Clemson 79 Duke 72. Put your post-game thoughts here

[Edouble]

I heard that Coach K said in press conf. That Clemson played well and Duke didn't defend the 4 and the 5 well. Also read that Tre Jones kind of dismissed that and said it was all on the Blue Devils coming down there not ready to play and that Clemson didn't do anything so special that other teams they have beaten have done. Interesting. Glad Tre is the kind of leader that speaks up and not afraid to tell it like it is. Next play!

You're just summarizing the DBR front page article by Jim Sumner, FWIW.

[Stray Gator]

Why all the trashing of Hurt? Compare the stat lines of he and Javin. Hurt's are better in about the same time. Hurt was 1 for 1 on field goals, 4 defensive rebounds, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, and 1 block. Javin was 0 for 0 on field goals, 1 defensive rebound, 0 turnovers, and 0 blocks. And, we all know that Hurt can score, and Javin can not. As for defense, sure Hurts struggles, but I did not see Javin stopping anybody last night.

Although the box score does not attribute any turnovers to Javin, I'm pretty sure I recall a pass down to the low block that he fumbled out of bounds, for which I thought the error should have been charged to him. For all that he does well, I'm afraid I still wouldn't trust Javin to catch a pass into the post and finish unless he's standing practically unguarded and the pass doesn't have a lot of zip on it. He's certainly capable, but I believe he just gets too excited with anticipation and becomes discombobulated as a result.

[Duke76]

The good: FG shooting and 3FG were both pretty good, certainly good enough on most days. Carey and Stanley both played pretty well, although Stanley's foul trouble was extremely costly for the team since he missed much of the 2nd half, as was Carey's since he couldn't really play defense down the stretch.
The bad: Valuing the ball, we had 15 turns, and many of them were of the inexcusable lazy pass variety. I could see the steal coming on at least 8 of our turns when we threw unenthusiastic totally telegraphed passes. Credit Clemson for getting up in our grill and making us feel pressure, but we responded badly. Also, rebounding was not good (maybe not bad), but we lost the Oboard and total rebound battles.
The ugly: Blown layups: J-Gold blew 2 layups as did AOC. J-Gold's blown layups came after steals so he kinda cancelled out the good thing he had just done, but man that end of the half miss was pathetic. AOC tried to lay it in over 2 defenders, twice and missed both. Those 4 misses represent more points (8) than the final margin (7). Also, FT shooting. I don't expect Duke to make every FT, but we missed more FTs (10) the final margin (7). Also ugly, the complete disappearance of Hurt, Javin and AOC. Hurt played weak and actively harmed the team, and therefore didn't get much PT, but Javin played his normal amount and was completely ineffective. AOC tried, but just failed.

Overall, this was a game in which Clemson wanted it more and it showed. If Duke had a) shot 67% FTs, and b) made 50% of the blown layups, we win the game. However, we didn't. Missing both Moore and Baker stifled us in a way i hadn't thought of: we didn't have enough wing depth to play small effectively, since Clemson didn't really play a traditional C very much, and our stretch 4 was a no-show, we just didn't have enough versatility on the wing to handle Clemson's various attacking wings, and they absolutely murdered us, particularly Stanley once he got in foul trouble.

K should show every one of those lazy passes that were being made...just really inexcusable to see from all the guys...like they were in another world last night and nothing K could do to shake them....that disease was prevalent last night with our team.... end of story

[devilseven]

Because Hurt scores 11 per game and had two points total. Javin, who didn't score, averages four points per game

All the more reason that Hurt should have played more.

[jv001]

Although the box score does not attribute any turnovers to Javin, I'm pretty sure I recall a pass down to the low block that he fumbled out of bounds, for which I thought the error should have been charged to him. For all that he does well, I'm afraid I still wouldn't trust Javin to catch a pass into the post and finish unless he's standing practically unguarded and the pass doesn't have a lot of zip on it. He's certainly capable, but I believe he just gets too excited with anticipation and becomes discombobulated as a result.

I don't think we should ever run a play that tries to post up Javin for the very reasons you gave. Javin is ok for put backs and dump off passes when another player is double teamed by Javin's man. You described how I see Javin on entry passes to a T.

GoDuke!

[jv001]

All the more reason that Hurt should have played more.

Hindsight but you may be correct. I think Coach K should have gone back to Hurt when it was apparent that some of our guys were gassed and when Cassius got his 4th foul. He still could have used some of the depth that was on the bench. Cassius is one of my favorite players but it was like 4 guys trying to guard 5 at the end of the game. However Duke brought it on themselves by coming out flat. The passes we made looked like a YMCA team. Even Tre was guilty. This game should be a wake up all. Well it should already be in their minds after SFA. GoDuke!

[rsvman]

All the more reason that Hurt should have played more.

He was pretty bad when he was in, though....

[jv001]

He was pretty bad when he was in, though...

Agree but so were Alex and Javin. Goldwire's bricked layups hurt as well but he was good on defense. Alex and Javin not so much. GoDuke!

[Billy Dat]

It’s a double-edged sword. In recent years we have used a 6 man rotation all season. Fans would complain that the bench wasn’t getting any playing time in blowout wins, but it meant that the starters got accustomed to playing big minutes. When we got to the tournament it wasn’t a shock for guys to play 38 minutes because they had been doing it all season. But it also meant that the bench players were unprepared to step up and contribute when called upon because they never got any run.

This season we’ve distributed our minutes really well. We’ve stayed fresh and thrown lots of different looks at our opponents. But as K alluded to in the press conference that you quoted, when we’re in a situation where guys do have to play 30+ minutes then they’re not used to it. Fatigue sets in, which is compounded by the mental fatigue of playing in the road and the game pressure of playing from behind.

I’m not sure what the answer is. An 8 man rotation in which all 8 players contribute feels like the right number in postseason play. I still think that’s eventually what we’ll settle into once everyone is back. In this game we had 8 guys available but Hurt and O’Connell were unplayable so we basically only had 6.

I think the primary difference between this year and recent years is, to quote K, the lack of separation in talent between players 1-10. When he would be asked about a lack of bench, he'd always say that it was more important for the starters to play longer, with the implication being that the best players need to be able to play longer. This year, also to quote K, there is much less of a difference, aside from Tre and Vernon. I think we'd all argue that Cassius is better than Jack and AOC, but not to the same degree that RJ or Zion was better than Jack and AOC. I agree with this view and that our ability to throw different looks at different teams with everyone ready to step up and contribute is unique to this team this year. As such, I feel like K needs to try and keep the depth this year, which would have meant giving AOC, Javin and Hurt some minutes once we came back and pulled ahead to both show them he believes in them and get some rest for Vernon. But, I have no idea whether or not what he saw from those bench guys was so displeasing that he needed to teach them a lesson of some kind, like maybe he saw they just didn't have "it", but I wish he'd tried because I do think depth is our #1 differentiation this year and that if we settle into a 7 man rotation, no matter the 7, we'll be fine/good but not potentially great.

[uh_no]

He was pretty bad when he was in, though...

He was alright on the defensive boards, but a was invisible on offense. it wasn't a 15-trillion on that end of the floor, but it wasn't far off. 1-1, 1TO, 1 assist. With neither hurt nor delaurier earning their time yesterday, having another tall option would have been nice. We joke about the shorter rotation, but it would have helped somewhat last night

[SouthernDukie]

We joke about the shorter rotation, but it would have helped somewhat last night

Absolutely. It was no joking matter last night. I think with our full compliment of players we find a way to win that game. No offense to Clemson, and especially veteran Klem, intended.

[UrinalCake]

In K’s press conference he mentioned Stanley’s third foul, which was initially called a charge but then changed to a block when it was determined that he was inside the charge circle. K said that this is incorrect, that the circle does not apply when defending from the baseline (the physical circle painted on the court does not extend that far back) and that he was never provided with an explanation from the ref.

Can anyone confirm if this is true? That was a huge call, we had gotten a big stop at a critical point in our comeback and instead Clemson got the ball back and drilled a three. Plus it was Cassius’s third foul which was compounded by him committed a frustration foul for his fourth.

[uh_no]

In K’s press conference he mentioned Stanley’s third foul, which was initially called a charge but then changed to a block when it was determined that he was inside the charge circle. K said that this is incorrect, that the circle does not apply when defending from the baseline (the physical circle painted on the court does not extend that far back) and that he was never provided with an explanation from the ref.

Can anyone confirm if this is true? That was a huge call, we had gotten a big stop at a critical point in our comeback and instead Clemson got the ball back and drilled a three. Plus it was Cassius’s third foul which was compounded by him committed a frustration foul for his fourth.

Section 31. Restricted Area
The restricted area is defined as the area bounded by the outer edge of the
restricted-area arc, which has a 4-foot radius measured from the center of the
basket to the inside of the arc line and extending to the face of the backboard.
A secondary defender is considered to be in the restricted area when any part
of either foot is in or above this area.

It doesn't matter if he was defending from the baseline or not, all that matters if any part of his foot is in the area as defined. I didn't see the play to know.

[uh_no]

No offense to Clemson, and especially veteran Klem, intended.

Yeah, we don't need to be giving them any offense. our defense allowed them plenty already.

[SupaDave]

Javin played 14 minutes, about what he's been playing lately. I agree he was almost invisible last night but we need someone to back up Vernon and it's Javin or Robinson. I don't think Coach K is suddenly going to give JRob that many minutes. One thing that I thought really hurt Duke was Cassius getting in foul trouble. Not only is he valuable on offense, he's more valuable on defense, especially with Wendell injured. Stanley's defense was terrible after he got his 4th foul and he admitted it in the postgame. This game should teach these young men that they cannot come out flat in a conference game. Well any game from here on out.

GoDuke!

I will admit I haven't read all the responses but I honestly can't see how Robinson could be worse than Javin. Throw him in there and he's a better shot blocker as far as I'm concerned.

Last night during one particular stretch - a time out was called. Why? Javin was calling for the ball down low claiming he was open and it was either Jordan or Tre who wouldn't throw it to him. That was all I needed to see to let me know how the game was going.

The bad? For me - I really need Stanley to keep his head in the game. His back and forth with the refs looks a bit AAU-ish to me and someone has got to check that.

[kAzE]

I think the greatest positive takeaway from this game is that Coach K definitely knows by now he can't trust AOC.

Get healthy soon, Wendell and Joey . . .

[Steven43]

I think the greatest positive takeaway from this game is that Coach K definitely knows by now he can't trust AOC.

Hmm, not quite sure how that can be construed as a positive. Please explain, thanks.

[JayZee]

Frustrating loss, but those happen from time to time.

The good: Carey and Stanley both had strong offensive games. Goldwire had a pretty strong defensive game (4 steals). White played well too. 3pt shooting and FG% were both pretty good.

The bad: Way too many sloppy turnovers. Jones was unusually sloppy with the ball. Carey, Stanley, Hurt, and O'Connell didn't help matters, contributing 2-3 turnovers each. Free throw shooting was a problem (thankfully, they matched us in FT futility). Rebounding was a problem. You just can't let a team that is SOOOOOO bad at offensive rebounding to outrebound you on the glass. They played to their averages on the offensive end, but completely shut us out on our offensive glass. We needed to at least flip those stats. If we get 7 offensive rebounds to their 4, we probably win a close game, even in spite of them shooting the lights out. FG defense was really bad. When we didn't turn them over, they got good looks. Most of their 3s were WIDE open looks. For a team that denies 3s so well, that's not okay. And they were too efficient at the rim.

A lot of credit to their gameplan and Simms. That guy looked like an All-ACC player, and he has been quietly playing like one all season. This performance probably put him in serious consideration. His ability to score in the post, from 3, and off of drives was on full display. As was his passing. Add in great efforts from Mack and Newton, and we just didn't match them in performance.

Always disappointing to lose. Hopefully it doesn't wind up costing us in the ACC standings. Bouncing back this weekend now looks pretty important.

Don't forget the excellent open layup D that Clemson employed... Felt bad for AOC missing some first half chippies, but not as bad as I felt for JGold. He was clearly rushing/worried he wasn't going to get it off before the buzzer, but he deserved the points.

Count me as one that was not super psyched about Tre's comments. I agree that he and the team came out more than a bit flat. But saying that Clemson didn't do anything special? I don't think that comment gives appropriate respect to Clemson. Simms is clearly a unique player, kind of a point center and they did a great job of spacing us, and getting our defenders on their heels. Congrats to Clemson. Next play.

[kAzE]

Hmm, not quite sure how that can be construed as a positive. Please explain, thanks.

He won't play AOC in close games anymore. At least if we ever get fully healthy.

[SouthernDukie]

He won't play AOC in close games anymore. At least if we ever get fully healthy.

I'm not ready to give up on Alex yet. And I hope Coach hasn't either.