Zion's Baaaaccckkk

[JasonEvans]

More and more, I think he resembles Draymond Green more than anyone. Of course with that much more athleticism.

I mean, they are both basketball players who stand roughly 6-6 and weigh within 25 pounds of 250. So, yeah, they are about a similar as an apple and an orange that are both fruit and are round with a similar sized circumference.

But there are about 1247 things that Zion does in a way Dray cannot even imagine. The guys on ESPN (yeah, I know, lots of shouting heads who live for the hot take and rarely spend more than 30 seconds thinking about the implications of their hot takes) were saying all day that Zion may be even better than we thought coming into the NBA. There are some people who watch the league who are staring to think this dude is a sure-fire Hall of Famer and likely to be among the all-time greats. You can count on one hand the number of guys who have looked this good, this fast in the history of the league.

-Jason "New Orleans got sooooooo lucky on lottery night... franchise altering doesn't even begin to do it justice" Evans

[HereBeforeCoachK]

More and more, I think he resembles Draymond Green more than anyone. Of course with that much more athleticism.

You must have a very high opinion of Draymond....or not so high of Zion. I don't see any resemblance whatsoever.

[Duke76]

I'm gonna need a translation of that...I can't decipher exactly where it's headed...

IMO comparing him to others after we try to it is fruitless...he is like no one before, not Draymond Green, Charles Barkley, not Karl Malone, not Michael, Kobe Lebron. He skill set is inimitable, imo.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

IMO comparing him to others after we try to it is fruitless...he is like no one before, not Draymond Green, Charles Barkley, not Karl Malone, not Michael, Kobe Lebron. He skill set is inimitable, imo.

Agreed....never been anyone like him.

[frb]

I know it's only 9 games in but I don't think Z is getting enough touches. I said the same thing last year at Duke but that's mainly because of RJ playing hero ball. He basically an automatic basket (or draw the foul), why doesn't he touch the ball on virtually every possession? Zion isn't totally innocent in this. He needs to be more assertive at some pt. I don't expect it at age 19 or 20 but there will come a time he's going to have to take charge. Is he just too nice of a kid to do that? He has Lebron/Kobe like ability. He needs their mean streak.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I know it's only 9 games in but I don't think Z is getting enough touches. I said the same thing last year at Duke but that's mainly because of RJ playing hero ball. He basically an automatic basket (or draw the foul), why doesn't he touch the ball on virtually every possession? Zion isn't totally innocent in this. He needs to be more assertive at some pt. I don't expect it at age 19 or 20 but there will come a time he's going to have to take charge. Is he just too nice of a kid to do that? He has Lebron/Kobe like ability. He needs their mean streak.

With all due respect, how do you or anyone outside of Zion and the Pels know what he needs? Why does he have to be like KB or LBJ or anyone else that came before him. Why can’t he just be Zion?

[Indoor66]

It. Is a long game and a long season. He can't survive that kind of usage.

[subzero02]

Zion's production will continue to improve throughout the season if he stays healthy. Lonzo's passing ability definitely increases the number of easy scoring opportunities available each game. If the Pelicans can surround Zion with more players who complement his game, watch out.

Side note: Everytime I see Zion score in the post, I find myself getting angry because I think back to how he was repeatedly mugged by the Spartans down low during his last college game.

[ice-9]

Referee-ing is way better in the NBA than in college...but one big difference is that the Pelicans have good shooters to surround Zion.

Our season would have been so much different if we had reliable perimeter threats. Without those threats, opposing teams are free to clobber Zion.

[subzero02]

http://https://sports.yahoo.com/zion-williamson-is-the-shaquille-oneal-of-nba-small-ball-221842083.html

With the governor on so soon after returning from knee surgery, Zion’s averages extrapolated over 36 minutes are 28 points (on 58/40/63 shooting splits), 10.2 rebounds, 3.1 assists and 1.4 steals and blocks. According to Cleaning the Glass, he is using roughly a little more than a quarter of his team’s possessions in the 27 minutes he is on the floor every night, and it feels like it’s not enough.

[JasonEvans]

http://https://sports.yahoo.com/zion-williamson-is-the-shaquille-oneal-of-nba-small-ball-221842083.html

This is the key line from that article.

The Zion-at-center lineups have been incredible, albeit in 33 minutes of action. Per Cleaning the Glass, the Pelicans are outscoring opponents by 24.9 points per 100 possessions with him in the middle, registering a 119.7 offensive rating and 94.9 defensive rating — both league-best ranks.

Zion at center breaks the NBA, IMO. No NBA big man outside of Giannis has a prayer of guarding him.

[flyingdutchdevil]

More and more, I think he resembles Draymond Green more than anyone. Of course with that much more athleticism.

I'm not sure how you see that resemblance.

Green is a great defender, really good passer, and decent 3pt shooter. 1/3 of his shots are from downtown. His value is in his leadership, defense (he can guard 4 positions and 5 positions on a good day), intangibles, and providing another 3pt shooter (although his 3pt shooting in the last 3 years hasn't been very good).

Zion is a 2pt monster. He rules the paint like no one in the NBA. He is a good passer, but Draymond owns him on this one as of right now. But Zion's two primary issues are also Draymond's strengths: 3pt shooting and defense. After Zion's 3pt barrage in his first game back, he hasn't made one since. And Zion's defense is...ummmm...not good. Can Zion be an elite defender? Absolutely. But fast players in the 1-4 position have burned Zion thus far. He will get better. But I highly doubt he will ever be Draymond good on defense.

I love comparing players to existing/retired players. One of my DBR pet peeves is the usage of "Player X is not Player Y. He's the first Player X". No. There is usually a really good comp out there for nearly all players. With Zion, it's tough. He is a short monster who is already elite at scoring in the paint after 9 NBA games. And he's only going to get better.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Referee-ing is way better in the NBA than in college...but one big difference is that the Pelicans have good shooters to surround Zion.

Our season would have been so much different if we had reliable perimeter threats. Without those threats, opposing teams are free to clobber Zion.

One reason refereeing in the NBA is better...is the NBA has unburdened their officials from ever calling traveling, charging - and as long as the calendar hasn't changed, all continuation is good.

[kAzE]

I'm not sure how you see that resemblance.

Green is a great defender, really good passer, and decent 3pt shooter. 1/3 of his shots are from downtown. His value is in his leadership, defense (he can guard 4 positions and 5 positions on a good day), intangibles, and providing another 3pt shooter (although his 3pt shooting in the last 3 years hasn't been very good).

Zion is a 2pt monster. He rules the paint like no one in the NBA. He is a good passer, but Draymond owns him on this one as of right now. But Zion's two primary issues are also Draymond's strengths: 3pt shooting and defense. After Zion's 3pt barrage in his first game back, he hasn't made one since. And Zion's defense is...ummmm...not good. Can Zion be an elite defender? Absolutely. But fast players in the 1-4 position have burned Zion thus far. He will get better. But I highly doubt he will ever be Draymond good on defense.

I love comparing players to existing/retired players. One of my DBR pet peeves is the usage of "Player X is not Player Y. He's the first Player X". No. There is usually a really good comp out there for nearly all players. With Zion, it's tough. He is a short monster who is already elite at scoring in the paint after 9 NBA games. And he's only going to get better.

Other than the fact that they play the same position (power forward/center), I agree there's not much resemblance. Zion is an elite scorer already, and Draymond has never been an effective scorer. There are only 2 players in the history of the NBA who have scored more points than Zion in their first 9 games: Shaquille O'Neal and Allen Iverson. That's it. Draymond has averaged over 11 points per game only once in his entire career. Offensively, Zion can do things that no one in the NBA can do because he's just bigger, faster, and jumps higher than 90% of the players in the league. His physical ability sets him apart. Draymond isn't anywhere near that level of athlete, but IMO, he's the smartest player in the league.

Zion is a very high IQ player, but he's no Draymond Green. Draymond is in the 99.99 percentile for basketball IQ in the NBA. At his peak, he was easily the best overall defensive player in the league, even with Kawhi in his prime. Kawhi was probably the better on-ball defender, but Draymond's ability to see plays develop 2 or 3 steps ahead of everyone else on the court is on another level. This is also why he's such an incredible play maker. Zion's probably at around 80% of Draymond's IQ, and I could even see him making 1st all-defense some day, but I generally agree that he will never be as good defensively as Draymond. That's an impossible ask for almost any player.

However, I think you're giving Draymond way too much credit for his shooting. I wouldn't call that one of his strengths. He's been a passable shooter in the past, but outside of a 3 year run where he shot 33.3%, 33.7%, and then 38.8% from deep, he has been 30% or worse. The strategy of most teams in defending the Warriors during their best years was to allow Draymond to shoot wide open shots, because that was basically the least deadly poison you could pick. It makes sense that the year he shot 38% was the 73 win season. Draymond is a slightly better free throw shooter, but there's no reason to believe that Zion can't be as good or better than Draymond as a 3 point shooter.

The best similarity that I can come up with for the two guys is that they can both be called "point centers", except Draymond is like the Gary Payton version, and Zion is like the Russell Westbrook version . . .

[wavedukefan70s]

Z will be one of the goat by the time his career is over .

[JayZee]

I mean, they are both basketball players who stand roughly 6-6 and weigh within 25 pounds of 250. So, yeah, they are about a similar as an apple and an orange that are both fruit and are round with a similar sized circumference.

But there are about 1247 things that Zion does in a way Dray cannot even imagine. The guys on ESPN (yeah, I know, lots of shouting heads who live for the hot take and rarely spend more than 30 seconds thinking about the implications of their hot takes) were saying all day that Zion may be even better than we thought coming into the NBA. There are some people who watch the league who are staring to think this dude is a sure-fire Hall of Famer and likely to be among the all-time greats. You can count on one hand the number of guys who have looked this good, this fast in the history of the league.

-Jason "New Orleans got sooooooo lucky on lottery night... franchise altering doesn't even begin to do it justice" Evans

I agree. My point was mostly about being a 6'6" guy with extreme intelligence, great playmaker, super rebounder, mediocre outside shot. Zion clearly has a major athleticism advantage. But watch Dray play post D. He is so smart and strong which allows him to cover anything from the 1 to 5. Similar to Zion. They both have great instincts and have the reaction time to act on those instincts.

Clearly Zion's hops and shake and overall body control could take him to an entire extra level, which is why the expectations are so high. But Dray is the basically the key that unlocked one of the best NBA runs of all time. Take him off the Warriors and they are still great, but very possibly nowhere near the same team.

[JayZee]

I agree. My point was mostly about being a 6'6" guy with extreme intelligence, great playmaker, super rebounder, mediocre outside shot. Zion clearly has a major athleticism advantage. But watch Dray play post D. He is so smart and strong which allows him to cover anything from the 1 to 5. Similar to Zion. They both have great instincts and have the reaction time to act on those instincts.

Clearly Zion's hops and shake and overall body control could take him to an entire extra level, which is why the expectations are so high. But Dray is the basically the key that unlocked one of the best NBA runs of all time. Take him off the Warriors and they are still great, but very possibly nowhere near the same team.

I should have added - a 6'6" playmaker that can defend the 5 and thus unlock a ridiculous lineup advantage.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I should have added - a 6'6" playmaker that can defend the 5 and thus unlock a ridiculous lineup advantage.

So...PJ Tucker? Zion is only averaging 2.3 assists per game compared to PJ's 1.6 (although that will surely go up throughout his career).

[kAzE]

So...PJ Tucker? Zion is only averaging 2.3 assists per game compared to PJ's 1.6 (although that will surely go up throughout his career).

Tucker is 6'5" and I don't think anyone would describe him as a playmaker. Nobody on that team other than Harden and Westbrook gets to dribble the ball.

I think there's about 4 guys who can play the "point center" position in the NBA (defend 5s and be a primary ball handler on their team's offense): Zion, Draymond, Giannis, Nikola Jokic

Honorable mention: Bam Adebayo and Domantas Sabonis are getting pretty close to 5 assists a game, too.

Zion will eventually get his assist numbers up, especially once the game slows down for him, but right now, he doesn't need to make plays for others most of the time. The highest percentage play for him when he gets in the paint is to take it himself.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Tucker is 6'5" and I don't think anyone would describe him as a playmaker. Nobody on that team other than Harden and Westbrook gets to dribble the ball.

I think there's about 4 guys who can play the "point center" position in the NBA (defend 5s and be a primary ball handler on their team's offense): Zion, Draymond, Giannis, Nikola Jokic

Honorable mention: Bam Adebayo and Domantas Sabonis are getting pretty close to 5 assists a game, too.

Zion will eventually get his assist numbers up, especially once the game slows down for him, but right now, he doesn't need to make plays for others most of the time. The highest percentage play for him when he gets in the paint is to take it himself.

If you read the context and the posts that I’ve been writing above, you’ll see I’m being very facetious.

Also, I think Zion as a playmaker is very overrated. He wasn’t bad at Duke and his assist numbers aren’t great in the NBA. He’ll be an okay playmaker, and that’s okay. Because the Pellies have Ball, who is elite. Also, Ingram ain’t bad.