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  1. #5841
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    One thing I never realized was how hard it is to wear a mask in the heat. Yesterday I was out and about and it was 109 here in Vegas. At a few points, I had to leave somewhat crowded areas just to get to a place of isolation so I could take off my mask and breathe.
    Yeah. The masks are going to become even more unpleasant over the next four months.

  2. #5842
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I want to point out why certain forces with a -- how do I put this? -- "narrative agenda" are making it difficult for people to do the right thing during this crisis.

    Here is the headline from a prominent article on Fox News' website this morning: WHO guidance: Healthy people should wear masks only when 'taking care of' coronavirus patients

    I know many people don't bother to read more than the headline of an article, but if they read the first graph it states in unequivocal terms that you do not need to wear a mask unless you are actively taking care of someone who is exhibiting symptoms.



    I mean, there you have it. The world's leading body saying don't wear a mask to prevent the spread; don't wear a mask to go shopping; you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a COVID-sick loved one. If you were even thinking about not wearing a mask, this would be all the proof you would need to scoff at the health experts in the US who say otherwise.

    As I said, most people only read the headline. A few more read the first graph. It is a much smaller percentage who read even further into the body of the story to discover that the advice being cited by Fox from the WHO comes from a video posted on the WHO website IN FEBRUARY (the Fox article says it was posted in March, but I found the original video and it is marked as posted on 2/29).

    Our understanding of the virus, how it is spread, and how it can be contained has advanced light years since late February. But, here is Fox touting it as if it is some new revelation and using it to encourage folks to not wear masks. As most of you know, I am a journalist and this article is journalistic malpractice.

    And, as you can probably imagine, many other outlets see it on Fox and just parrot what it has to say, often with disastrous results. The NY Post has copied the Fox story onto their website without changing a word, further spreading this misleading story. Here is a conservative talk radio website that reports the story and omits the fact that the video is months old. It even says the video was posted on the WHO site today. I am sure there are plenty of talk radio talking heads who are speaking about this on their programs and I have no doubt the story (headline only because who clicks and reads the whole thing?!?!) is making its way around Twitter and Facebook today.

    I don't know how we, as a society, fight this kind of misinformation. There are millions of Americans who will see this headline today and see it as some new guidance they should follow. Wearing a mask is uncomfortable. Here is a story that allows you to take the easy way and leave your mask behind as you embark out into the world. Woo hoo! Let's go party!!

    I discovered all this when a DBR COVID-skeptic emailed the article to me this morning, gleefully encouraging me to post it here to counter some folks who refer to mask skeptics as "covidiots." So, I took a look at discovered how terribly misleading the story was. I have followed his advice though and posted the article... but with the necessary context for all of you to understand why it actually is an important story... though not the story he expected it to be.

    Sigh... I want to be clear that I take no joy in this. I just want everyone to be safe and for us to beat the !@#^@&^! out of this virus. Sadly, I think misleading stories like this one make that less and less likely.
    Yeah. I heard this parrotted on the radio just this morning. Sad, sorry state of affairs.

  3. #5843
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Fair enough, but I hadn't seen a depiction of it where the numbers are grouped by state's responses (re-opened, partial re-open, shutdown). I suppose someone could do that manually. In all of this, though, the numbers are HUGELY skewed by NY. That's why the "region re-open" group has seen a steady decline because NYS is partially re-opened (outside of NYC) and has seen a precipitous decline.
    yeah, that's true...one of the problems now is that "opening up" means something different in almost every state...as for NY (not to mention CT, MA,NH,etc) we're pretty puckered here right now, we have literally no one in our hospitals, but are surrounded by states that have mucho cases...and when people start pouring in (and we do like their tourist dollars) how are we going to manage that?

    I think it's going to be a crazy summer...

  4. #5844
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonandblue View Post
    It is surprising the WHO hasn't been more directly pro-mask given what we've learned. Or, maybe I'm just not looking online in the right places.
    I'm not Jason, but as far as I can tell, the WHO's guidance on mask use has not been changed. The WHO's original guidance was based on a worldwide supply shortage, when the issue was that everyone in the population acquiring masks would cause a shortage for health care and other essential workers. But this was back when the only masks under discussion were the N95 type, and the notion that plain cloth or disposable masks could have almost as much preventative effect, especially in protecting others from the mask wearer, had not really been studied or understood. Nevertheless, as best I have been able to find, the WHO guidance has never been updated to reflect current knowledge.

    I can't imagine why not.

  5. #5845
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I want to point out why certain forces with a -- how do I put this? -- "narrative agenda" are making it difficult for people to do the right thing during this crisis.

    Here is the headline from a prominent article on Fox News' website this morning: WHO guidance: Healthy people should wear masks only when 'taking care of' coronavirus patients

    I know many people don't bother to read more than the headline of an article, but if they read the first graph it states in unequivocal terms that you do not need to wear a mask unless you are actively taking care of someone who is exhibiting symptoms.

    ...
    Dealing with this issue on a pickleball forum. My point:

    "I understand that masks are generally ineffective in protecting the wearer of the mask. They ARE effective in limiting the expulsion of viral particles into the air, which protects others. Kind of like covering your mouth when you sneeze or cough. What is wrong with that?"

    The response:

    "They [masks] are effective based on what facts? Im not turning the argument. its the same argument. In or out its a chain link fence. Coughing into your elbow provides as much protection as wearing these masks. So if people keep distance and cover their cough by anymeans, whats the difference? If you believe the mask is more effective, its not proven by any reliable science or record of facts. So you can choose to wear it, but your beliefs don't truncate others right to choose and live their lives freely. Death is certain. How we choose to face it is a personal choice. Some people don't buy into the hype. Cough in your elbow when your around me or wear your mask. Either is the same per the realiable facts. Short of that couresty you don't owe anyone a damn thing."


    Anyone have a quick site to support the effectiveness of masks limiting the spread of the virus?

  6. #5846
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I think it's going to be a crazy summer...
    If the predictions of a second wave are near correct, it's going to be a cruel summer. Cue Bananarama!



    Now I dare ya to get that out of your head the rest of the night.

  7. #5847
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Dealing with this issue on a pickleball forum. My point:

    "I understand that masks are generally ineffective in protecting the wearer of the mask. They ARE effective in limiting the expulsion of viral particles into the air, which protects others. Kind of like covering your mouth when you sneeze or cough. What is wrong with that?"

    The response:

    "They [masks] are effective based on what facts? Im not turning the argument. its the same argument. In or out its a chain link fence. Coughing into your elbow provides as much protection as wearing these masks. So if people keep distance and cover their cough by anymeans, whats the difference? If you believe the mask is more effective, its not proven by any reliable science or record of facts. So you can choose to wear it, but your beliefs don't truncate others right to choose and live their lives freely. Death is certain. How we choose to face it is a personal choice. Some people don't buy into the hype. Cough in your elbow when your around me or wear your mask. Either is the same per the realiable facts. Short of that couresty you don't owe anyone a damn thing."


    Anyone have a quick site to support the effectiveness of masks limiting the spread of the virus?
    If you want to use the chain link fence analogy:
    (From another forum I visit)
    “ And, some information for you: the masks are intended to block droplets of moisture containing viruses, not viruses themselves. A chain link fence can keep most fleas out of your yard, because fleas ride on animals that can't get through the fence.”

  8. #5848
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    So you can choose to wear it, but your beliefs don't truncate others right to choose and live their lives freely. Death is certain. How we choose to face it is a personal choice. Some people don't buy into the hype. Cough in your elbow when your around me or wear your mask. Either is the same per the realiable facts. Short of that couresty you don't owe anyone a damn thing.
    Who is the author of this commentary?

  9. #5849
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Who is the author of this commentary?
    It's just a post from a forum like this. Regular people for all walks of life. It's a simplified explanation of how masks can slow the spread. I can PM you a link because although civil the forum can get political.

  10. #5850
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    It's just a post from a forum like this. Regular people for all walks of life. It's a simplified explanation of how masks can slow the spread. I can PM you a link because although civil the forum can get political.
    That (PM) would be great, thanks.

  11. #5851
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Dealing with this issue on a pickleball forum. My point:

    "I understand that masks are generally ineffective in protecting the wearer of the mask. They ARE effective in limiting the expulsion of viral particles into the air, which protects others. Kind of like covering your mouth when you sneeze or cough. What is wrong with that?"

    The response:

    "They [masks] are effective based on what facts? Im not turning the argument. its the same argument. In or out its a chain link fence. Coughing into your elbow provides as much protection as wearing these masks. So if people keep distance and cover their cough by anymeans, whats the difference? If you believe the mask is more effective, its not proven by any reliable science or record of facts. So you can choose to wear it, but your beliefs don't truncate others right to choose and live their lives freely. Death is certain. How we choose to face it is a personal choice. Some people don't buy into the hype. Cough in your elbow when your around me or wear your mask. Either is the same per the realiable facts. Short of that couresty you don't owe anyone a damn thing."


    Anyone have a quick site to support the effectiveness of masks limiting the spread of the virus?
    One of the obvious problems with his argument is that the virus isn't only excreted when you cough or sneeze. It can also be excreted by talking or laughing. So coughing into one's elbow won't prevent spread from those other means.

    The other, more obvious issue is that although he certainly has the right to choose for himself how he wants to face death and how much danger he wants to take on for himself, that right does not extend to others. The pandemic isn't about him. It's about all of us.

    I think the last part is the sticking point for a lot of people. They live such self-centered lives that when they think about the pandemic, they can only see it through a single lens: what effect does this have on me? People who are that ego-centric are likely never going to understand face covering, even if you provided them with scientific evidence.

  12. #5852
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    One of the obvious problems with his argument is that the virus isn't only excreted when you cough or sneeze. It can also be excreted by talking or laughing. So coughing into one's elbow won't prevent spread from those other means.

    The other, more obvious issue is that although he certainly has the right to choose for himself how he wants to face death and how much danger he wants to take on for himself, that right does not extend to others. The pandemic isn't about him. It's about all of us.

    I think the last part is the sticking point for a lot of people. They live such self-centered lives that when they think about the pandemic, they can only see it through a single lens: what effect does this have on me? People who are that ego-centric are likely never going to understand face covering, even if you provided them with scientific evidence.
    A wiseacre remark, but has anyone ever figured out how to "sneeze" into your elbow so that particles don't spread. Sneezing is by far the most powerful emitter of the coronavirus -- many times worse than coughing.

    Per NY Times -- "A single cough can propel about 3,000 respiratory droplets, while sneezing can generate as many as 40,000."
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  13. #5853
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    A person who attended the crowded Lake of the Ozarks festivities over Memorial Day weekend tests positive for COVID-19:

    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...0e8f52bc5.html

    Not surprising at all.
    Bob Green

  14. #5854
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    A person who attended the crowded Lake of the Ozarks festivities over Memorial Day weekend tests positive for COVID-19:

    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...0e8f52bc5.html

    Not surprising at all.
    "I don't know what you do," Missouri Gov. Mike Parson said of Memorial Day weekend parties at the Ozarks during a Friday news conference. "The reality is, at some point, people have to be responsible for their actions."

  15. #5855
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    The Virginia Department of Health (VDH) reported 43,611 total positive coronavirus tests throughout the state Saturday - a 1,078 case jump since Friday. It’s the third day in a row with over 1,000 new positive results.

    More testing likely means more positive cases identified. But the number of positive cases is still making me want to stay home unless something I need to do is essential. It seems like positive cases jumping by 1,000+ daily will be a normal occurrence throughout the summer. The virus is definitely still out there and prevalent and spreading rapidly.

  16. #5856
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    I'm still paying more attention to hospital capacity than to positive tests - that's what flattening the curve was all about after all.

    Here in Mont Co, MD, (just outside DC - and NIH central) we're in one of the country's hotspots. MoCo has a dashboard showing utilization of acute care and icu beds. I want to know they have space for me if I need it!

    Edit to add excess deaths...

    -jk

  17. #5857
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    I'm still paying more attention to hospital capacity than to positive tests - that's what flattening the curve was all about after all.

    Here in Mont Co, MD, (just outside DC - and NIH central) we're in one of the country's hotspots. MoCo has a dashboard showing utilization of acute care and icu beds. I want to know they have space for me if I need it!

    -jk
    and that's why NC isn't doing as well as it claims to be, more cases in the hospital than ever before.

  18. #5858
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Yeah. I heard this parrotted on the radio just this morning. Sad, sorry state of affairs.
    I wonder how FoxNews will square Trump’s press conference announcing attempts at severing ties with the WHO with their article from the day before recommending outdated WHO guidance over CDC recommendations?

  19. #5859
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Dealing with this issue on a pickleball forum. My point:

    "I understand that masks are generally ineffective in protecting the wearer of the mask. They ARE effective in limiting the expulsion of viral particles into the air, which protects others. Kind of like covering your mouth when you sneeze or cough. What is wrong with that?"

    The response:

    "They [masks] are effective based on what facts? Im not turning the argument. its the same argument. In or out its a chain link fence. Coughing into your elbow provides as much protection as wearing these masks. So if people keep distance and cover their cough by anymeans, whats the difference? If you believe the mask is more effective, its not proven by any reliable science or record of facts. So you can choose to wear it, but your beliefs don't truncate others right to choose and live their lives freely. Death is certain. How we choose to face it is a personal choice. Some people don't buy into the hype. Cough in your elbow when your around me or wear your mask. Either is the same per the realiable facts. Short of that couresty you don't owe anyone a damn thing."


    Anyone have a quick site to support the effectiveness of masks limiting the spread of the virus?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    If you want to use the chain link fence analogy:
    (From another forum I visit)
    “ And, some information for you: the masks are intended to block droplets of moisture containing viruses, not viruses themselves. A chain link fence can keep most fleas out of your yard, because fleas ride on animals that can't get through the fence.”

    Thanks for the suggestion! This is how I responded:

    "Masks help prevent the spread of Covid! https://health.clevelandclinic.org/h...-wearing-a.../ The virus is carried in fluid droplets expelled when we breath, talk, cough, sneeze. These droplets are captured by basic cloth masks when the user exhales, and the virus trapped in the mask. Simple, rational science. Why is there any dispute? To use your chain link fence analogy, the fence prevents fleas from leaving the yard because it contains the animals that carry the fleas."

  20. #5860
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    I wonder how FoxNews will square Trump’s press conference announcing attempts at severing ties with the WHO with their article from the day before recommending outdated WHO guidance over CDC recommendations?
    They're not in the squaring business so doubt it's even on their radar.

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