5 day course of Remdesivir. A week or two later she had a bladder infection and they started antibiotics. Then they discovered she had MRSA, not sure where because they couldn't/wouldn't do a T.E.E. (Trans Esophageal Echocardiogram) to see if there was vegetative matter on the back of a heart valve, so they started her on more powerful antibiotics. After 6 weeks, she finally tested negative twice for Covid, but she still had the MRSA. They did the T.E.E. and found two heart valves were damaged, but because of her age (90) they didn't do any surgery because "she'd likely die on the table".

    When I spoke to her on the phone almost daily she always sounded out of breath to varying degrees, but said she had just eaten and she said she felt "fine".

    Last week they started talking about moving her to a SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) so she could continue the steroids and antibiotics, but then her heart rate raced and her potassium level dropped. They got that back under control, but her speaking became very muffled. Apparently last week she stopped eating and drinking and the nurse said her tongue was so dry it was sticking to the roof of her mouth. More talk of the SNF "in a few days" and discussions about hospice to keep her comfortable.

    This morning at 1:30 a.m., waking from a deep sleep, I heard my cell phone vibrating and I ignored it. How dare those spammers call that late/early. But then it rang again I answered it and it was my brother. I had slept through the first two calls, from the hospital (they left a voicemail after the second call and then called my brother). He told me the hospital called and that Mom had passed about 30 minutes ago. I had to call the nurses' station to tell them about our per-arrangements. I asked what happened and the nurse said her pulse had dropped to ~30, they gave her atropine and then her heart just stopped. She had a DNR so that was it.

    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  5. #12205
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Namtilal View Post
    I fully understand that you are speaking in a professional capacity here and looking at your own role both as an actuarial and as someone who is older, and I dont mean this as a judgment of you, but I have to say...

    It is a dangerous aspect of fascism to value a human life based upon the value it provides to the state. I know in situations of extreme emergency, we will triage and provide care to the young instead of the elderly, but this is only in absolute moments of massive demand.

    Up to now, our society has treated every human life as equally important, no matter the age. This is the first time I am aware of that we want to sacrifice certain demographics because we do not care to protect them due to cost and not short-term emergency.

    I am extremely concerned about this. It is an unavoidable conversation in terms of vaccine priorities, but I have heard this argument many many times going back to March about the fact that we should have sacrificed our elderly to protect the economy.

    I fear that this argument takes hold, and in ten years we no longer allow undocumented immigrants access to hospitals, and in another ten years we use income or wealth as a deciding factor of access to chemotherapy. (Of course, this is already done to a certain degree, as patients who cannot prove enough wealth to take long-term meds can be rejected for transplants or other procedures.)
    Disagree strongly with this. If you imagine 2 hypothetical diseases:

    Disease A kills 100 35 year old women and men who would have otherwise lived to average age of 75
    Disease B accelerates the deaths of 100 80 year old women and men who would have died within the next 6 months anyway

    These 2 diseases are not comparable in their impact. One is much, much worse than the other. Saying they are equivalent is just wrong IMO

    (neither is meant to represent Covid-19 just to be clear).

  6. #12206
    Quote Originally Posted by Namtilal View Post
    I fully understand that you are speaking in a professional capacity here and looking at your own role both as an actuarial and as someone who is older, and I dont mean this as a judgment of you, but I have to say...

    It is a dangerous aspect of fascism to value a human life based upon the value it provides to the state. I know in situations of extreme emergency, we will triage and provide care to the young instead of the elderly, but this is only in absolute moments of massive demand.

    Up to now, our society has treated every human life as equally important, no matter the age. This is the first time I am aware of that we want to sacrifice certain demographics because we do not care to protect them due to cost and not short-term emergency.

    I am extremely concerned about this. It is an unavoidable conversation in terms of vaccine priorities, but I have heard this argument many many times going back to March about the fact that we should have sacrificed our elderly to protect the economy.

    I fear that this argument takes hold, and in ten years we no longer allow undocumented immigrants access to hospitals, and in another ten years we use income or wealth as a deciding factor of access to chemotherapy. (Of course, this is already done to a certain degree, as patients who cannot prove enough wealth to take long-term meds can be rejected for transplants or other procedures.)
    Just to be clear nothing in my post had anything to do with economic value or sacrificing anyone. The fact that I think a 6yo dying from cancer is more tragic than an 82yo dying from heart disease isn't utility driven. I just think everyone deserves a fair shot at life.

    And for the record I'm with you on the "boomer resentment" issue - young people have a right to be upset about the decline of the middle class and SS not being there for them. But they are picking the wrong targets. Policy decisions, technology, global economies are the culprits - not age. And in fact the generation behind the boomer cohort bought more heavily into the mythological trickle down theory, along with unfunded tax cuts and record deficits. The biggest thing the boomer generation did to hurt the younger cohort was not having enough of them. A declining work force will make SS very tight for those born in the 70's or later.

  7. #12207
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I stopped reading the thread back on November 1st. My mom was transported to the hospital with shortness of breath and being flushed on Friday night, Oct. 30. On Saturday she tested positive for Covid-19 and viral pneumonia. On Sunday they gave her the convalescent plasma with antibodies and steroids to help her lungs. She was on oxygen, varying from 2 L/min through a nose tube to 8 L/min with a full mask. On that Tuesday, she got the 5 day course of Remdesivir. A week or two later she had a bladder infection and they started antibiotics. Then they discovered she had MRSA, not sure where because they couldn't/wouldn't do a T.E.E. (Trans Esophageal Echocardiogram) to see if there was vegetative matter on the back of a heart valve, so they started her on more powerful antibiotics. After 6 weeks, she finally tested negative twice for Covid, but she still had the MRSA. They did the T.E.E. and found two heart valves were damaged, but because of her age (90) they didn't do any surgery because "she'd likely die on the table".

    When I spoke to her on the phone almost daily she always sounded out of breath to varying degrees, but said she had just eaten and she said she felt "fine".

    Last week they started talking about moving her to a SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) so she could continue the steroids and antibiotics, but then her heart rate raced and her potassium level dropped. They got that back under control, but her speaking became very muffled. Apparently last week she stopped eating and drinking and the nurse said her tongue was so dry it was sticking to the roof of her mouth. More talk of the SNF "in a few days" and discussions about hospice to keep her comfortable.

    This morning at 1:30 a.m., waking from a deep sleep, I heard my cell phone vibrating and I ignored it. How dare those spammers call that late/early. But then it rang again I answered it and it was my brother. I had slept through the first two calls, from the hospital (they left a voicemail after the second call and then called my brother). He told me the hospital called and that Mom had passed about 30 minutes ago. I had to call the nurses' station to tell them about our per-arrangements. I asked what happened and the nurse said her pulse had dropped to ~30, they gave her atropine and then her heart just stopped. She had a DNR so that was it.

    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    Iím so sorry, Ozzie!

    -jk

  8. #12208
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I stopped reading the thread back on November 1st. My mom was transported to the hospital with shortness of breath and being flushed on Friday night, Oct. 30. On Saturday she tested positive for Covid-19 and viral pneumonia. On Sunday they gave her the convalescent plasma with antibodies and steroids to help her lungs. She was on oxygen, varying from 2 L/min through a nose tube to 8 L/min with a full mask. On that Tuesday, she got the 5 day course of Remdesivir. A week or two later she had a bladder infection and they started antibiotics. Then they discovered she had MRSA, not sure where because they couldn't/wouldn't do a T.E.E. (Trans Esophageal Echocardiogram) to see if there was vegetative matter on the back of a heart valve, so they started her on more powerful antibiotics. After 6 weeks, she finally tested negative twice for Covid, but she still had the MRSA. They did the T.E.E. and found two heart valves were damaged, but because of her age (90) they didn't do any surgery because "she'd likely die on the table".

    When I spoke to her on the phone almost daily she always sounded out of breath to varying degrees, but said she had just eaten and she said she felt "fine".

    Last week they started talking about moving her to a SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) so she could continue the steroids and antibiotics, but then her heart rate raced and her potassium level dropped. They got that back under control, but her speaking became very muffled. Apparently last week she stopped eating and drinking and the nurse said her tongue was so dry it was sticking to the roof of her mouth. More talk of the SNF "in a few days" and discussions about hospice to keep her comfortable.

    This morning at 1:30 a.m., waking from a deep sleep, I heard my cell phone vibrating and I ignored it. How dare those spammers call that late/early. But then it rang again I answered it and it was my brother. I had slept through the first two calls, from the hospital (they left a voicemail after the second call and then called my brother). He told me the hospital called and that Mom had passed about 30 minutes ago. I had to call the nurses' station to tell them about our per-arrangements. I asked what happened and the nurse said her pulse had dropped to ~30, they gave her atropine and then her heart just stopped. She had a DNR so that was it.

    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    So sorry for your loss, Ozzie.

    I have an acquaintance with COPD who caught Covid-19 in late August. She is in her 50s but has been dealing with issues ever since her diagnosis. She has tested both positive and negative since Labor Day. I worry for her health every day.

    Wholeheartedly agree with your last two lines.

  9. #12209
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    Disagree strongly with this. If you imagine 2 hypothetical diseases:

    Disease A kills 100 35 year old women and men who would have otherwise lived to average age of 75
    Disease B accelerates the deaths of 100 80 year old women and men who would have died within the next 6 months anyway

    These 2 diseases are not comparable in their impact. One is much, much worse than the other. Saying they are equivalent is just wrong IMO

    (neither is meant to represent Covid-19 just to be clear).

    A thought exercise which fails IMHO on practical issues. Please tell us how you are going to identify your disease B group?. FWIW, the average remaining lifespan of an 80 year old in the US is 9.1 years according to a quick Google search.

  10. #12210
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    A thought exercise which fails IMHO on practical issues. Please tell us how you are going to identify your disease B group?. FWIW, the average remaining lifespan of an 80 year old in the US is 9.1 years according to a quick Google search.
    I have no idea what you're talking about. I wasn't suggesting that we identify anyone??? Nor was I saying anything about what the average remaining lifespan of anyone is???

  11. #12211
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about. I wasn't suggesting that we identify anyone??? Nor was I saying anything about what the average remaining lifespan of anyone is???
    You specifically said "80-year-olds who were going to die in the next 6 months anyway" in your original post.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  12. #12212
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    You specifically said "80-year-olds who were going to die in the next 6 months anyway" in your original post.
    Yes, I did say that. It's a hypothetical. I didn't say anything about what real 80 year olds' life expectency is. In my hypothetical, the people were going to die within the next 6 months. I did not say or suggest that these 80 year olds are typical or average or normal or anything of the sort. This has absolutely nothing to do with the average life expectancy of 80 year olds at all.

    It's really not that complicated. Put it a different way.

    If I get a disease that makes me die 1 second earlier than I would otherwise die, I hardly care. But, I guess, to the "a life is a life" crowd, that is exactly the same thing as a healthy 16 year old losing their life. I just don't get that at all.

  13. #12213
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I stopped reading the thread back on November 1st. My mom was transported to the hospital with shortness of breath and being flushed on Friday night, Oct. 30. On Saturday she tested positive for Covid-19 and viral pneumonia. On Sunday they gave her the convalescent plasma with antibodies and steroids to help her lungs. She was on oxygen, varying from 2 L/min through a nose tube to 8 L/min with a full mask. On that Tuesday, she got the 5 day course of Remdesivir. A week or two later she had a bladder infection and they started antibiotics. Then they discovered she had MRSA, not sure where because they couldn't/wouldn't do a T.E.E. (Trans Esophageal Echocardiogram) to see if there was vegetative matter on the back of a heart valve, so they started her on more powerful antibiotics. After 6 weeks, she finally tested negative twice for Covid, but she still had the MRSA. They did the T.E.E. and found two heart valves were damaged, but because of her age (90) they didn't do any surgery because "she'd likely die on the table".

    When I spoke to her on the phone almost daily she always sounded out of breath to varying degrees, but said she had just eaten and she said she felt "fine".

    Last week they started talking about moving her to a SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) so she could continue the steroids and antibiotics, but then her heart rate raced and her potassium level dropped. They got that back under control, but her speaking became very muffled. Apparently last week she stopped eating and drinking and the nurse said her tongue was so dry it was sticking to the roof of her mouth. More talk of the SNF "in a few days" and discussions about hospice to keep her comfortable.

    This morning at 1:30 a.m., waking from a deep sleep, I heard my cell phone vibrating and I ignored it. How dare those spammers call that late/early. But then it rang again I answered it and it was my brother. I had slept through the first two calls, from the hospital (they left a voicemail after the second call and then called my brother). He told me the hospital called and that Mom had passed about 30 minutes ago. I had to call the nurses' station to tell them about our per-arrangements. I asked what happened and the nurse said her pulse had dropped to ~30, they gave her atropine and then her heart just stopped. She had a DNR so that was it.

    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    Oh, my Lord. I am so sorry for your mother. Thank you for sharing the incredibly touching story. All the best to you and your family.

    Sage
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  14. #12214
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    Yes, I did say that. It's a hypothetical. I didn't say anything about what real 80 year olds' life expectency is. In my hypothetical, the people were going to die within the next 6 months. I did not say or suggest that these 80 year olds are typical or average or normal or anything of the sort. This has absolutely nothing to do with the average life expectancy of 80 year olds at all.

    It's really not that complicated. Put it a different way.

    If I get a disease that makes me die 1 second earlier than I would otherwise die, I hardly care. But, I guess, to the "a life is a life" crowd, that is exactly the same thing as a healthy 16 year old losing their life. I just don't get that at all.
    I understood that it was a hypothetical, but here's a pretty glaring problem with it: in real life, we don't know when a person is going to die. Your 80-year-old could live to be 102 and have 22 more years of life ahead of him/her. And your 16-year-old could get in a car accident a month after you administered your treatment (or vaccine or whatever) and die on the spot. I would agree that, generally speaking, a group of 100 16-year-olds has a lot more person-years (if you will) ahead of them than does a group of octogenarians. But for any individual in either cohort, the jury is out.

    I understand that you are saying that the death of 100 16-year-olds robs the world of a lot more person-years than the death of 100 80-year-olds. Although this is certainly true, this line of thinking can very quickly become a bit of a slippery slope, ethically speaking. I noticed a perhaps subconscious bit of bias in the way your worded your post, saying the disease "kills" a 16-year-old but it "accelerates the death of" an 80-year-old. If you think about it, it only accelerates the death of the 16-year-old, too, given that we are all going to die. Ageism is perhaps the last accepted prejudice in our society. I doubt it will go away anytime soon.

    Finally, your hypothetical is not particularly germane to the current pandemic, given differential risk of a young and an old cohort.
    Last edited by rsvman; 12-31-2020 at 03:44 PM.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  15. #12215
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Iím 100% on the side of this is serious af and losing 300k+ lives prematurely is an absolute tragedy. But I donít think comparisons of death counts (not picking on you, everyone is doing it) are a great way to show equivalencies. Iím 69 and have had a heart attack. I really, really hope I donít go via covid but if I did I just donít think me shedding the mortal coil would be as tragic as a 20yo blown up by a landmine or a 35yo killed by a plane crashing into his office building. Or a 6yo going via cancer. The saddest thing about the 1918 flu was mortality was highest for children and teenagers (iirc, docs may correct me).

    I hate to be actuarial about it but I think that rubicon is crossed once we say ďas many lost as x number of 9/11ísĒ or similar. So, imo if we are going to use numbers to compare ďhow terribleĒ various disasters is that comparison should factor in lost person-years of life. But I understand why people donít want to think that way.
    First, I don't think we have are "crossing the Rubicon" in our current discussion, in the sense that we are departing on an irreversible course.

    Second, you are citing "newsy" comparisons, and no half-serious thinker would take them literally.

    Third, we do take into consideration life expectancy and other such things in our decision-making about healthcare, vaccines, job safety, etc. But these tend to be considered implicitly, as we, as a society, are sensitive about expressing opinions or making statements that some tragedies or deaths are worse than others.

    This is a worthwhile subject.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  16. #12216
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    Ozzie,

    I am touched and saddened by the story of your mother. She must have been one-in-a-million to raise a son like you. Everyone needs to read what you wrote.

    I suspect there are many folks, like you, who have trouble keeping up with the pace of this thread. So, I copied your post to the stickied Covid thread at the top of the Off-Topic board in the hope more people will see it that way. Frankly, that thread needs to be used more by the Mods to keep people aware of important stuff.

    You mother and your entire family will be in my thoughts... stay strong, my friend.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  17. #12217
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ozzie,

    I am touched and saddened by the story of your mother. She must have been one-in-a-million to raise a son like you. Everyone needs to read what you wrote.

    I suspect there are many folks, like you, who have trouble keeping up with the pace of this thread. So, I copied your post to the stickied Covid thread at the top of the Off-Topic board in the hope more people will see it that way. Frankly, that thread needs to be used more by the Mods to keep people aware of important stuff.

    You mother and your entire family will be in my thoughts... stay strong, my friend.
    Thanks, Jason, and all the others who have reached out via the thread or PM's. I am touched by your kindness. Yeah, my mother was pretty great, my dad too. I've heard from many childhood friends who knew her, and to a one, they appreciated her kindness and generosity to them, as my house was "the open house" where we congregated because they were welcome.

    Jason, I Zporked you on the other thread!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  18. #12218
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I stopped reading the thread back on November 1st. My mom was transported to the hospital with shortness of breath and being flushed on Friday night, Oct. 30. On Saturday she tested positive for Covid-19 and viral pneumonia. On Sunday they gave her the convalescent plasma with antibodies and steroids to help her lungs. She was on oxygen, varying from 2 L/min through a nose tube to 8 L/min with a full mask. On that Tuesday, she got the 5 day course of Remdesivir. A week or two later she had a bladder infection and they started antibiotics. Then they discovered she had MRSA, not sure where because they couldn't/wouldn't do a T.E.E. (Trans Esophageal Echocardiogram) to see if there was vegetative matter on the back of a heart valve, so they started her on more powerful antibiotics. After 6 weeks, she finally tested negative twice for Covid, but she still had the MRSA. They did the T.E.E. and found two heart valves were damaged, but because of her age (90) they didn't do any surgery because "she'd likely die on the table".

    When I spoke to her on the phone almost daily she always sounded out of breath to varying degrees, but said she had just eaten and she said she felt "fine".

    Last week they started talking about moving her to a SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) so she could continue the steroids and antibiotics, but then her heart rate raced and her potassium level dropped. They got that back under control, but her speaking became very muffled. Apparently last week she stopped eating and drinking and the nurse said her tongue was so dry it was sticking to the roof of her mouth. More talk of the SNF "in a few days" and discussions about hospice to keep her comfortable.

    This morning at 1:30 a.m., waking from a deep sleep, I heard my cell phone vibrating and I ignored it. How dare those spammers call that late/early. But then it rang again I answered it and it was my brother. I had slept through the first two calls, from the hospital (they left a voicemail after the second call and then called my brother). He told me the hospital called and that Mom had passed about 30 minutes ago. I had to call the nurses' station to tell them about our per-arrangements. I asked what happened and the nurse said her pulse had dropped to ~30, they gave her atropine and then her heart just stopped. She had a DNR so that was it.

    My mother was a relatively healthy 90 year old, living in an assisted living facility (ALF) at care level "0" on a scale of 0 to 5, she took care of all her daily needs without assistance. She didn't have any heart problems and certainly didn't have MRSA. I assume the official cause of death will be Covid related symptoms, like the Louisiana congressman who just died, even though she didn't "have" Covid at the time. She is one of the 300,000+ and counting that have died from this virus.

    Wear a mask, wash your hands, social distance and for God-sake, get the vaccine as soon as you can.

    To all you anti-vaccers and Covid statistic deniers, go to Hell. It is real.
    So sorry, Ozzie. My condolences and prayers to you and your family.

  19. #12219
    I am so so sorry. I wish you and your family well. Hoping the new year brings all of us hope and light and wellness.

    Sending good vibes.

  20. #12220
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Forest Hills, NY
    What a horror. Nothing I can say can provide any solace, but you are in our thoughts. Wishing you all the best

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