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  1. #11781
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    This will really help confidence in the vaccines:

    “White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Friday told Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, to submit his resignation if the agency does not clear the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine by day’s end, according to people familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss what happened.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...covid-vaccine/
    The sad part about this is that it was going to be approved by the FDA anyway. This just appears to be grandstanding by the White House to claim credit for pushing what was essentially a foregone conclusion. But a totally unnecessary move that will only further sow distrust in science, unfortunately.

  2. #11782
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    I really, truly don't get why they're doing this.

  3. #11783
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yes, both the risk of infection and the risk of death given infection are substantially higher with COVID than the flu for almost everyone. It's true that younger adults are at much lower risk of death than older adults with COVID infection. But that's also true with the flu infection too, which does very little damage at all to those under 65 and without comorbidities. Basically, across almost every age group COVID is more deadly, more damaging, and more infectious than the flu. And it isn't really close.

    The lone exception seems to be the very young, where COVID doesn't seem to have had the same differential effect over the flu. It's hard to say how much of that is due to school closures and restrictions (kids will be the ones most affected by lockdowns until schools are fully reopened). But that's the one age group where we haven't seen as dramatic an impact.
    From the article I posted earlier today:

    "Early on in the pandemic, it looked like children might escape COVID-19 relatively unscathed, but now we’ve learned that kids can get infected with the coronavirus, spread the virus even without symptoms and, in more than a few cases, get seriously ill and even die.

    "Now, a new study in the journal 'Blood Advances' finds that a high proportion of children infected with this coronavirus showed elevated levels of a blood marker tied to blood vessel damage — and not just kids who were sick with COVID."

  4. #11784
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    From the article I posted earlier today:

    "Early on in the pandemic, it looked like children might escape COVID-19 relatively unscathed, but now we’ve learned that kids can get infected with the coronavirus, spread the virus even without symptoms and, in more than a few cases, get seriously ill and even die.

    "Now, a new study in the journal 'Blood Advances' finds that a high proportion of children infected with this coronavirus showed elevated levels of a blood marker tied to blood vessel damage — and not just kids who were sick with COVID."
    Yikes. So strike my last paragraph. It sounds like COVID is worse for everybody, both in risk and severity.

  5. #11785
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    This will really help confidence in the vaccines:

    “White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Friday told Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, to submit his resignation if the agency does not clear the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine by day’s end, according to people familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss what happened.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...covid-vaccine/
    I'm so glad that Mark Meadows has taken the time to study epidemiology and feels comfortable overruling the FDA in probably their most important duty of the last several decades.

  6. #11786
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I really, truly don't get why they're doing this.
    This is really what you do if you want to erode confidence in a vaccine...I'm pretty confident that the reason so many people (40%+?) said they were hesitant about taking a vaccine was due to concerns that politics was Trumping (excuse me) science in the approval process. To be this close to genuine approval and pull a stunt like this is just plain stupid.

  7. #11787
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I really, truly don't get why they're doing this.
    As we Jews say on Passover - why is this night different from all other nights?

  8. #11788
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    It's easy for me to say, but the FDA Commissioner should issue a written response saying that the FDA has been working hard on this and takes its responsibilities very seriously. That this process is ongoing and may be nearing a decision but the FDA can not bow to political pressure to expedite a decision that is already proceeding in an orderly and scientific manner.

    He probably gets fired but it is the right thing to do. It won't be career suicide as he may get reappointed by Biden and will be viewed as a hero by most of the country.

  9. #11789
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Corey View Post
    I really, truly don't get why they're doing this.
    A knife in the back and more of the same.

    - Robert Hunter

  10. #11790
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    This will really help confidence in the vaccines:

    “White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Friday told Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, to submit his resignation if the agency does not clear the nation’s first coronavirus vaccine by day’s end, according to people familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss what happened.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...covid-vaccine/
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    It's easy for me to say, but the FDA Commissioner should issue a written response saying that the FDA has been working hard on this and takes its responsibilities very seriously. That this process is ongoing and may be nearing a decision but the FDA can not bow to political pressure to expedite a decision that is already proceeding in an orderly and scientific manner.

    He probably gets fired but it is the right thing to do. It won't be career suicide as he may get reappointed by Biden and will be viewed as a hero by most of the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    A knife in the back and more of the same.

    - Robert Hunter
    Hahn denies it happened, and I tend to agree with him. Replacing the FDA director just slows things down. E.g., Trump fires the guy, -- and Hahn asks, "Effective when and who replaces me?" The person who replaces him says, "I need to look at the record, which will only take four or five days." Pretty hard to stampede the bureaucracy -- especially the FDA, which is always under pressure -- in the last 40 days of a lame-duck administration.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  11. #11791
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    It's easy for me to say, but the FDA Commissioner should issue a written response saying that the FDA has been working hard on this and takes its responsibilities very seriously. That this process is ongoing and may be nearing a decision but the FDA can not bow to political pressure to expedite a decision that is already proceeding in an orderly and scientific manner.

    He probably gets fired but it is the right thing to do. It won't be career suicide as he may get reappointed by Biden and will be viewed as a hero by most of the country.
    Now is not the time to be encouraging the FDA to skirt measures and find shortcuts.

    I see this as a deliberate attempt to undermine the confidence in the vaccine and potentially submarine the next administration.

  12. #11792
    On the vaccine front, AstraZeneca is exploring a mix and match trial with other companies. In a dogs and cats living together moment, the British company will work with the Russians and their Sputnik V vaccine. (They will also work with Pfizer).

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astr...d-shot-2020-12

  13. #11793
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    On the vaccine front, AstraZeneca is exploring a mix and match trial with other companies. In a dogs and cats living together moment, the British company will work with the Russians and their Sputnik V vaccine. (They will also work with Pfizer).

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astr...d-shot-2020-12
    I'm ready to predict that the AstraZenica vaccine will not be approved for widespread use in Western countries for at least another 6 months, likely even longer than that... which would still be a phenomenal timeline compared to pretty much every other vaccine in history.

    So, it looks like if you are not one of the first 50 - 100 million folks in the US who will get the vaccine (health care, old, pre-existing conditions) your hope of getting the vaccine before the fall probably rest on Moderna -- a company that has never produced anything -- proving to be really, really great at producing a ton of vaccine.

    Sigh... I was sorta hoping to come out of my house in the summer.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  14. #11794
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyClark View Post
    It's easy for me to say, but the FDA Commissioner should issue a written response saying that the FDA has been working hard on this and takes its responsibilities very seriously. That this process is ongoing and may be nearing a decision but the FDA can not bow to political pressure to expedite a decision that is already proceeding in an orderly and scientific manner.

    He probably gets fired but it is the right thing to do. It won't be career suicide as he may get reappointed by Biden and will be viewed as a hero by most of the country.
    Hahn, as I recall, is a scientist, so getting fired by an anti-science President would only enhance his reputation. But he may not want to be fired, simply because that's not what the FDA and nation need right now.

  15. #11795
    Kansas has started a new ad campaign called "Stop the Spread". The TV ad caught my attention but I can't find a link to it. The announcement from Governor Kelly says "the campaign is part of a bigger, all of the above strategy that will encourage Kansans to follow COVID-19 mitigation guidelines, encourage voluntary testing, avoid mass gatherings and use face coverings. She said the approach includes partnerships with the Kansas Hospital Association, Kansas Chamber of Commerce, Kansas Farm Bureau, the Kansas Leadership Center and more."

    I understand the face coverings, avoid mass gatherings, hand washing, etc. but I'm not sure I understand the testing aspect of it. The TV ad seems to be encouraging people to get tested just to get tested. A teacher in Missouri that I know is talking about getting tested weekly - and they are back to remote learning. What is the purpose behind getting tested if you have no known exposure or symptoms? How does it mitigate the spread of Covid? I go to work every day but wear a mask unless I'm in my personal office, I put a mask on if someone stands in my doorway to talk to me for more than a minute or so, I wear a mask when I'm in a store (rarely in there more than 10-20 minutes), and have a set group of people (family that are also limiting their activities) that are in my "pod". Should I be getting random Covid tests? It seems like a waste of resources to me. What am I missing?

  16. #11796
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInKansas View Post
    Kansas has started a new ad campaign called "Stop the Spread". The TV ad caught my attention but I can't find a link to it. The announcement from Governor Kelly says "the campaign is part of a bigger, all of the above strategy that will encourage Kansans to follow COVID-19 mitigation guidelines, encourage voluntary testing, avoid mass gatherings and use face coverings. She said the approach includes partnerships with the Kansas Hospital Association, Kansas Chamber of Commerce, Kansas Farm Bureau, the Kansas Leadership Center and more."

    I understand the face coverings, avoid mass gatherings, hand washing, etc. but I'm not sure I understand the testing aspect of it. The TV ad seems to be encouraging people to get tested just to get tested. A teacher in Missouri that I know is talking about getting tested weekly - and they are back to remote learning. What is the purpose behind getting tested if you have no known exposure or symptoms? How does it mitigate the spread of Covid? I go to work every day but wear a mask unless I'm in my personal office, I put a mask on if someone stands in my doorway to talk to me for more than a minute or so, I wear a mask when I'm in a store (rarely in there more than 10-20 minutes), and have a set group of people (family that are also limiting their activities) that are in my "pod". Should I be getting random Covid tests? It seems like a waste of resources to me. What am I missing?
    Maybe nothing. But at Duke all students are getting tested frequently, and Duke has been very, very successful in controlling COVID infections. Student tests total about 160,000 since August 2 with 152 positive (all but 31 cleared) and contact tracing. Tests group five samples together and then retest individuals if positive.

    Positive tests are about one percent of student body of 16,000 -- and at these low rates, there are undoubtedly false positives.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  17. #11797
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInKansas View Post
    Kansas has started a new ad campaign called "Stop the Spread". The TV ad caught my attention but I can't find a link to it. The announcement from Governor Kelly says "the campaign is part of a bigger, all of the above strategy that will encourage Kansans to follow COVID-19 mitigation guidelines, encourage voluntary testing, avoid mass gatherings and use face coverings. She said the approach includes partnerships with the Kansas Hospital Association, Kansas Chamber of Commerce, Kansas Farm Bureau, the Kansas Leadership Center and more."

    I understand the face coverings, avoid mass gatherings, hand washing, etc. but I'm not sure I understand the testing aspect of it. The TV ad seems to be encouraging people to get tested just to get tested. A teacher in Missouri that I know is talking about getting tested weekly - and they are back to remote learning. What is the purpose behind getting tested if you have no known exposure or symptoms? How does it mitigate the spread of Covid? I go to work every day but wear a mask unless I'm in my personal office, I put a mask on if someone stands in my doorway to talk to me for more than a minute or so, I wear a mask when I'm in a store (rarely in there more than 10-20 minutes), and have a set group of people (family that are also limiting their activities) that are in my "pod". Should I be getting random Covid tests? It seems like a waste of resources to me. What am I missing?
    I assume it speaks to the asymptomatic nature of the virus.

  18. #11798
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Parenthetically, one of my best friends has been a skeptic on COVID19. Not an anti-masker, in your face guy but he has doubted the severity of COVID19 and thought the masking and social distancing issues were silly and unnecessary. He's a smart guy, math degree, Masters in Electrical Engineering, long time and successful career in the aerospace industry.

    I talked with him today and he has reversed course. Two of his relatives are dying of Covid19 and the numbers have finally overwhelmed him.

    I appreciated his humility in admitting he was wrong. He's one of these guys who is usually right and somehow got caught up in the flu v Covid19 argument.

  19. #11799
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I'm ready to predict that the AstraZenica vaccine will not be approved for widespread use in Western countries for at least another 6 months, likely even longer than that... which would still be a phenomenal timeline compared to pretty much every other vaccine in history.

    So, it looks like if you are not one of the first 50 - 100 million folks in the US who will get the vaccine (health care, old, pre-existing conditions) your hope of getting the vaccine before the fall probably rest on Moderna -- a company that has never produced anything -- proving to be really, really great at producing a ton of vaccine.

    Sigh... I was sorta hoping to come out of my house in the summer.
    Is there bad news about J&J's vaccine, of which the U.S. has ordered 100 million doses?

    Per my understanding, they're expected to seek emergency authorization no later than early February.

    Between that, the 100 million that would be vaccinated by the 200 million doses already ordered from Pfizer and Moderna--and the 50 million that would be vaccinated by the 100 million additional doses the U.S. just bought from Moderna--we'd be up to 250 million Americans with these three.

  20. #11800
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I'm ready to predict that the AstraZenica vaccine will not be approved for widespread use in Western countries for at least another 6 months, likely even longer than that... which would still be a phenomenal timeline compared to pretty much every other vaccine in history.

    So, it looks like if you are not one of the first 50 - 100 million folks in the US who will get the vaccine (health care, old, pre-existing conditions) your hope of getting the vaccine before the fall probably rest on Moderna -- a company that has never produced anything -- proving to be really, really great at producing a ton of vaccine.

    Sigh... I was sorta hoping to come out of my house in the summer.
    True but Moderna is not going at it alone. They've teamed up with Lonza, a Swiss pharma company. It's basically the reverse of the Pfizer vaccine where the small upstart biotech company (BioNTech) is a European company who was largely responsible for R&D but not manufacturing and distribution. Moderna will rely on Lonza Group for that. It's not the behemoth of Pfizer but they've been around for 120+ years so it's not their first rodeo.

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