PlagueWatch 2020-23 - Coronavirus

[bundabergdevil]

I'm not surprised. Every town, every store is different. Locally in Asheville, Public seems to be better at enforcement than some other stores. But there's variation everywhere.

Yeah. I can go to a Giant in a suburban area 10 minutes in one direction. Usually 100% mask wearing. 10 minute another direction gets me to a rural Dutch-Way. Usually 90% masked up but always a handful of people walking around looking like they’re just waiting for someone to say something to them.

[mpj96]

Frontline workers in NC eligible for vaccine today!!

[Stray Gator]

^Fair enough, Stay Gator. Thank you for your firsthand account. I think that also reinforcers the idea that "controlled environments" (grocery store, a theme park that has rules, etc.) leads to more compliance. The stories I heard were from a co-worker from Boston who went down to the west coast of Florida and frequented restaurants/bars...He is a young guy who had recently had COVID so he himself I think was not being very cautious but said what he saw was definitely not what he was accustomed to in Boston.

Regardless, I think it's fair to say Florida has been a state that has "opened up" more aggressively than most. The economy is certainly better for it. I have no idea if COVID cases are or not. California ain't letting Disneyland open still...

Your co-worker saw people in Florida restaurants and bars who were not wearing masks and considered that to be "culture shock"? Have the people in Boston's restaurants and bars figured out a way to eat and drink while wearing their masks? Apologies for the sarcasm, but I couldn't resist. Personally, I think it's foolish for anyone to frequent restaurants and bars, and I suspect that many young people down here and in Boston, like your co-worker, have paid the price for that indulgence by contracting COVID-19. Let's hope that most do not suffer long-term consequences.

[Stray Gator]

I'm surprised you saw any unmasked people in Publix. Aren't they keeping their mask requirements going nationwide, regardless of local law? When I was in St. Pete in October, everyone was masked, and the local one is enforcing as well.

FWIW, to see no more than 5 unmasked people in 40-50 trips inside the grocery store over a period of several months seems like a relatively good compliance rate to me. On a couple of those occasions, I pointed out the offender to a nearby employee and asked: "Isn't everyone who comes in here supposed to wear a face covering?" Both times, the employee replied with a resigned shrug, "Yes, everyone is supposed to wear a mask, but we can't enforce it." I was tempted to suggest that they could enforce it simply by having the security guard at the front door bar entry to anyone who isn't wearing a mask, or escort them out of the store if they remove their mask; but since you never know how a refusenik will react, and I wouldn't want to put the store's employees in an awkward position, it's not worth protesting. One of those offenses best left to the inevitable force of karma.

[Bluedog]

Your co-worker saw people in Florida restaurants and bars who were not wearing masks and considered that to be "culture shock"? Have the people in Boston's restaurants and bars figured out a way to eat and drink while wearing their masks? Apologies for the sarcasm, but I couldn't resist. Personally, I think it's foolish for anyone to frequent restaurants and bars, and I suspect that many young people down here and in Boston, like your co-worker, have paid the price for that indulgence by contracting COVID-19. Let's hope that most do not suffer long-term consequences.

Hahaha, I hear you. I think his point was the level of openness and then the mindset/behaviors of the patrons therein (e.g. people sitting at the bar near each other, hanging out, co-mingling etc.). As opposed to sitting at tables very far apart in a capacity-controlled environment with all restaurant workers being very careful, temperature checks, etc. In any event, not trying to derail the conversation or point a finger at Florida. Just suggesting that there's a wide variation of government restrictions as well as individual behavior. I'm sure there are some patterns in certain locales, but don't want to paint it with too broad a brush. I'm sure you could find similar things happening in many different locations if you're looking for it. And you can easily avoid that as well if you don't seek it out. Definitely not trying to stir anything up Stray Gator!

As for me, I have yet to dine in a restaurant since March 2020...although, by me, they have been closed for a large chunk of the duration. I have done takeout. I do think restaurants have been scapegoated a lot though unfairly. Some of them have really strong protocols/standards. But of course, it's impossible to eat with a mask. Patrons in my state have to wear a mask when not eating/when interacting with any waitstaff.

[elvis14]

We have already seen this though. Florida has had all schools open, Disneyworld open, and pretty poor mask wearing throughout. It's a different world from a NY or CA. I've been told by those visiting it's a "culture shock." Do the numbers bear that out? I'm honestly not sure. But don't know why. (And data clearly shows masks work. Just don't know if it's clear that the states with fewer restrictions have fared much worse for whatever reason. Maybe they have.)

I would expect individuals' behaviors (mobility, non-mask wearing, etc) has a bigger impact than state restrictions or lack thereof, but there could be some correlation between the two. Probably depends on the restrictions. I think data has shown "highly controlled" environments (e.g schools) generally do not contribute to much increased spread. People hanging out with friends in their homes without masks certainly does...

We live in Raleigh and took a trip to St. Augustine Florida in January. I would say that "culture shock" is the appropriate response. Lower percentage of people wearing masks. More people than what we are used to wearing them under their nose. Restaurant workers not wearing masks. Social distancing ignored or done poorly. One shop in had a sign that said "Masks NOT Required". Our daughters went into the shop and my wife and I were outside...saw the sign after they went in. Quickly called them and told them to get out of there (both for safety reasons and because we refused to spend our money there). The bottom line is that most places we went that weekend we felt much less safe than here at home.

Small sample size, I know, but that was our weekend.

[Kdogg]

According to the NY Times, Florida has 1.9 million cases, and 8,900 per 100K. On a per capita basis, this puts them behind NY, NJ, RI, SC, DE, and GA. They've had 31,134 deaths, which is 0.61 per 100K. The per capita death figure puts them at #13, behind VA, AL, OK, AZ, TX, CA, GA, MS, DE, RI, NM, and MA.

How much faith do people have in the numbers provided by the state of FL? They did fire and then eventually arrest the scientist who was questioning them. It may not be as bad as numbers out of China but the state is lacking in credibility.

[PackMan97]

How much faith do people have in the numbers provided by the state of FL? They did fire and then eventually arrest the scientist who was questioning them. It may not be as bad as numbers out of China but the state is lacking in credibility.

It's also worth noting that Florida has one of the best "year round" climates in the country. Folks are almost always going to be able to enjoy being outside vs inside. They don't call it the sunshine state for nothing.

We know the easiest and best way for COVID-19 to spread is to be in close contact, indoors, with someone infected,

[wavedukefan70s]

Frontline workers in NC eligible for vaccine today!!

In south carolina. Tbe 8th and 13th school will close so teachers can get their vaccination. Phase 1b i will be eligible. Roughly 20 pct of our state has been vaccinated.

[MChambers]

It's also worth noting that Florida has one of the best "year round" climates in the country. Folks are almost always going to be able to enjoy being outside vs inside. They don't call it the sunshine state for nothing.

We know the easiest and best way for COVID-19 to spread is to be in close contact, indoors, with someone infected,

In the summer, except along the coast, it’s darned hot and you’ll want to be air conditioning.

[Furniture]

In the summer, except along the coast, it’s darned hot and you’ll want to be air conditioning.

Not so sure the warm weather thing is as safe as it’s reported. Brasil’s problem has significantly worsened during their summer. My wife had been thinking of visiting her family...we have now come to the conclusion that it was much safer here in our winter.

[budwom]

It's also worth noting that Florida has one of the best "year round" climates in the country. Folks are almost always going to be able to enjoy being outside vs inside. They don't call it the sunshine state for nothing.

We know the easiest and best way for COVID-19 to spread is to be in close contact, indoors, with someone infected,

say what? I note how they built their pre air conditioning homes...small windows, huge roof overhangs...Florida has a lot of attributes, but the year round assertion is a bridge too far...

[Bostondevil]

Report from Boston area grocery stores: I haven't seen a single person maskless in a retail establishment since last April. Outdoors - yes. Inside grocery stores, convenience stores, pet stores, 5 Guys (pick-up only), or that one time I ventured into a Barnes & Noble in January - not a single unmasked person. Not one.

As for the data, I don't trust the self-reported numbers from Florida. We won't know the full story for awhile. Verified claims and mortality data aren't available for all of 2020 yet. We can't accurately compare states yet. Economic impact, heck, we've had so much excess death in the past year, the economic impact will be felt for a decade, at least, so, too soon to compare economic outcomes as well.

[Ggallagher]

Not so sure the warm weather thing is as safe as it’s reported. Brasil’s problem has significantly worsened during their summer. My wife had been thinking of visiting her family...we have now come to the conclusion that it was much safer here in our winter.

Well if your wife's from Brasil, she and you would also probably be aware of another factor that likely worsens the situation there. I worked in Brasil for about four years and noticed pretty quickly that the natural personal space for Brasilians is noticeably smaller than what Americans are accustomed to. Two Brasilians will stand closer together when talking than we do normally. As soon as I saw the numbers for Brasil, I figured the virus had to be thinking, "Ooh, this makes transmission lots easier".

[budwom]

Report from Boston area grocery stores: I haven't seen a single person maskless in a retail establishment since last April. Outdoors - yes. Inside grocery stores, convenience stores, pet stores, 5 Guys (pick-up only), or that one time I ventured into a Barnes & Noble in January - not a single unmasked person. Not one.

As for the data, I don't trust the self-reported numbers from Florida. We won't know the full story for awhile. Verified claims and mortality data aren't available for all of 2020 yet. We can't accurately compare states yet. Economic impact, heck, we've had so much excess death in the past year, the economic impact will be felt for a decade, at least, so, too soon to compare economic outcomes as well.

yeah, compliance here is essentially 100% as well, it's not even an issue except for one yokel out in the sticks who ran one of those UPS Stores, had a sign proclaiming masklessness, and UPS pulled his franchise, the landlord cancelled his lease.

[PackMan97]

Report from Boston area grocery stores: I haven't seen a single person maskless in a retail establishment since last April. Outdoors - yes. Inside grocery stores, convenience stores, pet stores, 5 Guys (pick-up only), or that one time I ventured into a Barnes & Noble in January - not a single unmasked person. Not one.

As for the data, I don't trust the self-reported numbers from Florida. We won't know the full story for awhile. Verified claims and mortality data aren't available for all of 2020 yet. We can't accurately compare states yet. Economic impact, heck, we've had so much excess death in the past year, the economic impact will be felt for a decade, at least, so, too soon to compare economic outcomes as well.

The numbers are most certainly low, but I think that is everywhere. I know a number of people who had one person get sick in the household (got tested) and then the other 2-3 people in the household got sick but never tested (because they knew what it was and they weren't seriously sick).

[throatybeard]

Also, Stray Gator is talking about Orlando, a largeish metro area, the sort of area where COVID compliance tends to be more robust; St Augustine is...not that. And smaller towns in the *interior* of north Florida? That's south Georgia by another name. So Florida's like anywhere else--you're gonna have a lot of local variation.

My friend who cuts my hair is {uncontrollable sobbing} moving to St Augustine, where her kid is staying with the grandparents. She says it's yeehaw COVID wild west there.

[Bostondevil]

The numbers are most certainly low, but I think that is everywhere. I know a number of people who had one person get sick in the household (got tested) and then the other 2-3 people in the household got sick but never tested (because they knew what it was and they weren't seriously sick).

Yes, of course, this goes without saying. I also don't trust the official numbers from Florida based on whatever the brouhaha was going on down there with the Department of Health employee. I don't know all the details, nor do I particularly want to right now, but it does mean that I take any statement saying Florida is "doing better" than State A or "doing worse" than State B with an extra large grain of salt.

[Stray Gator]

Also, Stray Gator is talking about Orlando, a largeish metro area, the sort of area where COVID compliance tends to be more robust; St Augustine is...not that. And smaller towns in the *interior* of north Florida? That's south Georgia by another name. So Florida's like anywhere else--you're gonna have a lot of local variation.

My friend who cuts my hair is {uncontrollable sobbing} moving to St Augustine, where her kid is staying with the grandparents. She says it's yeehaw COVID wild west there.

Thank you. There doesn't seem to be much affection or respect for Florida here today. In any event, I tried to make clear that my report was not intended to reflect conditions in Florida outside the immediate metro Orlando area in which we reside and shop, by acknowledging that "I have not traveled extensively around Florida during the past year," and that "I can't attest to the level of compliance elsewhere around Florida."

Based on my observations as well as comments from family members and friends, I believe it's fair to say that the level of compliance with the safety recommendations of public health authorities varies widely, depending upon the the region of the state, and in some cases even from one neighborhood or household to another. And based in turn on that lack of uniformity -- the cause of which, so far as I can tell, bears less of a correlation to geographics or demographics than to individual attitudes, I'll admit that I view with some skepticism the reports of 100% compliance from residents of other states.

[Bostondevil]

Thank you. There doesn't seem to be much affection or respect for Florida here today. In any event, I tried to make clear that my report was not intended to reflect conditions in Florida outside the immediate metro Orlando area in which we reside and shop, by acknowledging that "I have not traveled extensively around Florida during the past year," and that "I can't attest to the level of compliance elsewhere around Florida."

Based on my observations as well as comments from family members and friends, I believe it's fair to say that the level of compliance with the safety recommendations of public health authorities varies widely, depending upon the the region of the state, and in some cases even from one neighborhood or household to another. And based in turn on that lack of uniformity -- the cause of which, so far as I can tell, bears less of a correlation to geographics or demographics than to individual attitudes, I'll admit that I view with some skepticism the reports of 100% compliance from residents of other states.

I vary my grocery store shopping from upper middle class suburb to more working class suburb to within the City limits in a couple of different neighborhoods, one near Roxbury, the other more economically mixed. I have not gone grocery shopping in Western Mass since the pandemic but I have gone to convenience stores/sub shops in the middle part of the state (even in towns with a lot of Trump yard signs), 100% compliance. In fact, if I went into a convenience store or sub shop where there were patrons not wearing masks, I would take my business elsewhere. I am a statistician and a public health researcher. When I go out into public, I subconsciously count how many people I see and I consciously note mask usage, so, doubt my 100% compliance statement if you like, doesn't mean it's not true. To be fair, 100% compliance in mask usage includes people who might not be wearing said mask 100% correctly, but if their is a mask covering at least their mouth, I count them as mask users while personally steering well clear of them if I can see their nose.