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  1. #2861
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    I do find it hard to believe that we really don't have any strong order here in Georgia. Now that Florida has shut down, I gotta think we're not far behind.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  2. #2862
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    This is the first national/international disaster I can recall in our history where the federal government basically told every state to just make their own rules. What am I overlooking?
    You mean something beyond the guidelines that were issued? During wars the federal government has mandated rules involving conservation and production of resources necessary for the war effort. During disasters the federal government has supplied assistance but have there been any national emergencies during which the federal government mandated action by the states? The polio vaccine was funded and recommended by the federal government but not mandated. Are state authorities unable to ask for and receive updated recommendations from the CDC, or to act upon them responsibly?

    The only reason for the federal government to compel state action in a pandemic is if the activities of one state are affecting other states, right? If one state is a menace to its neighbors then the federal government can order it quarantined. If the state government is not responsive to or controlled by its citizens maybe the federal government can come in pursuant to Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution: “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government…”

  3. #2863
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Just down the road :(
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    A pertinent example [of mild disease and different transmission characteristics in childhood vs adult] is SARS.
    From a review article published by CDC staff in 2007:
    First link is broken.
    Thanks, must have been a time-limited access. Source is The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal: January 2007 - Volume 26 - Issue 1 - p 68-74.
    Hopefully, this version is more accessible: Medscape click-through version

  4. #2864
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    I do find it hard to believe that we really don't have any strong order here in Georgia. Now that Florida has shut down, I gotta think we're not far behind.
    Local officials are picking up the slack when state-wide politicians are slow to act.

    In Fulton County, which covers much of Metro Atlanta, they have instituted a $1000 fine and possible jail time for anyone who is out of their home for anything but essential services. Here are the jobs that are exempt:
    • Healthcare operations
    • Grocery stores
    • Farming, livestock, fishing
    • Businesses that provide food, shelter and social services, and other necessities of life for economically disadvantaged or otherwise needy individuals
    • Newspapers, television, radio, and other media services
    • Gas stations, auto-supply, auto repair
    • Banks
    • Hardware stores
    • Hotels, motels, conference centers - but only to provide shelter not for gatherings
    • Plumbers, electricians, exterminators
    • Businesses providing mailing and shipping services, including post office boxes
    • Educational institutions for the purpose of facilitating distance learning
    • Laundromats, dry cleaners
    • Restaurants for drive-thru, deliver or carry-out
    • Cafeterias in hospitals, nursing homes, or similar facilities
    • Businesses that supply products for people to work from home
    • Home-based care, and residential facilities for seniors, adults or children
    • Legal or accounting services
    • Veterinary care facilities, animal shelters or animal care
    • Bike shops
    • Childcare facilities
    • Janitorial services
    • Funeral homes, crematories and cemeteries, while maintaining social distancing
    • Utility, water, sewer, gas, electrical, oil refining, roads and highways, railroad, public transportation, ride share, solid waste collection, internet services
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  5. #2865
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Entirely predictable side-effect of the stay-at-home society:

    Divorce rates are skyrocketed in China as people emerge from Coronavirus lockdown

    Although China publishes nationwide statistics on divorce only annually, media reports from various cities show uncouplings surged in March as husbands and wives began emerging from weeks of government-mandated lockdowns intended to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus. Incidents of domestic violence also multiplied. The trend may be an ominous warning for couples in the U.S. and elsewhere who are in the early stages of isolating at home: If absence makes the heart grow fonder, the opposite might be true of too much time spent together in close quarters.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #2866
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    The latest numbers in Virginia reflect 234 new cases in the last 24 hour reporting period. Seven people died bringing the death toll to 34.

    http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/

    Governor Northam stated today COVID-19 is projected to peak, in Virginia, between late April and late May.
    Bob Green
    DBR Survivor Football Champion
    2010 & 2016

  7. #2867
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Local officials are picking up the slack when state-wide politicians are slow to act.

    In Fulton County, which covers much of Metro Atlanta, they have instituted a $1000 fine and possible jail time for anyone who is out of their home for anything but essential services.
    But the flip side --- Cumming, Georgia is opening back up for business immediately: http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/heal...b7Kz&ocid=iehp

    "Effective immediately I have rescinded the social distancing order that took effect on the morning of April 1, 2020," Mayor Troy Brumbalow wrote in a statement posted to Facebook.

    "While the intent of the order was to protect the public from the spread of COVID-19, it is obvious that a large portion of our public doesn't want government mandating the recommendations of public health officials," the statement adds.
    The lack of any clear mandate from the top -- whether the President, the Governor, whomever -- is simply absurd IMHO. (Note: not arguing about what the best policy is -- I am positing that the lack of a cohesive policy is a disaster waiting to happen).
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  8. #2868
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    You mean something beyond the guidelines that were issued? During wars the federal government has mandated rules involving conservation and production of resources necessary for the war effort. During disasters the federal government has supplied assistance but have there been any national emergencies during which the federal government mandated action by the states? The polio vaccine was funded and recommended by the federal government but not mandated. Are state authorities unable to ask for and receive updated recommendations from the CDC, or to act upon them responsibly?

    The only reason for the federal government to compel state action in a pandemic is if the activities of one state are affecting other states, right? If one state is a menace to its neighbors then the federal government can order it quarantined. If the state government is not responsive to or controlled by its citizens maybe the federal government can come in pursuant to Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution: “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government…”
    Has there ever been a national emergency quite like this one? No. Those guidelines are in no way sufficient. And yes, the governments of Alabama and Mississippi, apparently, are unable to act responsibly.

  9. #2869
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by TampaDuke View Post
    For what it's worth, the bars and restaurants were shutdown by the counties pretty much immediately in all the major populated areas in Florida. I think they all quickly issued stay at home orders, as well. I doubt the statewide stay at home order he just issued will make much difference in those areas. They were already pretty much under those restrictions via local mandates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Don't try to destroy a good virtue signalling, Tampa.
    Let me try to destroy a snide dismissal of the value of statewide action as if that were mere virtue signalling. Tampa's mayor has been great, responsible, and acted early. She cannot control Pasco County, which is immediately north and was allowing its 460,000+ residents to roam free with no closures and no safer-at-home instructions at all. This was, until Governor DeSantis relented an hour ago, a significant issue for Tampa. The mayor of Oxford, MS has voiced similar concerns about the governor's actions there, and it's a problem in Dallas where Dallas County is responding appropriately, and enormously populous Collin County to the north is ... not.

  10. #2870
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Local officials are picking up the slack when state-wide politicians are slow to act.

    In Fulton County, which covers much of Metro Atlanta, they have instituted a $1000 fine and possible jail time for anyone who is out of their home for anything but essential services. Here are the jobs that are exempt:
    • Everybody except hair cutters.
    That's the way I read these "essential jobs" lists.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  11. #2871
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    High Point
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    You mean something beyond the guidelines that were issued? During wars the federal government has mandated rules involving conservation and production of resources necessary for the war effort. During disasters the federal government has supplied assistance but have there been any national emergencies during which the federal government mandated action by the states? The polio vaccine was funded and recommended by the federal government but not mandated. Are state authorities unable to ask for and receive updated recommendations from the CDC, or to act upon them responsibly?

    The only reason for the federal government to compel state action in a pandemic is if the activities of one state are affecting other states, right? If one state is a menace to its neighbors then the federal government can order it quarantined. If the state government is not responsive to or controlled by its citizens maybe the federal government can come in pursuant to Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution: “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government…”
    The "republican" part of the Constitution as justification for federal intervention would not fly with any of the justices. John Marshall wrote about the issue of jurisdiction in a Supreme Court decision.

    Quarantines fall under public health laws, traditionally under the jurisdiction of the states. The first national one, passed in 1796, authorized the government to assist the states in such situations. A more extensive bill was enacted three years later. The link also tells the story of the quarantine of Alexander Hamilton and his wife. He was not a happy camper.

    https://www.statutesandstories.com/b...to-quarantine/


    The second link, which deals with Hamilton's attempt to be rid of his confinement, includes in the notes decisions by officials in other towns to prevent entry by those who had fled Philadelphia

    https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../01-15-02-0268.

  12. #2872
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    3,600 deaths and counting in the last week in the US. That would be ~2 times the death rate for flu in the US (~30,000 per 4-6-month season). And we haven’t even approached the top of the death curve yet, nor have have we seen the case loads begin to really spike yet in most places. Hopefully the stay-at-home orders will minimize the damage, but hopefully folks are beginning to understand why the “it is just like the flu” arguments were a bad idea. Even with some extreme social distancing, this is probably gonna kill way more people than the flu typically does.

  13. #2873
    Quote Originally Posted by AustinDevil View Post
    Let me try to destroy a snide dismissal of the value of statewide action as if that were mere virtue signalling. Tampa's mayor has been great, responsible, and acted early. She cannot control Pasco County, which is immediately north and was allowing its 460,000+ residents to roam free with no closures and no safer-at-home instructions at all. This was, until Governor DeSantis relented an hour ago, a significant issue for Tampa. The mayor of Oxford, MS has voiced similar concerns about the governor's actions there, and it's a problem in Dallas where Dallas County is responding appropriately, and enormously populous Collin County to the north is ... not.
    I have to give the KC metro area credit, the mayor of KCMO and 3 of the 5 counties worked together to create the stay at home order and announced together. Several other counties came aboard within a day or two. Kansas went statewide soon after. Missouri is leaving up to the counties.

  14. #2874
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    But the flip side --- Cumming, Georgia is opening back up for business immediately: http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/heal...b7Kz&ocid=iehp



    The lack of any clear mandate from the top -- whether the President, the Governor, whomever -- is simply absurd IMHO. (Note: not arguing about what the best policy is -- I am positing that the lack of a cohesive policy is a disaster waiting to happen).

    *Grabs his popcorn*

  15. #2875
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    The bars were closed after two weeks of spring breakers and after the national coverage. Still did not impose a limit on the number of people allowed to group together.

    Restaurants at 50% is a joke. You still have people touching common surfaces (doors, railings, random stuff) AND THEN EATING.

    The border checks were for New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Louisiana tagged cars only and they where just told self quarantine for 14 days. They were not checking up on these people. Furthermore if you flew in from those place nothing.

    The stay at home order is for four counties, until April 15 and enacted Monday.

    At best these are half measures and I’m not even comparing it to New York or California. I’m comparing to my own state: South Carolina.
    The restaurants at 50% is especially idiotic. You still have servers shuttling back and forth between various tables, serving plates, taking them away, pouring water, bringing checks. I don't think you could possibly design a better way to transmit a virus than to OK this kind of behavior.

    I do note that our Governor has made sure that liquor stores are kept open, though he's been a tad disingenuous as to why he's done so ("many are parts of grocery stores.")

  16. #2876
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Sounds like a statewide shelter in place order of some sort is coming to Georgia, taking effect Friday. Details to come, but apparently announced by the Governor.
    "We're only tourists in this life
    Only tourists but the view is nice"

    -- David Byrne

  17. #2877
    Is anyone else finding this whole situation to be absolutely exhausting?!
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  18. #2878
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Is anyone else finding this whole situation to be absolutely exhausting?!
    You have no idea.

  19. #2879
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Is anyone else finding this whole situation to be absolutely exhausting?!
    I'm moved through all the stages of grief now. There is either a sense of peace or the inevitable once I got to acceptance. I don't know which one though.

  20. #2880
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Is anyone else finding this whole situation to be absolutely exhausting?!
    As an elementary school teacher smack dab in the middle of Bergen County, NJ, a county with 3,500 cases (including the nice mom across the street and the two daughters of the family living next door to her) and seven hospitals in this part of the state hitting divert status today, whose wife's business collapsed and one of whose best friends was in critical condition on a ventilator for a week... I'd say yes, I'm exhausted

    I won't even get into the reaction of the Orthodox Jewish population here in NJ, who continue to have mass gatherings

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