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  1. #21581
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Too much national pride apparently in shunning foreign desired/manufactured products.
    Too many lies about the efficacy of various vaccines. Can't change them now.

  2. #21582
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I agree, though I chuckle at the notion of "communist" China. That ship sailed a long time ago...Totalitarian to be sure, but not much communism going on these days..
    China is a very controlling country, that is why people are peacefully protesting. Many people want freedom, their country run by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) , that is an undeniable fact.

    In recent news, "Jinping was reelected to a third term as general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on Sunday, October 23. His reelection, which came at the end of the CCP’s week-long congress, is a break from the party’s traditional limit of two terms for its leader."

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chi...ommunist-Party

    The US news isn't intensely covering the fact that there are protest in over 15 major cities in China, which is a big deal, that the CCP does not like.

  3. #21583
    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    China is a very controlling country, that is why people are peacefully protesting. Many people want freedom, their country run by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) , that is an undeniable fact.

    In recent news, "Jinping was reelected to a third term as general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on Sunday, October 23. His reelection, which came at the end of the CCP’s week-long congress, is a break from the party’s traditional limit of two terms for its leader."

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chi...ommunist-Party

    The US news isn't intensely covering the fact that there are protest in over 15 major cities in China, which is a big deal, that the CCP does not like.
    I believe he was alluding to the fact that China is a totalitarian government with a hybrid form of socialism and capitalism. What it employs has very little resemblance to communism. Also both the Congress and protests were all over the news as was the poor efficacy of their vaccine.

  4. #21584
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    From ridiculous to virtually unbelievable....

    theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/30/new-zealand-parents-refuse-use-of-vaccinated-blood-in-life-saving-surgery-on baby

    In short, a 4-month-old baby has severe pulmonary stenosis and requires surgery to live, but the parents are refusing to allow the surgery unless they are guaranteed that no blood from vaccinated people will be used. SMH

    The doctors are forced to petition for temporary custody of the baby so they can save its life.

  5. #21585
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    From ridiculous to virtually unbelievable...

    theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/30/new-zealand-parents-refuse-use-of-vaccinated-blood-in-life-saving-surgery-on baby

    In short, a 4-month-old baby has severe pulmonary stenosis and requires surgery to live, but the parents are refusing to allow the surgery unless they are guaranteed that no blood from vaccinated people will be used. SMH

    The doctors are forced to petition for temporary custody of the baby so they can save its life.
    Thanks social media.

  6. #21586
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Book review

    I recently read David Quammen's Breathless: The Scientific Race to Defeat a Deadly Virus. I wasn't sure I was ready to read a book about Covid, but Quammen is such a great science writer that I decided to give it a try. (His earlier books include Spillover, The Tangled Tree, and The Reluctant Mr. Darwin.) I was glad I did. Quammen does a great job of explaining various scientific aspects of Covid, including the efforts by NIH to work with Moderna and other pharmaceutical companies and the science regarding whether Covid was introduced to humans by spillover from one or more animals, a lab leak, or a deliberate engineering.

  7. #21587
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I recently read David Quammen's Breathless: The Scientific Race to Defeat a Deadly Virus. I wasn't sure I was ready to read a book about Covid, but Quammen is such a great science writer that I decided to give it a try. (His earlier books include Spillover, The Tangled Tree, and The Reluctant Mr. Darwin.) I was glad I did. Quammen does a great job of explaining various scientific aspects of Covid, including the efforts by NIH to work with Moderna and other pharmaceutical companies and the science regarding whether Covid was introduced to humans by spillover from one or more animals, a lab leak, or a deliberate engineering.
    What were his thoughts on this?

  8. #21588
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Zoonosis

    Quote Originally Posted by aimo View Post
    What were his thoughts on this?
    After speaking with many scientists and others on both sides of this issue, including Alina Chan and Matt Ridley, who are authors of Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19 and proponents of the lab leak theory, and examining the studies that have been written, Quammen concludes that by far the most likely theory is zoonosis.

  9. #21589
    Thought this was interesting:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/o...ly-deaths.html
    "Opinion: Covid-19 Isn’t a Pandemic of the Unvaccinated Anymore"

    Americans received their first Covid-19 vaccine doses in December 2020 ... And yet hundreds of Americans are still dying each day. Who are they? The data offers a straightforward answer: older adults...

    As many Twitter discussions about the “base rate fallacy” have emphasized, this is not because the vaccines are ineffective — we know, also from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data, that they work very well...

    But it isn’t the whole story, or vaccinated older adults wouldn’t now make up a larger share of Covid deaths than the unvaccinated do...First is the simple fact that more Americans are vaccinated than not, and those older Americans most vulnerable to severe disease are far more likely to be vaccinated than others... It is also partly a reflection of how many fewer Americans, including older ones, have gotten boosters than got the initial vaccines...Finally, vaccines are not as effective among older adults because the immune system weakens with age.
    For those 80 and above, the reduction from vaccination alone is less than fourfold. That is a very good deal, of course. But it also means that, given the underlying age skew, a vaccinated person in their late 80s shares a similar risk of Covid death as a never-vaccinated 70-year-old.

  10. #21590
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Thought this was interesting:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/o...ly-deaths.html
    "Opinion: Covid-19 Isn’t a Pandemic of the Unvaccinated Anymore"
    My 97-year old mother-in-law has now come down with Covid, that has morphed into bacterial pneumonia. It may be touch and go whether or not she survives this. Of course, she has refused to go to the hospital, although she is now taking anti-biotics. We believe she came to our house for Thanksgiving, already infected with Covid, didn't realize it and then spread it to my wife and her 5-year old great grandson. Luckily, none of the other 15 people or so who were staying with us for T-Day, including me, have tested positive.

  11. #21591
    It is still out there...

  12. #21592
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    China is a very controlling country, that is why people are peacefully protesting. Many people want freedom, their country run by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) , that is an undeniable fact.

    In recent news, "Jinping was reelected to a third term as general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on Sunday, October 23. His reelection, which came at the end of the CCP’s week-long congress, is a break from the party’s traditional limit of two terms for its leader."

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chi...ommunist-Party

    The US news isn't intensely covering the fact that there are protest in over 15 major cities in China, which is a big deal, that the CCP does not like.
    It is an undeniable fact that the US news is covering the protests in China.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/w...-protests.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/09/b...rotesters.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/24/w...lockdowns.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/w...ovid-zero.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/article/chin...-protests.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/08/w...-rollback.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/w...d-protest.html

    And that's just the New York Times.

  13. #21593
    Quote Originally Posted by duke79 View Post
    My 97-year old mother-in-law has now come down with Covid, that has morphed into bacterial pneumonia. It may be touch and go whether or not she survives this. Of course, she has refused to go to the hospital, although she is now taking anti-biotics. We believe she came to our house for Thanksgiving, already infected with Covid, didn't realize it and then spread it to my wife and her 5-year old great grandson. Luckily, none of the other 15 people or so who were staying with us for T-Day, including me, have tested positive.
    My 93 y/o vaccinated and boosted (multiple times) grandmother passed away from Covid last week. It is definitely still out there. She got it from my unvaccinated cousin.

  14. #21594
    Quote Originally Posted by Reisen View Post
    My 93 y/o vaccinated and boosted (multiple times) grandmother passed away from Covid last week. It is definitely still out there. She got it from my unvaccinated cousin.
    Very sorry to hear this and my sympathies to you and your family, My 97-year old mother-in-law is still alive but continuing the have issues with the pneumonia she got from her bout with Covid. She has tested negative for Covid now. But my wife, who went on Paxlovid two weeks ago when first diagnosed with Covid apparently has rebound Covid and she is still quite sick.

  15. #21595
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    sounds like Covid cases are ramping up quickly now that China is backing away from the zero Covid policy...WaPo article behind a pay wall:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...430100007F1653

    What could really make things ugly is the fact that many elderly Chinese have been wary of vaccinations, so they're obviously seen to be at considerable risk...

  16. #21596
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    sounds like Covid cases are ramping up quickly now that China is backing away from the zero Covid policy...WaPo article behind a pay wall:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...430100007F1653

    What could really make things ugly is the fact that many elderly Chinese have been wary of vaccinations, so they're obviously seen to be at considerable risk...
    Not only have elderly Chinese been wary of vaccines, but even for those vaccinated, the vaccines offered aren't as good as ones in the US and by now, if you haven't been boosted, have also likely diminished considerably in efficacy over time. Even in the US, while the vaccination rates for elderly are much higher than the rest of the population, the risk profile for a vaccinated 85 year old is the same as an unvaccinated 70 year old (also not t a spring chicken by any means. Is that the right expression?).

    I do find the resistance to vaccines in China odd given the near universal mask wearing.

  17. #21597
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Reisen View Post
    My 93 y/o vaccinated and boosted (multiple times) grandmother passed away from Covid last week. It is definitely still out there. She got it from my unvaccinated cousin.
    I'm so sorry to hear that. My sympathies to you and your family.

    Two weeks ago, a young neighbor lost her father to Covid. No known preexisting conditions, all five shots, right around age 60 (my age!). I haven't asked where they think he got it, but the dad lives in Alabama, so there are some inferences that might be made about attitudes towards Covid. My brother told me this morning that an acquaintance of his had a parent die from Covid in the last week or so.

    Covid is still out there. It's the main reason why we still mask. That, and the grandkids started preschool after Labor Day and have been sick every week save one (and the first week) and we're not interested in putting those germs back into the community. The grandkids mask at school, but they have to take it off to eat, and let's face it, handwashing in preschoolers is suspect at best, so they're bound to catch a lot of bugs. The pediatricians are so booked up that they send most sick kids to urgent care to get examined, but urgent care won't test for Covid, RSV, or flu unless the child presents as really, really sick or immunocompromised. So the 4 year old that looked so sick and felt he couldn't walk across the room was taken to urgent care, where he sucked it up and "behaved properly in public" instead of slithering down looking very ill, then proceeded to slither into his car seat and look very ill again after the appointment. Not Covid per multiple home tests, but we don't know if it was flu, RSV, or the usual kid krud. Parents and grandparents have been tested for Covid and flu, both negative. (My doctor won't test adults for RSV.) It's so bad this year, on the 47th day of class, the 4 year old's teacher sent home a class picture because it was only the second day all year that every student in the class was present!

    My son-in-law works in person and about once a month is sent to work from home due to Covid cases in the office of about 50 people. My daughter is a pediatric speech language pathologist and has about half her caseload sick any given week lately. I'm thankful that me and my better half don't need to leave home except to pick up the grandkids from preschool and watch them for my daughter.

    I'm on my second non-specific upper respiratory infection in 4 weeks. I really enjoyed not being sick over the last 2.5 years! I'm NOT enjoying sharing the kid crud and am very thankful it's likely not one of the ones that could hospitalize me or the little ones. We still mask for Covid, but this other stuff from the kids is worth not spreading. Stay healthy out there.

  18. #21598
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    sounds like Covid cases are ramping up quickly now that China is backing away from the zero Covid policy...WaPo article behind a pay wall:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...430100007F1653

    What could really make things ugly is the fact that many elderly Chinese have been wary of vaccinations, so they're obviously seen to be at considerable risk...

    Also, there is the potential of a billion plus new hosts where the virus can mutation. I don’t understand why they didn’t vaccinate more people before ripping off the bandage. They could have done a 4-6 week vaccine drive to slow the potential surge they about to be unleashed.

  19. #21599
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    Also, there is the potential of a billion plus new hosts where the virus can mutation. I don’t understand why they didn’t vaccinate more people before ripping off the bandage. They could have done a 4-6 week vaccine drive to slow the potential surge they about to be unleashed.
    I read they’re making an effort with the newish nasal vaccine but yeah, sounds dicey

  20. #21600
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Phew

    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I read they’re making an effort with the newish nasal vaccine but yeah, sounds dicey
    When I first read this quickly, I thought this had something to do with space lasers.

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