PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[Furniture]

That seems like apples to oranges to me. US has a population density of 91.9 per square mile spread over 331,499,281 square miles. UK has a population density of 275 per square mile spread over 93,630 square miles. Quite a difference. Much more open space in the US - between those people.

I agree with the population differences of course but deaths are still proportionally lower in the UK and masks will still be required into June. Your point about the population density is good. I hope that’s part of the equation here. Personally I still feel it’s too soon.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Our company’s Phase 1 return is 20% capacity at corporate HQ beginning in July. That’s plan today. It could obviously change. Subsequent phases as appropriate. Flexible work arrangement discussions must be had with managers. Vaccines not mandated but strongly encouraged.

That’s about what we know for now.

At this point, I think that a lot of corporate offices won't hit the "encouraged" to return phase until the fall. The timing works well:

1) Though there are a lot more camps and such open this summer than last summer, many parents are still scrambling for what to do with their kids
2) Vaccination rates are up and infection rates are down, but will likely be in an even better place this fall
3) School will hopefully be fairly normal this fall (knock on wood) so it will be a lot easier for parents to return

I work for a very large bank in NY. We have not gotten a lot of detail. I have gotten the impression that they want those for whom in person really matters (trading desk employees) to start coming back, but the rest of us won't be for a while, and when we do, it will be pretty flexible and likely only a few days a week so they can limit capacity. I am fairly new at the bank but I think we moved to more of an open floor plan model a few years ago, so they don't want to rush back to 100% attendance since people would be on top of each other. And they also don't want people cramming into elevators, cafeteria, etc.

[camion]

In another back toward normal tidbit Furman University, here in Greenville SC, will once again be open to the public (outdoors only) beginning today, May 17.

I plan to take a walk around Furman lake this afternoon to celebrate.

[budwom]

In another back toward normal tidbit Furman University, here in Greenville SC, will once again be open to the public (outdoors only) beginning today, May 17.

I plan to take a walk around Furman lake this afternoon to celebrate.

Be careful! My understanding is that they have Purple Paladins all over that campus...

[MChambers]

Here is an interesting story in Wired about some determined scientists who looked into the whole aerosol question for covid-19 and showed that the WHO and other authorities were wrong: https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=e656772d6 4-briefing-dy-20210517&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-e656772d64-45240382

[Phredd3]

Here is an interesting story in Wired about some determined scientists who looked into the whole aerosol question for covid-19 and showed that the WHO and other authorities were wrong: https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=e656772d6 4-briefing-dy-20210517&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-e656772d64-45240382

The long link didn't work for me, so I munged it so it would.

[Phredd3]

Here is an interesting story in Wired about some determined scientists who looked into the whole aerosol question for covid-19 and showed that the WHO and other authorities were wrong: https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=e656772d6 4-briefing-dy-20210517&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-e656772d64-45240382

The long link didn't work for me, so I munged it so it would.

Long article, so I'm too late to edit the post above, but I recommend the article when you have some time. It's a pretty well-written tale about some of the more unusual ways science can get screwed up...and then, importantly, corrected.

[howardlander]

The new CDC guidance is lovely in theory. But it seems to me that it is quite problematic in actual practice.

Another way to phrase this is that what the CDC has said is good science but bad public policy.

[cato]

Another way to phrase this is that what the CDC has said is good science but bad public policy.

At least their starting to try to get one of those two things right.

[YmoBeThere]

Talked to my sis in the UK today. The UK is down to 7 deaths per day and they still maintain a very cautious approach to covid. We are at 500 deaths a day and we are all systems go back to normal apparently. It just doesn’t feel right to me. I am head of a team of about 100+ engineers. I know that many of them are extremely concerned. I also know that there are a lot of forces in my company to have people back at work. So far the company has said that they are evaluating the latest CDC guidelines. I am interested to know of other peoples thoughts on returning to work and being in close contact through office seating and small meeting rooms etc.

I would highly recommend the Wired magazine article that MChambers and subsequently phredd3 linked. I would challenge your engineers(assuming they are not the software kind) to make the implications real. One analog I've heard for aerosols is smoke(many people have observed cigarette smoke). I can think of several ways to use a smoke stick and a video camera to make it real and understandable.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Sorry it is likely behind the paywall, but this article summarizes some interesting research bucketing the people who aren't getting vaccinated, and offers some basic strategies for approaching them. A large percentage of them aren't changing there minds, but information like this might help to get an incremental amount, and every little bit helps. I really have a hard time understanding the "Cost Anxious" group (they are worried about the time and expense, even though it is free) but that also seems like the easiest one to solve.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...gtype=Homepage

[budwom]

off to several stores to see what the deal with masks is...Gov says it's ok to not wear one if you've been vaxxed, but let's see what the stores are doing...

[LasVegas]

Sorry it is likely behind the paywall, but this article summarizes some interesting research bucketing the people who aren't getting vaccinated, and offers some basic strategies for approaching them. A large percentage of them aren't changing there minds, but information like this might help to get an incremental amount, and every little bit helps. I really have a hard time understanding the "Cost Anxious" group (they are worried about the time and expense, even though it is free) but that also seems like the easiest one to solve.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...gtype=Homepage

It’s not free if you have to take unpaid time off from work. Or find a babysitter for your kids on an off day. My employer not only gives paid time off for the vaccine, they also give paid time off for vaccine symptoms. I’m a lucky one.

I went to target, Costco, and chipotle yesterday and they all had signs up that basically said mask free if vaccinated. My wife and I took our masks off along with about 60% of other people in these stores.

[aimo]

It’s not free if you have to take unpaid time off from work. Or find a babysitter for your kids on an off day. My employer not only gives paid time off for the vaccine, they also give paid time off for vaccine symptoms. I’m a lucky one.

I went to target, Costco, and chipotle yesterday and they all had signs up that basically said mask free if vaccinated. My wife and I took our masks off along with about 60% of other people in these stores.

My issue with this is how many of those 60% were NOT vaccinated? I know I have had Pfizer and am ~95% covered for SERIOUS illness, but I do not want COVID at any level.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

It’s not free if you have to take unpaid time off from work. Or find a babysitter for your kids on an off day. My employer not only gives paid time off for the vaccine, they also give paid time off for vaccine symptoms. I’m a lucky one.

I went to target, Costco, and chipotle yesterday and they all had signs up that basically said mask free if vaccinated. My wife and I took our masks off along with about 60% of other people in these stores.

For the vast majority of the population, at some time over a few months they can find the time to get the vaccine if it means it will make them and their families safer. But I agree that there is a portion of the population for whom this can be a more difficult, hence the recommended solution of bringing the vaccines as close to these people as possible (even going to their homes if necessary) to eliminate that concern. I know that there are now programs to help the homebound by giving them the vaccine in their home (my friend's grandmother got this), so this just needs to be rolled out further. It is costly but worth it.

I don't mean to be confrontational, but you seem to repeatedly display this irrational absolute hatred of masks. They really aren't that big of an inconvenience. For example, if you go to Chipotle, you obviously take the mask off to eat. And if you now feel less of a need to race to put it back on after you are done, or choose not to do so at all, that's for you to decide. But you portray this image of someone who is unshackling them self from this huge burden when ceremonially taking off their mask. I personally will keep wearing mine in most indoor locations. You are free to do the opposite, and I won't judge.

[LasVegas]

I don't mean to be confrontational, but you seem to repeatedly display this irrational absolute hatred of masks. They really aren't that big of an inconvenience. For example, if you go to Chipotle, you obviously take the mask off to eat. And if you now feel less of a need to race to put it back on after you are done, or choose not to do so at all, that's for you to decide. But you portray this image of someone who is unshackling them self from this huge burden when ceremonially taking off their mask. I personally will keep wearing mine in most indoor locations. You are free to do the opposite, and I won't judge.

I don’t hate masks. I wore them everyday when I went back to bedside nursing to work on the COVID floor and I wore them every time I went anywhere outside of my home. My mask compliance has been 100% from the start of this thing but there is a point where you have to take them off eventually. I’ve said before I follow CDC guidelines and that’s what I did and what I wil continue to do. If the CDC says I can take my mask off, I will. If the cdc says I have to put it back on, I will. I try to always defer to the experts in the field. This is the same train of thought I used on my vaccine hesitant friends. They would say it was rushed and dangerous and then I would ask them how much experience they have in vaccine development. Zero! So they would rather trust their 0% experience/google degree than leading experts in the field.

[Bluedog]

My issue with this is how many of those 60% were NOT vaccinated? I know I have had Pfizer and am ~95% covered for SERIOUS illness, but I do not want COVID at any level.

Just to clarify, the 95% is not for serious illness. It is for getting COVID at all. It's been nearly 100% for serious illness. During the trials, approximately 0.04% of vaccinated individuals got COVID during the trial period. ZERO got severely ill (required hospitalization). Real-world data seems to mostly align with this.

(Not saying I disagree with your first question though.)

[LasVegas]

My issue with this is how many of those 60% were NOT vaccinated? I know I have had Pfizer and am ~95% covered for SERIOUS illness, but I do not want COVID at any level.

I get that. People are comfortable with certain levels of risk. Some might not take the mask off for years even if they are vaccinated. Who knows. The risk is sooooo low for me that I’ll follow the CDC guidelines with zero hesitation. Will people judge me when I am out? Sure but I don’t have an issue with that. I’m just doing what I am told I can do as a fully vaccinated person.

[budwom]

late morning foray found a mixed bag of Covid rules: bank lets folks use the quasi inside ATM without a mask, but requires one inside the bank for everyone. Food market requires masks. Hardware store does not.

[wavedukefan70s]

off to several stores to see what the deal with masks is...Gov says it's ok to not wear one if you've been vaxxed, but let's see what the stores are doing...

Its about 50 50 in my area .
We logged 112 cases state-wide today.