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  1. #10381
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    And then there is the heartbreaking story of 19-year-old Chad Dorrill.

    From my neck of the woods. Basketball player. Enrolled at App State. Passed away yesterday. "Virtually nobody"? I don't think so.

    Oh my gosh. He attended Ledford High which is just down the road from where we live.

    Prayers for the family.

  2. #10382
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I guess my only concern would be that when people are swimming laps in freestyle, as they get further into the workout their breathing becomes deeper and deeper. If you and the guy in the lane next to you were both breathing at the time you passed one another in your respective lanes, you would be maybe 2 or 3 feet away? Ultimately, I think the risk is fairly low, especially if the pool is enclosed in a cavernous, well-ventilated space.

    I wouldn't touch anything that I didn't need to touch.
    Dry suit and scuba gear?
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  3. #10383
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Cluster of cases at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston linked to staff not following the guidelines appropriately, principally taking off their masks to eat (obviously) but eating in small groups without maintaining distancing, and staff being "lax" about wearing their goggles.

    This is not a good look for a renowned hospital, and I suspect it won't be the last hospital to have a similar cluster.

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/hospita...ail-definition

    The Brigham is getting the press, but they aren't even the only hospital in Boston with an outbreak. New England Baptist (located about a quarter mile away) is also dealing with some patient/staff infections. Tufts Med Center had one in the late spring. Baystate Health in Springfield and BI/Deaconess Plymouth both had outbreaks, one in July and one in September.

    Boston Globe article, might be behind a paywall.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/...ing-infection/

  4. #10384
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I haven't followed this thread as closely recently, but the impression I have gotten as of late is that "surface transmission" is apparently much less of a thing than initially assumed. Can someone more learned than me please verify this?
    I recall reading months back that the emphasis on surface transmission in the WHO guidance was very agenda driven. Particularly obvious on several conference calls as the WHO debated the guidance. Personally, I've tried to take comfort in rsvman's post regarding the matter from 3 months back. He reiterated that today. I'm still overly cautious as I've developed processes from early on that I continue to follow. But given that to date I haven't caught the virus, my brain is rewarding that caution.

  5. #10385
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    The Brigham is getting the press, but they aren't even the only hospital in Boston with an outbreak. New England Baptist (located about a quarter mile away) is also dealing with some patient/staff infections. Tufts Med Center had one in the late spring. Baystate Health in Springfield and BI/Deaconess Plymouth both had outbreaks, one in July and one in September.

    Boston Globe article, might be behind a paywall.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/09/...ing-infection/

    I found the part where they talked about drift interesting. How do you ease up on restrictions that have provided good results? Particularly, as "restriction" fatigue is likely to set in.

  6. #10386
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    New York City public schools started in-person learning today. Kids had the choice of hybrid (generally five out of ten days in school - 2 days one week, three days the next) or full remote. I think about 25% of our school opted for full remote. My kids start in-person later in the week, but we just got an e-mail from our elementary school principal that today went well. All families must attest each morning that the kid is healthy, there are limited kids per room, lunch at your desk, etc. Soon they will be using randomized testing of students and teachers using a Q-tip rather than digging deep in the nose - this requires students to opt-in, which is interesting.

    My kids go to a largely upper middle class school with a principal who worked non-stop all summer to make this work, as well as a very engaged group of parents, so I am as comfortable as possible with this. I am willing to take a bit of risk as I have found that remote learning just doesn't work well for kids in their first few years of school. I have no idea how this will work in the rest of the city and decisions are made across the whole city, not just for our school. But New York will be a huge test case. I am hoping we at least last a few weeks so the kids can develop relationships with their teachers, as the only saving grace for remote learning in the spring was that it was 2/3 of the way into the year, so kids and teachers knew each other well.

  7. #10387
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I guess my only concern would be that when people are swimming laps in freestyle, as they get further into the workout their breathing becomes deeper and deeper. If you and the guy in the lane next to you were both breathing at the time you passed one another in your respective lanes, you would be maybe 2 or 3 feet away? Ultimately, I think the risk is fairly low, especially if the pool is enclosed in a cavernous, well-ventilated space.

    I wouldn't touch anything that I didn't need to touch.
    Can't spork you, but thanks. That's what I thought, but it's more comforting to hear it from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

    It's a big aquatic center, where swimming events are held in normal times, and lots of fans, etc., so I think the risk is acceptable, if the facility manages the reservations and admissions competently (which remains to be seen).

  8. #10388
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    New York City public schools started in-person learning today. Kids had the choice of hybrid (generally five out of ten days in school - 2 days one week, three days the next) or full remote. I think about 25% of our school opted for full remote. My kids start in-person later in the week, but we just got an e-mail from our elementary school principal that today went well. All families must attest each morning that the kid is healthy, there are limited kids per room, lunch at your desk, etc. Soon they will be using randomized testing of students and teachers using a Q-tip rather than digging deep in the nose - this requires students to opt-in, which is interesting.

    My kids go to a largely upper middle class school with a principal who worked non-stop all summer to make this work, as well as a very engaged group of parents, so I am as comfortable as possible with this. I am willing to take a bit of risk as I have found that remote learning just doesn't work well for kids in their first few years of school. I have no idea how this will work in the rest of the city and decisions are made across the whole city, not just for our school. But New York will be a huge test case. I am hoping we at least last a few weeks so the kids can develop relationships with their teachers, as the only saving grace for remote learning in the spring was that it was 2/3 of the way into the year, so kids and teachers knew each other well.

    Ugh, saw this not long after reading your post:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #10389
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    I recall reading months back that the emphasis on surface transmission in the WHO guidance was very agenda driven. Particularly obvious on several conference calls as the WHO debated the guidance. Personally, I've tried to take comfort in rsvman's post regarding the matter from 3 months back. He reiterated that today. I'm still overly cautious as I've developed processes from early on that I continue to follow. But given that to date I haven't caught the virus, my brain is rewarding that caution.
    To me, there is a lot of voodoo going on fighting surface transmission. Yes, it's a genuine concern..but when I see airline crews fogging entire cabins, the first thought that comes to mind is "great, so what if the guy sitting directly behind you, or next to you, happens to have The Corvid, how much good will that spraying do you?" Seems designed to get a very false sense of security. No wonder most people won't fly for the time being.

  10. #10390
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    To me, there is a lot of voodoo going on fighting surface transmission. Yes, it's a genuine concern..but when I see airline crews fogging entire cabins, the first thought that comes to mind is "great, so what if the guy sitting directly behind you, or next to you, happens to have The Corvid, how much good will that spraying do you?" Seems designed to get a very false sense of security. No wonder most people won't fly for the time being.
    I would be curious to know the opinions of those in the know regarding air travel.

  11. #10391
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    To me, there is a lot of voodoo going on fighting surface transmission. Yes, it's a genuine concern..but when I see airline crews fogging entire cabins, the first thought that comes to mind is "great, so what if the guy sitting directly behind you, or next to you, happens to have The Corvid, how much good will that spraying do you?" Seems designed to get a very false sense of security. No wonder most people won't fly for the time being.
    Sanitation theater, in other words.

  12. #10392
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    More on Chad Dorrill, now from the New York Times. This makes me very sad, and very frightened:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/u...oTsAcZw0xUN3J8
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  13. #10393
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    To me, there is a lot of voodoo going on fighting surface transmission. Yes, it's a genuine concern..but when I see airline crews fogging entire cabins, the first thought that comes to mind is "great, so what if the guy sitting directly behind you, or next to you, happens to have The Corvid, how much good will that spraying do you?" Seems designed to get a very false sense of security. No wonder most people won't fly for the time being.
    I agree completely with this thought. It's basically the same issue I have with the call for more testing. First, tests are not 100% accurate (it's possible to have a false negative, with most Covid tests). Second, someone may have tested negative yesterday and then is unknowingly exposed to someone with Covid today and then becomes infected (but think that they are negative based on yesterday's test result and goes about their daily activities, infecting other people). It seems to me that "testing" really only works if every person is tested every day (and can get instantaneous, accurate results on the spot and will then quarantine with a positive test result).

  14. #10394
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Sanitation theater, in other words.
    Sorta like all of the covid theater.

  15. #10395
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Sorta like all of the covid theater.
    How's that now?

  16. #10396
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    More on Chad Dorrill, now from the New York Times. This makes me very sad, and very frightened:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/u...oTsAcZw0xUN3J8
    Every day the newspaper is filled with compelling stories, personal tragedies and enough drama to drain anyone's emotional reservoir. It's hard to predict what will hit you, what deserves at minimum a moment of quiet reflection. Chad Dorrill is now one of the names and faces that I will remember and associate with COVID-19. With last night's debate providing context, it's a bit infuriating that anyone would try to grandstand on this country's response to the pandemic. RIP Chad.
    "You will stop hearing the term 'Big Brother' because we will do it to ourselves." --Neil Postman

  17. #10397
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    Every day the newspaper is filled with compelling stories, personal tragedies and enough drama to drain anyone's emotional reservoir. It's hard to predict what will hit you, what deserves at minimum a moment of quiet reflection. Chad Dorrill is now one of the names and faces that I will remember and associate with COVID-19. With last night's debate providing context, it's a bit infuriating that anyone would try to grandstand on this country's response to the pandemic. RIP Chad.
    This one hits hard & super-close to home, literally (in the proper usage of that word). Although I do not know the Dorrills personally, they live in our development. I'm about 90% certain that one of my son's better friends from the junior/HS golf circuit was a teammate of Chad's on Ledford's high school basketball team. Just awful.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  18. #10398
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping William View Post
    More on Chad Dorrill, now from the New York Times. This makes me very sad, and very frightened:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/u...oTsAcZw0xUN3J8
    Very sad story. Anyone who says young people don't get ill needs to rethink their position.

  19. #10399
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Hah! Duke over UNC in the Guardian

    The Guardian has an article comparing Duke, with its test-everyone approach, vs. UNC, who is only doing volumntary testing.

    The headline says it all:
    "Two universities welcomed students on campus. Only one tested for Covid-19"

    But there's more:
    Since the beginning of August, Duke has performed more than 58,000 Covid tests. Seventy-five have come back positive.
    Compared with UNC:
    Since the pandemic began, 1,138 students and 72 employees have tested positive. The university has performed a total of 4,612 tests.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  20. #10400
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The Guardian has an article comparing Duke, with its test-everyone approach, vs. UNC, who is only doing volumntary testing.

    The headline says it all:
    "Two universities welcomed students on campus. Only one tested for Covid-19"

    But there's more:

    Compared with UNC:
    Hmmm. Now which one of these two universities has a highly rated school of public health?

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