Best Pro?

[jimmymax]

I must admit, I was inspired to start this snarky thread after seeing Vitale's "Mt Rushmore of Coaches" the other night (Miami game I think). And while its focus was college coaches, it got me thinking about the subsequent success of these coaches' players. Poor Roy is saddled with such an untalented group (that he both recruited and coaches), what's he done for his charges lately?

The UNCheat party line used to be that Duke had great college players, but they didn't succeed at the next level. But a graphic during the Pels' game last night (maybe it was Duke-Miami) showed 24 active NBA players from Duke, vs. 14 Tar H*les.

For K, and Duke as a whole, Grant Hill is the best that I've seen. I only wish Jason Williams had enjoyed a healthy career. But what about Ol' Roy's best? Sure, he had Paul Pierce at Kansas, but what has he done since "not giving a sh*t about Carolina" and landing in Chapel Hell? He inherited Raymond Felton, so I'm left thinking "brand-manager" Harrison Barnes is the best he's produced. Am I wrong?

[CDu]

Yeah, Roy’s UNC players have not done well in the pros. Barnes has the highest scoring average, but Ty Lawson was probably the best of them to this point. Or maybe Felton before he got fat.

[JetpackJesus]

I must admit, I was inspired to start this snarky thread after seeing Vitale's "Mt Rushmore of Coaches" the other night (Miami game I think). And while its focus was college coaches, it got me thinking about the subsequent success of these coaches' players. Poor Roy is saddled with such an untalented group (that he both recruited and coaches), what's he done for his charges lately?

The UNCheat party line used to be that Duke had great college players, but they didn't succeed at the next level. But a graphic during the Pels' game last night (maybe it was Duke-Miami) showed 24 active NBA players from Duke, vs. 14 Tar H*les.

For K, and Duke as a whole, Grant Hill is the best that I've seen. I only wish Jason Williams had enjoyed a healthy career. But what about Ol' Roy's best? Sure, he had Paul Pierce at Kansas, but what has he done since "not giving a sh*t about Carolina" and landing in Chapel Hell? He inherited Raymond Felton, so I'm left thinking "brand-manager" Harrison Barnes is the best he's produced. Am I wrong?

I think that has to be right. The list of players Roy recruited that went on to be good for any stretch of time in the NBA is not long. I think it is Barnes, Bullock, and Lawson. Maybe Coby White eventually?

EDIT: Thinking about it more, Lawson during his best 4ish years in the league was probably better than Barnes.

[jimsumner]

I must admit, I was inspired to start this snarky thread after seeing Vitale's "Mt Rushmore of Coaches" the other night (Miami game I think). And while its focus was college coaches, it got me thinking about the subsequent success of these coaches' players. Poor Roy is saddled with such an untalented group (that he both recruited and coaches), what's he done for his charges lately?

The UNCheat party line used to be that Duke had great college players, but they didn't succeed at the next level. But a graphic during the Pels' game last night (maybe it was Duke-Miami) showed 24 active NBA players from Duke, vs. 14 Tar H*les.

For K, and Duke as a whole, Grant Hill is the best that I've seen. I only wish Jason Williams had enjoyed a healthy career. But what about Ol' Roy's best? Sure, he had Paul Pierce at Kansas, but what has he done since "not giving a sh*t about Carolina" and landing in Chapel Hell? He inherited Raymond Felton, so I'm left thinking "brand-manager" Harrison Barnes is the best he's produced. Am I wrong?

The Carolina-produces-great-NBA players narratives was active during the Smith/Guthridge years and there was a lot of truth to it; Billy Cunningham, Charlie Scott, Robert McAdoo, Bobby Jones, Walter Davis, Phil Ford, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, Kenny Smith, Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, et. al. is a pretty impressive list.

But since then, UNC has produced some decent NBA pros. But no one in their right mind would equate Harrison Barnes, Ty Lawson, Danny Green, et. al. with that earlier list of UNC alums and more recent and current former Duke players, starting with Laettner and Hill and going through Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, J.J. Redick, Kyrie Irving, Brandon Ingram and Jayson Tatum and others.

College success doesn't necessarily equate to NBA success of course. Tyler Hansbrough, Tyler Zeller, Nolan Smith and Jahlil Okafor were all ACC POYs, as were people like Julius Hodge, Shane Larkin, Eric Green and none became NBA stars. With the internationalization of the game becoming an NBA all-star is more difficult for American-born collegians. But Duke's current standard is pretty high and will get higher if and when Kennard, Bagley, Carter, Williamson, Barrett or Reddish continue their upward trajectories and become all-star level players.

[sagegrouse]

Surely that is off-off-topic.

[brevity]

What a great idea for an offseason thread.

14 Tar H*les.

The list of players Roy recruited that went on to be good for any stretch of time in the NBA is not long. I think it is Barnes, Bullock, and Lawson.

Roy doesn't get credit for Vince Carter, but I assume he does get credit for Marvin Williams, so it's 13 active players in the NBA: Harrison Barnes, Tony Bradley, Reggie Bullock, Ed Davis, Wayne Ellington, Danny Green, John Henson, Justin Jackson, Cameron Johnson, Nassir Little, Theo Pinson, Coby White, Marvin Williams. (All Kansas players from his tenure have retired.)

Other former UNC-Roy players with 5 or more NBA seasons: Raymond Felton, Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson, Brandan Wright, Tyler Zeller. Just measuring from beginning to end; no idea if they were healthy or active in between.

Roy's Kansas players make a better list (minimum 5 seasons): Nick Collison, Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, Raef LaFrentz, Greg Ostertag, Paul Pierce, Scot Pollard, Jacque Vaughn, Rex Walters.

Now that I look at it, I don't know. I thought Roy's player tree would be more impressive. Would, say, Billy Donovan's be any better?

[CDu]

What a great idea for an offseason thread.





Roy doesn't get credit for Vince Carter, but I assume he does get credit for Marvin Williams, so it's 13 active players in the NBA: Harrison Barnes, Tony Bradley, Reggie Bullock, Ed Davis, Wayne Ellington, Danny Green, John Henson, Justin Jackson, Cameron Johnson, Nassir Little, Theo Pinson, Coby White, Marvin Williams. (All Kansas players from his tenure have retired.)

Other former UNC-Roy players with 5 or more NBA seasons: Raymond Felton, Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson, Brandan Wright, Tyler Zeller. Just measuring from beginning to end; no idea if they were healthy or active in between.

Roy's Kansas players make a better list (minimum 5 seasons): Nick Collison, Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, Raef LaFrentz, Greg Ostertag, Paul Pierce, Scot Pollard, Jacque Vaughn, Rex Walters.

Now that I look at it, I don't know. I thought Roy's player tree would be more impressive. Would, say, Billy Donovan's be any better?

Donovan has Noah and Horford. After that, it is Brad Beal, Mike Miller, Chandler Parsons, David Lee, the other Jason Williams and Udonis Haslem. After that, it is more “reserves/cup of tea/end-of-bench” types.

[Adaephon]

Donovan has Noah and Horford. After that, it is Brad Beal, Mike Miller, Chandler Parsons, David Lee, the other Jason Williams and Udonis Haslem. After that, it is more “reserves/cup of tea/end-of-bench” types.

Don't forget Corey Brewer. He definitely was more than an end-of-bench type.

[jimsumner]

John Wooden didn't win all those titles without NBA-level talent.

His first top NBA player was Willie Naulls, a 1950s forward who was a multiple NBA all-star.

Then we have Walt Hazzard/Mahdi Abdul Rahman, Gail Goodrich, Keith Erickson, Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Lucius Allen, Sidney Wicks, Curtis Rowe,, Dave Myers, Henry Bibby, Swen Nater, Bill Walton, Keith/Jamal Wilkes, Richard Washington, Marques Johnson and I'm sure some others I've forgotten.

Not a bad list.

[CDu]

Don't forget Corey Brewer. He definitely was more than an end-of-bench type.

I had him in "reserves" type. But yes, he's in there too. Right behind Haslem in my opinion.

[Tripping William]

John Wooden didn't win all those titles without NBA-level talent.

His first top NBA player was Willie Naulls, a 1950s forward who was a multiple NBA all-star.

Then we have Walt Hazzard/Mahdi Abdul Rahman, Gail Goodrich, Keith Erickson, Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Lucius Allen, Sidney Wicks, Curtis Rowe,, Dave Myers, Henry Bibby, Swen Nater, Bill Walton, Keith/Jamal Wilkes, Richard Washington, Marques Johnson and I'm sure some others I've forgotten.

Not a bad list.

Sam Gilbert? {ducks and quickly runs for cover}

[OldPhiKap]

Sam Gilbert? {ducks and quickly runs for cover}

“The Adidas of his time”

[DavidBenAkiva]

Danny Green has turned himself into a very good pro. He was a key part of the Raptors team last year and earned a good paycheck playing for the Lakers this year.

Reggie Bullock is another guy that has earned a good NBA career. Barnes is having a solid if not memorable career. He'll forever live in the shadow of Kevin Durant. In his 3rd seasons, Tony Bradley is finally starting to get playing time as a reserve big in Utah. He might play another 3 or 10 years in the NBA. Justin Jackson's NBA career is on the downward trajectory as well after starting off with some promise in Sacramento.

Coby White is having a good first year in Chicago, scoring 11 points per game off the bench for a disappointing Bulls team.

Cam Johnson is playing a key bench role for Phoenix, but you wonder, at age 23, how much more potential is there beyond a guy that takes 3's off the bench.

Nassir Little is not doing a whole heck of a lot this year in Portland but is on a guaranteed contract for a couple more seasons.

It's honestly shocking how many guys came from UNC have fizzled or wound their way out of the NBA in the past 2 decades. Roy has NEVER had an NBA All-Star since he became the head coach in Chapel Hill. If Tatum and Ingram are named All-Stars this year, Coach K will have had 4 (Luol Deng x2, Kyrie Irving x6 and Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both were 2-time All-Stars in the 2000s) with several more potentially on their way. With Cole Anthony's struggles this year before the injury, one wonders if he has All-Star potential. The PG position in the NBA is stacked and there are many young guards out there. Could it be that Roy will never coach a future NBA All-Star at UNC?

[jimsumner]

Danny Green has turned himself into a very good pro. He was a key part of the Raptors team last year and earned a good paycheck playing for the Lakers this year.

Reggie Bullock is another guy that has earned a good NBA career. Barnes is having a solid if not memorable career. He'll forever live in the shadow of Kevin Durant. In his 3rd seasons, Tony Bradley is finally starting to get playing time as a reserve big in Utah. He might play another 3 or 10 years in the NBA. Justin Jackson's NBA career is on the downward trajectory as well after starting off with some promise in Sacramento.

Coby White is having a good first year in Chicago, scoring 11 points per game off the bench for a disappointing Bulls team.

Cam Johnson is playing a key bench role for Phoenix, but you wonder, at age 23, how much more potential is there beyond a guy that takes 3's off the bench.

Nassir Little is not doing a whole heck of a lot this year in Portland but is on a guaranteed contract for a couple more seasons.

It's honestly shocking how many guys came from UNC have fizzled or wound their way out of the NBA in the past 2 decades. Roy has NEVER had an NBA All-Star since he became the head coach in Chapel Hill. If Tatum and Ingram are named All-Stars this year, Coach K will have had 4 (Luol Deng x2, Kyrie Irving x6 and Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both were 2-time All-Stars in the 2000s) with several more potentially on their way. With Cole Anthony's struggles this year before the injury, one wonders if he has All-Star potential. The PG position in the NBA is stacked and there are many young guards out there. Could it be that Roy will never coach a future NBA All-Star at UNC?

Christian Laettner and Grant Hill? Or are they too early?

[brevity]

If Tatum and Ingram are named All-Stars this year, Coach K will have had 4 (Luol Deng x2, Kyrie Irving x6 and Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer both were 2-time All-Stars in the 2000s) with several more potentially on their way.

Not sure what you meant by this. Coach K has had 3 former players become first-time All-Stars since Roy took the UNC job, plus 2 previous All-Stars in that period (see bolded). He has 6 former players overall.

Grant Hill (1995-1998, 2000-2001, 2005)
Christian Laettner (1997)
Elton Brand (2002, 2006)
Carlos Boozer (2007-2008)
Luol Deng (2012-2013)
Kyrie Irving (2013-2015, 2017-2019)