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  1. #13881
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil2K View Post
    ...any thoughts on where I've gone wrong here?
    Yes. You're assuming this portion of the American populace are intelligent, reasonable human beings who will say "Ah, the government is truly concerned about the safety of these vaccines" and not "SEE! I told you the vaccines are more dangerous than the disease!!!".

  2. #13882
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Yes. You're assuming this portion of the American populace are intelligent, reasonable human beings who will say "Ah, the government is truly concerned about the safety of these vaccines" and not "SEE! I told you the vaccines are more dangerous than the disease!!!".
    I did say "maybe"...sigh...

  3. #13883
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil2K View Post
    Thanks - our big difference lies in the quoted/bolded line. I think we're hitting the point where supply fully meets demand right now and are within 4-6 weeks (max) of having so much supply that we're begging people to consume it. That changes the math substantially...
    Here in Wake County, it appears that we've hit the tipping point today:

    https://www.wral.com/wake-county-does-away-with-vaccine-waitlist-opens-website-for-direct-scheduling/19630894/

  4. #13884
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDevil2K View Post
    Here in NY it is now open to everyone over 16. I have gotten my two doses but I am hearing anecdotally from a number of people that it is still not easy to get an appointment - probably a month out or so, since they just opened it up to a much bigger group of people within the past few weeks. I'm not sure if the bottleneck is on the supply side or the available nurses side. But I think now that it is open to everyone, they should hopefully work through this by late May and we too will approach the tipping point.

  5. #13885
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Here in NY it is now open to everyone over 16. I have gotten my two doses but I am hearing anecdotally from a number of people that it is still not easy to get an appointment - probably a month out or so, since they just opened it up to a much bigger group of people within the past few weeks. I'm not sure if the bottleneck is on the supply side or the available nurses side. But I think now that it is open to everyone, they should hopefully work through this by late May and we too will approach the tipping point.
    In my neck of SoCal (which also just opened up to 16+) demand is much higher than supply. And supply has been pretty good, as far as I can tell. Iím guessing it will be at least a month until everyone who actively wants a vaccine will be able to get one.

  6. #13886
    Here in Kansas, it opened to everyone 16+ a week or two ago. I have started getting emails from places where I registered with on 3/22/21. Fortunately, I was able to get an appoinment on 3/25/21 at a location that didn't have you sign up to receive alerts. I will get my 2nd one tomorrow morning. You just had to work at getting the appointments - hopefully it will get easier for people.

  7. #13887
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInKansas View Post
    Here in Kansas, it opened to everyone 16+ a week or two ago. I have started getting emails from places where I registered with on 3/22/21. Fortunately, I was able to get an appoinment on 3/25/21 at a location that didn't have you sign up to receive alerts. I will get my 2nd one tomorrow morning. You just had to work at getting the appointments - hopefully it will get easier for people.
    Excellent news DukieInKansas!
    Carolina delenda est

  8. #13888
    I played poker last night and maybe six of the players were Vietnamese-Americans. Mostly working class, one owned a restaurant, one was a professional but said little. All but the silent one said they weren't getting the vaccine. Why, I asked? There was some laughter and then one said because Vietnamese women don't even get the flu! They had heard that you would have to get one every year from then on and didn't like that. After all, they didn't get the flu shot and were fine. Another pointed out that some people got the vaccine and still got covid, so why bother? I threw out a couple of pro-vaccine arguments but it was quickly clear that I was wasting my breath. It seemed to be a peer decided issue about which they all laughingly agreed - good times! They were all between 35-50yo and appeared healthy and probably low risk, so I kind of understood the "What, Me Worry?" attitude.

    There was also a redneck guy (I can say that - I grew up on a Texas farm!) - he said he had just seen a newsmax report that only 9k people total in the US died from Covid-19! I asked the source - he glanced at the article and said CDC. I asked for link and he sent it. It turned out they were backing their screaming headlines with a cockamamie argument that only 9k people died of "just covid" - the rest had co-morbidities. So anyone who has a co-morbidity, gets covid and dies doesn't count. I tried to explain the problem with that but he said he didn't even read the article - he just knew that "the news" was lying and was surprised I still fell for it.

    So I had a couple takeaways from this night out. First is that for maybe 20-30% of the population, logical arguments can't compete with the mutually reinforcing rewards that come with peer-group group-think. Agreement is fun and independent thinking is hard. So it will take something really personally salient - like someone close to them get really sick or die to change their minds.

    My second takeaway was that I need to find a new poker game.

  9. #13889
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    I played poker last night and maybe six of the players were Vietnamese-Americans. Mostly working class, one owned a restaurant, one was a professional but said little. All but the silent one said they weren't getting the vaccine. Why, I asked? There was some laughter and then one said because Vietnamese women don't even get the flu! They had heard that you would have to get one every year from then on and didn't like that. After all, they didn't get the flu shot and were fine. Another pointed out that some people got the vaccine and still got covid, so why bother? I threw out a couple of pro-vaccine arguments but it was quickly clear that I was wasting my breath. It seemed to be a peer decided issue about which they all laughingly agreed - good times! They were all between 35-50yo and appeared healthy and probably low risk, so I kind of understood the "What, Me Worry?" attitude.

    There was also a redneck guy (I can say that - I grew up on a Texas farm!) - he said he had just seen a newsmax report that only 9k people total in the US died from Covid-19! I asked the source - he glanced at the article and said CDC. I asked for link and he sent it. It turned out they were backing their screaming headlines with a cockamamie argument that only 9k people died of "just covid" - the rest had co-morbidities. So anyone who has a co-morbidity, gets covid and dies doesn't count. I tried to explain the problem with that but he said he didn't even read the article - he just knew that "the news" was lying and was surprised I still fell for it.

    So I had a couple takeaways from this night out. First is that for maybe 20-30% of the population, logical arguments can't compete with the mutually reinforcing rewards that come with peer-group group-think. Agreement is fun and independent thinking is hard. So it will take something really personally salient - like someone close to them get really sick or die to change their minds.

    My second takeaway was that I need to find a new poker game.
    Iím afraid your takeaway is correct. There is a major trust deficit across much of America. Confidence has been eroded in almost every institution (government, media, businesses, churches, etc). Vaccines skepticism is just one manifestation, albeit one with serious consequences. Itís not a problem confined to Trump voters.

    I was speaking to a Desert Shield vet who said the fellow vets in his circles are refusing the vaccine because they are worried about ďall the things the Army has already put in our bodies.Ē The Anthrax vaccine from the late 90ís and early 20ís is still fresh in the minds of many vets. Gulf War Syndrome is another source of mistrust.

    The long term solution isnít better arguments, itís rebuilding trust. I havenít seen a good plan for getting there but itís probably going to require some short-term pain as a substantial minority of the population refuses the vaccine.

  10. #13890
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Nothing will rebuild trust in a group of people that is completely illogical and quite literally insane. My SIL is one of them. Yesterday she posted on Facebook that the ex-president of Pfizer says the vaccine is going to kill everyone, that it's main purpose was to cull the herd, and that the average life expectancy after getting the Pfizer vaccine is two years.
    So, I guess I better get my affairs in order; although, since both of my heirs have also been vaccinated it seems we will all die at about the same time...

  11. #13891
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Nothing will rebuild trust in a group of people that is completely illogical and quite literally insane. My SIL is one of them. Yesterday she posted on Facebook that the ex-president of Pfizer says the vaccine is going to kill everyone, that it's main purpose was to cull the herd, and that the average life expectancy after getting the Pfizer vaccine is two years.
    So, I guess I better get my affairs in order; although, since both of my heirs have also been vaccinated it seems we will all die at about the same time...
    I'm kind of an orphan...and I got Moderna. Just giving you options.

  12. #13892
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Nothing will rebuild trust in a group of people that is completely illogical and quite literally insane. My SIL is one of them. Yesterday she posted on Facebook that the ex-president of Pfizer says the vaccine is going to kill everyone, that it's main purpose was to cull the herd, and that the average life expectancy after getting the Pfizer vaccine is two years.
    So, I guess I better get my affairs in order; although, since both of my heirs have also been vaccinated it seems we will all die at about the same time...
    Must be some great Thanksgiving conversations at the rsvman household.

  13. #13893
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Must be some great Thanksgiving conversations at the rsvman household.
    My in laws are similar, but the ďno vaccines, no visiting the grandkidsĒ mandate (given by my wife) was enough to win the day and her parents got the shots.

    We also host Thanksgiving and have a very strict no politics rule during it (even stricter than the off topic boardĒ.

  14. #13894
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    My in laws are similar, but the ďno vaccines, no visiting the grandkidsĒ mandate (given by my wife) was enough to win the day and her parents got the shots.

    We also host Thanksgiving and have a very strict no politics rule during it (even stricter than the off topic boardĒ.
    Do you hire a mod for the day to hand out infractions? Jason might be available.

    I'm expecting/hoping businesses & events & sports will start enforcing no vaccine/no entry rules. Our wonderful governor has said restrictions are not allowed (I believe he even signed an Exec Order), and I'm tempted to walk into my local steakhouse in my underwear and say "The Governor says you can't put restrictions on me! 'merica!" The only questions is, boxers or briefs?

    I'm 4 days away from my Golden Ticket, and getting more fed up with this crowd. My banker told me she has a medical condition that makes her truly afraid to get the vaccine, and we need everyone else to get it to protect these 10-15%. I'm going to continue to mask up in stores and such, but there's going to come a point where I say to that crowd "Go ahead and catch it and die". God designed natural selection for a reason.

  15. #13895
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Partly Orlando, FL partly heard Sandpoint, ID
    I'm playing witness to a bit of a kerfuffle in my wife's family. Her great aunt recently passed away(not unexpectedly, she was almost 100) and her only child is trying to beat cancer. But in her immunocomprimised state, she is still very concerned with COVID and so really doesn't want to be around a bunch of unvaccinated people. So she has decided instead to have a virtual memorial service. And now, several of wife's family, including a bunch of anti vaxers, are in a brouhaha about the memorial only being virtual. Just not fun trying to deal with folks who don't recognize the impact they can have on others.

  16. #13896
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    I played poker last night and maybe six of the players were Vietnamese-Americans. Mostly working class, one owned a restaurant, one was a professional but said little. All but the silent one said they weren't getting the vaccine. Why, I asked? There was some laughter and then one said because Vietnamese women don't even get the flu! They had heard that you would have to get one every year from then on and didn't like that. After all, they didn't get the flu shot and were fine. Another pointed out that some people got the vaccine and still got covid, so why bother? I threw out a couple of pro-vaccine arguments but it was quickly clear that I was wasting my breath. It seemed to be a peer decided issue about which they all laughingly agreed - good times! They were all between 35-50yo and appeared healthy and probably low risk, so I kind of understood the "What, Me Worry?" attitude.

    There was also a redneck guy (I can say that - I grew up on a Texas farm!) - he said he had just seen a newsmax report that only 9k people total in the US died from Covid-19! I asked the source - he glanced at the article and said CDC. I asked for link and he sent it. It turned out they were backing their screaming headlines with a cockamamie argument that only 9k people died of "just covid" - the rest had co-morbidities. So anyone who has a co-morbidity, gets covid and dies doesn't count. I tried to explain the problem with that but he said he didn't even read the article - he just knew that "the news" was lying and was surprised I still fell for it.

    So I had a couple takeaways from this night out. First is that for maybe 20-30% of the population, logical arguments can't compete with the mutually reinforcing rewards that come with peer-group group-think. Agreement is fun and independent thinking is hard. So it will take something really personally salient - like someone close to them get really sick or die to change their minds.

    My second takeaway was that I need to find a new poker game.
    Because of this, the next best way forward are advancements in rapid identification of COVID and new treatments. I hate to admit it but vaccination is only going to get us so far.

  17. #13897
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I've had a few wee conversations with folks who say they don't want to be vaccinated...I politely ask them about their thinking, but learned long ago that persuasion will get me absolutely nowhere...but I do like to hear their thought process.

    Even if it's depressing to listen to. (e.g. neighbors who fear being "tracked," neighbor who got too many shots in the Army 40 years ago, neighbors who "don't know what's in the vaccine.")

  18. #13898
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I've had a few wee conversations with folks who say they don't want to be vaccinated...I politely ask them about their thinking, but learned long ago that persuasion will get me absolutely nowhere...but I do like to hear their thought process.

    Even if it's depressing to listen to. (e.g. neighbors who fear being "tracked," neighbor who got too many shots in the Army 40 years ago, neighbors who "don't know what's in the vaccine.")
    Step-sister is big on the, "it alters your DNA" argument. Considering her trajectory, it might help, but I'm not going to recommend my parents say that to her.

  19. #13899
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Step-sister is big on the, "it alters your DNA" argument. Considering her trajectory, it might help, but I'm not going to recommend my parents say that to her.
    I don't understand when the public at large stopped trusting experts. When they to go a restaurant, do they offer cooking suggestions to the chef? Do they act as their own attorneys? Are they eager to remove their own appendix?

    I'm super glad to have experts around and vocally offering their learned opinion. Saves me the trouble of 12 years of medical school.

    I can't fathom the hubris involved to imagine a ten minute Youtube video leaves you more knowledge in the medical field than the experts.

  20. #13900
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I don't understand when the public at large stopped trusting experts. When they to go a restaurant, do they offer cooking suggestions to the chef? Do they act as their own attorneys? Are they eager to remove their own appendix?

    I'm super glad to have experts around and vocally offering their learned opinion. Saves me the trouble of 12 years of medical school.

    I can't fathom the hubris involved to imagine a ten minute Youtube video leaves you more knowledge in the medical field than the experts.
    I feel pretty confident in blaming social media. Now any moron can put forth any ludicrous argument, and a million people can end up reading it. And believing it.

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