PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[budwom]

That is a good point. I think we will bring some, but also Maritime Market will stock the fridge before you get there. They charge 20% for it, but I still think we are going to do it. In the context of all the expenses, I don't think that one matters much.

When you have brought food over on the ferry, how did you pack it up so it survived the containers they use?

Howard

I will admit that I avoid the "on" season at the OBs like the plague, preferring to come on shoulder or off seasons...too much humanity otherwise...But on the few occasions I've been there in the summer, the lines at the groceries have been daunting.

[sparv]

Another church opening here...the one we attend. Our county is approved for phase 2 re-opening, which includes places of worship, with restrictions of course. Each family s assigned one week per month - we got the 4th Sunday. I hate to wait, but it does give the church the chance to make adjustments to their procedures if needed.

Our church originally said masks "will be available to those who want one," and then (after I objected, probably others too) revised that to "masks required at the 7:30 worship." Since that is when I go anyway, it's a huge relief. Still concerned, of course, about the possibility of a wave of infections arising from the other two services.

I know some here don't understand the need for churches to reopen, or understand why people would take the risk of attending. All I can say is, over the last two months I've discovered that life without in-person worship isn't really very tenable. For me.

I'm a member of my church council, and although churches in our state can reopen, we still have no plans to in the near future. As a council member, I have heard from many members who are pained by the lack of in-person worship. My family is not itching to get back just yet, but I understand those who are. I also understand that singing and other elements of a service pose increased risk (which may or may not be able to be managed). I belong to a fairly orthodox Christian denomination where the eucharist is as important to your continued spiritual life as "real" food is to your physical body. I wonder if people who are not religious or who are opposed to opening churches view church as an experience similar to attending a concert or movie that can be done as easily and effectively on demand from your living room.

[Tripping William]

That is a good point. I think we will bring some, but also Maritime Market will stock the fridge before you get there. They charge 20% for it, but I still think we are going to do it. In the context of all the expenses, I don't think that one matters much.

When you have brought food over on the ferry, how did you pack it up so it survived the containers they use?

Howard

We have packed ours in a big cooler that we then label as belonging to us.

[Phredd3]

I wonder if people who are not religious or who are opposed to opening churches view church as an experience similar to attending a concert or movie that can be done as easily and effectively on demand from your living room.

I am not religious, but as a musician who has performed at religious ceremonies, I would liken the church experience more to the experience of performing a concert than to attending one. While even for those attending a concert, ideally there is more to the experience than just listening, performing as part of a group heightens your overall awareness in a sense. In my experience, that is true of a religious ceremony, as well. The atmosphere of the place and the sharing of the experience is a large part of why those events are important, at least as I perceive them from my admittedly third-person point of view.

[CameronDuke]

Worldometer indicates over 110,000 deaths in the USA now due to COVID-19.

[MChambers]

Interesting article in Vox on why Georgia's early reopening hasn't yet led to a resurgence of cases: https://www.vox.com/2020/6/4/2126776...es-deaths-data

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

The case trend for Wake County is bending the wrong #%$@‘ing way!

Why can’t people wear a frickin mask?!?

Wake County COVID-19 Information.jpg

[bundabergdevil]

I'm a member of my church council, and although churches in our state can reopen, we still have no plans to in the near future. As a council member, I have heard from many members who are pained by the lack of in-person worship. My family is not itching to get back just yet, but I understand those who are. I also understand that singing and other elements of a service pose increased risk (which may or may not be able to be managed). I belong to a fairly orthodox Christian denomination where the eucharist is as important to your continued spiritual life as "real" food is to your physical body. I wonder if people who are not religious or who are opposed to opening churches view church as an experience similar to attending a concert or movie that can be done as easily and effectively on demand from your living room.

I'm not really sure that people are opposed to opening churches or view them as an experience similar to attending a concert. In my state, the Governor issued a set of criteria for what constituted an essential and non-essential business (or other organization) during the stay-at-home orders, offered an application to appeal your non-essential categorization, and then applied a red, yellow, and green phase for all state counties. As counties moved from red to green, certain business and other organizations also moved from closed to allowed to open with certain restrictions in place.

There was a huge outcry in the business community, confusion about the criteria for what constituted essential and non-essential, and perceived unfairness and bad logic in the appeals and phased reopening process. That was inevitable. The state did its best to assign risk to various types of operations and "essential-ness" but any categorization was always going to be wanting because the types of organizations are just too diverse to fit perfectly into categories so everyone shouted their uniqueness and how little sense the orders made from the rooftops.

My personal sentiment is that governors did their best to assign risk to churches, too, and it had nothing to do with religion, just risk. Churches are just like the businesses crying foul in my state, as far as I'm concerned. Many of them are probably right, the system applied by the governor didn't always make sense. Personally, I'm willing to give some leeway to my Governor because I think he is operating in good faith to the best of his ability but there was ZERO chance he - or any other governor - was ever going to implement a plan that made everyone in the state say, "Nailed it!"

What I'm saying is churches are just another type of organization/business that is crying mistreatment right now. "Religiousness" has nothing to do with it. Many of them have great cases, the governors haven't nailed it, but I don't think imperfection is discrimination.

[sparv]

[/B][/I]

What I'm saying is churches are just another type of organization/business that is crying mistreatment right now. "Religiousness" has nothing to do with it. Many of them have great cases, the governors haven't nailed it, but I don't think imperfection is discrimination.

I agree with you that everyone is doing the best that they can to define essential vs nonessential, and I'm also inclined to view the efforts of government officials at all levels with a great deal of compassion and grace. I don't necessarily think churches are being discriminated against. I do think it highlights a certain unavoidable imprecision about what constitutes an essential business that you mention. For example, an art supply store can be considered essential because of it provides the supplies for art therapy. Mayor DeBlasio was asked about protests being allowed versus places of worship remaining closed. He responded that these were two separate questions because of a history of discrimination that protesters are responding to. My intent isn't to veer into the political, but rather to clarify my point, which is that "essential" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone who is not religious, church worship may be very much considered inessential, especially if services can be live streamed into one's home. Someone who is religious may disagree.

Very interesting that your state government allowed for an appeals process. That seems like it would be a major headache, not to mention a ton of paperwork.

[bundabergdevil]

I agree with you that everyone is doing the best that they can to define essential vs nonessential, and I'm also inclined to view the efforts of government officials at all levels with a great deal of compassion and grace. I don't necessarily think churches are being discriminated against. I do think it highlights a certain unavoidable imprecision about what constitutes an essential business that you mention. For example, an art supply store can be considered essential because of it provides the supplies for art therapy. Mayor DeBlasio was asked about protests being allowed versus places of worship remaining closed. He responded that these were two separate questions because of a history of discrimination that protesters are responding to. My intent isn't to veer into the political, but rather to clarify my point, which is that "essential" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone who is not religious, church worship may be very much considered inessential, especially if services can be live streamed into one's home. Someone who is religious may disagree.

Very interesting that your state government allowed for an appeals process. That seems like it would be a major headache, not to mention a ton of paperwork.

Agree on bold 1. I think most of the business, churches, and other organizations taking issue with the imprecision or outright bad logic have a point but it sounds like we both agree a certain amount leniency should be afforded so long as we think the state governments are operating in good faith. There's HOPEFULLY going to be time when we get through this to make better, smarter plans for the next pandemic (hopefully far, far in the future).

Agree on bold 2 and on your general point about the faithful viewing church service, taking the sacrament, or what have you as essential. I guess I revert to bold 1. I mean, I was considered non-essential at work, which is pretty deflating! All it meant was I worked from home...

Yes, you hit the nail on the head with bold 3. AP News article that provides a nice overview of the, ahem, difficulties caused by the waiver process.

[jwillfan]

The case trend for Wake County is bending the wrong #%$@‘ing way!

Why can’t people wear a frickin mask?!?

I am most interested in watching for an increase in cases and hospitalizations starting next week June 8th - 2 weeks from Memorial Day weekend and the Alamance speedway gatherings - and the week after, June 15th, 2 weeks after the George Floyd protests. Will be an interesting test

[DukieInKansas]

I agree with you that everyone is doing the best that they can to define essential vs nonessential, and I'm also inclined to view the efforts of government officials at all levels with a great deal of compassion and grace. I don't necessarily think churches are being discriminated against. I do think it highlights a certain unavoidable imprecision about what constitutes an essential business that you mention. For example, an art supply store can be considered essential because of it provides the supplies for art therapy. Mayor DeBlasio was asked about protests being allowed versus places of worship remaining closed. He responded that these were two separate questions because of a history of discrimination that protesters are responding to. My intent isn't to veer into the political, but rather to clarify my point, which is that "essential" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone who is not religious, church worship may be very much considered inessential, especially if services can be live streamed into one's home. Someone who is religious may disagree.

Very interesting that your state government allowed for an appeals process. That seems like it would be a major headache, not to mention a ton of paperwork.

[/I][/B]

Agree on bold 1. I think most of the business, churches, and other organizations taking issue with the imprecision or outright bad logic have a point but it sounds like we both agree a certain amount leniency should be afforded so long as we think the state governments are operating in good faith. There's HOPEFULLY going to be time when we get through this to make better, smarter plans for the next pandemic (hopefully far, far in the future).

Agree on bold 2 and on your general point about the faithful viewing church service, taking the sacrament, or what have you as essential. I guess I revert to bold 1. I mean, I was considered non-essential at work, which is pretty deflating! All it meant was I worked from home...

Yes, you hit the nail on the head with bold 3. AP News article that provides a nice overview of the, ahem, difficulties caused by the waiver process.

No way they (any level of government) was going to make all people happy - not going to happen regarding any government decision. My church actually cancelled services on the Sunday prior to the metro area closing. The initial stay at home order was issued by the 5 counties and major city - re-opening was not done as a whole. When KCMO started opening businesses using 10/10/10, as mentioned in a prior post, they didn't allow churches to follow this guideline. They could still only have 10 people or less. I felt that was unfair.

I am on the other side of the state line and I don't know when we are going to open. The largest Methodist church has 5 campuses in the metro area. Currently, they aren't planning on opening until July 12th and that may get pushed back to August 1st. My co-worker's church had in person worship Sunday with a limited number of people allowed to attend and everyone sitting socially distanced. Although I want to get back to "normal", I'm not sure when that will happen - I care too much about my church family to want to see anyone put at risk.

I'm glad none of these decisions rest all on me.

[Indoor66]

The case trend for Wake County is bending the wrong #%$@‘ing way!

Why can’t people wear a frickin mask?!?

Wake County COVID-19 Information.jpg

Is this a reflection of more testing discovering existing cases rather than a surge in new cases?

[Phredd3]

Is this a reflection of more testing discovering existing cases rather than a surge in new cases?

More testing means today's data is better. But it also means the data we had before is less good. It's very hard to look at a rise in cases and attribute it solely to a rise in testing. Were we missing cases before that increased testing is getting to now, or were the cases just not there to be found, or is it some of each? I would submit that the last one is most probable. Either way, we know we have more total cases to worry about, so it's best to proceed with some caution.

[OldPhiKap]

More testing means today's data is better. But it also means the data we had before is less good. It's very hard to look at a rise in cases and attribute it solely to a rise in testing.

It would seem to me that hospitalization rates would be the best indicator of how pervasive, and potent, the virus is. While it is somewhat of a lagging indicator of spread, it does mark the point where the rubber meets the road no matter how good or bad testing may be.

Is there a site with that info by state?

[bundabergdevil]

Very unexpected job figures reported by Labor this AM. Predictions had been a 7Mish decline, reported was 2.5M addition. Unemployment rated dropped.

[MChambers]

That is, people who have covid-19 for a very long time. Interesting, if sobering, article by Ed Yong in the Atlantic. Many of these people are less than 50 years old and have tested negative for covid-19, but pretty clearly have it, which suggests that the number of cases is underreported. Lots of neurological symptoms:

As many people reported “brain fogs” and concentration challenges as coughs or fevers. Some have experienced hallucinations, delirium, short-term memory loss, or strange vibrating sensations when they touch surfaces. Others are likely having problems with their sympathetic nervous system, which controls unconscious processes like heartbeats and breathing: They’ll be out of breath even when their oxygen level is normal, or experience what feel like heart attacks even though EKG readings and chest X-rays are clear. These symptoms wax, wane, and warp over time. “It really is a grab bag,” said Davis, who is a co-author of the Body Politic survey. “Every day you wake up and you might have a different symptom.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...months/612679/

[howardlander]

Very unexpected job figures reported by Labor this AM. Predictions had been a 7Mish decline, reported was 2.5M addition. Unemployment rated dropped.

Very unexpected for sure. I don't believe it myself, but I'm sure some people will suspect the numbers are cooked because of the upcoming election. I think it's more likely that the stimulus package had enough of the desired effects (maintaining the demand curve) so that employers were ready to rehire on short notice.

[sagegrouse]

Very unexpected for sure. I don't believe it myself, but I'm sure some people will suspect the numbers are cooked because of the upcoming election. I think it's more likely that the stimulus package had enough of the desired effects (maintaining the demand curve) so that employers were ready to rehire on short notice.

Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics is the most reputable of the economic agencies.

[jv001]

The case trend for Wake County is bending the wrong #%$@‘ing way!

Why can’t people wear a frickin mask?!?

Wake County COVID-19 Information.jpg

And Governor Cooper had a mask on walking with some of the protestors(non-violent) but then took it off and let it hang around his neck. I guess he's trying to let us know his latest Phase is safe.