Zion's Baaaaccckkk

[bundabergdevil]

I'm sure it's sold out...NBA and NHL games often have empty seats first quarter...

Yeah, maybe the tickets are technically sold out but they just did a fan cam dance and there are entire rows in the upper sections completely empty. This was not long after Zion took his 2nd quarter breather. I read somewhere that tickets on the resale marketplaces jumped 1000% after Zion's announced return. Maybe the resale market needs to settle down and stabilize.

[JetpackJesus]

I think Zion just blocked that ball into the upper level.

[bundabergdevil]

I think Zion just blocked that ball into the upper level.

Just a pleasure to see him doing that sort of stuff again...now if the Pels could stop turning it over!

[duke4ever19]

Zion's teammates completely wasted his 4th quarter minutes with some incredibly stupid turnovers.

[JetpackJesus]

Zion's teammates completely wasted his 4th quarter minutes with some incredibly stupid turnovers.

The Pels would be up so much right now if they didn't shoot themselves in the foot so many times.

[duke4ever19]

The Pels would be up so much right now if they didn't shoot themselves in the foot so many times.

Yep. Besides that 4th quarter, Zion on the floor = carving into the lead.

[bundabergdevil]

Yep. Besides that 4th quarter, Zion on the floor = carving into the lead.

Zion's a +16, the highest plus/minus of any player on either team this evening...by a lot. It's just 2 games but he's shooting 75%. I'm very curious to see if he's able to maintain his ridiculous efficiency over the course of a NBA season.

[roywhite]

Yep. Besides that 4th quarter, Zion on the floor = carving into the lead.

Yeah, +/- stats often don't tell the whole story, but Zion's +16 really stands out.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161318

[SkyBrickey]

Disappointed that he’s now down to 80% from 3 on the season...

[JayZee]

2 games in his PER is over 38. Dude is ridiculous

[Tooold]

I loved his hops in this game. The block was ridiculous, but also his quick bounce was on full display on offense and defense. Really fun to watch.

[bundabergdevil]

They're doing a little Zion timeline on ESPN this morning. They flashed a video from 2014 of this lanky young guy saying he wasn't on any college radars. I almost couldn't believe it was Zion. The transformation he's gone through in the last 5 years is astonishing.

[SouthernDukie]

It really is just a pleasure to watch Zion play when he's healthy. He's absolutely captivating and impossible to take your eyes off of (and yes, I'm a man and I clearly have a man crush).

Hated that both of his games back have been losses. Clearly not his fault at all, but losses nonetheless when the Pelicans are trying to claw their way back to that 8th spot. It will take the entire team playing lights out for the next 3 months if they are going to make up the ground they have lost and reach the postseason. Here's hoping they can get in a groove and make it happen.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It really is just a pleasure to watch Zion play when he's healthy. He's absolutely captivating and impossible to take your eyes off of (and yes, I'm a man and I clearly have a man crush).

Hated that both of his games back have been losses. Clearly not his fault at all, but losses nonetheless when the Pelicans are trying to claw their way back to that 8th spot. It will take the entire team playing lights out for the next 3 months if they are going to make up the ground they have lost and reach the postseason. Here's hoping they can get in a groove and make it happen.

All they need is for Zion to be able to go 30+ minutes...have you seen his plus/minus? Pelicans win while he's in there....they lose when he's not. He was +16 last night IN A LOSS. That's unheard of. Meanwhile, our boy JJ, was -23...even as he was scoring. Mind boggling.

[jv001]

All they need is for Zion to be able to go 30+ minutes...have you seen his plus/minus? Pelicans win while he's in there...they lose when he's not. He was +16 last night IN A LOSS. That's unheard of. Meanwhile, our boy JJ, was -23...even as he was scoring. Mind boggling.

The +/- is not my favorite metric of how well a player performed. Like last nights game. It seemed to be on point with Zion but way off on JJ.

GoDuke!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The +/- is not my favorite metric of how well a player performed. Like last nights game. It seemed to be on point with Zion but way off on JJ.

GoDuke!

It's not really so much reflection of how a single player performs, as much as it is a measurement of how the whole team performs when a given player is in the game. In the short run, it can certainly be misleading...but over time, it is a valid measurement (not counting mop up minute players only....). Zion was great +/- at Duke, and when you look at his offensive efficiency and his rebounding/shot blocking...it makes sense that he's a very valuable +/- player. When Zion can play 30-36 minutes, the Pels will be much better.

[duke4ever19]

It's not really so much reflection of how a single player performs, as much as it is a measurement of how the whole team performs when a given player is in the game. In the short run, it can certainly be misleading...but over time, it is a valid measurement (not counting mop up minute players only...). Zion was great +/- at Duke, and when you look at his offensive efficiency and his rebounding/shot blocking...it makes sense that he's a very valuable +/- player. When Zion can play 30-36 minutes, the Pels will be much better.

I agree. People try to either validate or invalidate certain metrics if they seem even a little bit unreliable, but I think it's better to see something like +/- as part of a collection of somewhat flawed metrics that can come together to tell a broader story that is more accurate than any one of its parts.

[sagegrouse]

It's not really so much reflection of how a single player performs, as much as it is a measurement of how the whole team performs when a given player is in the game. In the short run, it can certainly be misleading...but over time, it is a valid measurement (not counting mop up minute players only...). Zion was great +/- at Duke, and when you look at his offensive efficiency and his rebounding/shot blocking...it makes sense that he's a very valuable +/- player. When Zion can play 30-36 minutes, the Pels will be much better.

I am far too busy these days, but Kedsy has lots of time to give you examples of how the +/- can be misleading on a season-long basis. Hint: it may have to do with "pattern substitution."

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am far too busy these days, but Kedsy has lots of time to give you examples of how the +/- can be misleading on a season-long basis. Hint: it may have to do with "pattern substitution."

Are you really trying to say it's not part of a valid metric? For that matter, final scores can be invalid because sometimes the team that plays the best loses. But it's valid over time.
If Kedsy will be honest about it, EVERY SINGLE METRIC ever devised "can be" misleading...including +/-. Also, like every metric ever devised, it is more valid with a larger sample size. I would also add that the +/- with Zion also matches the eye test. And FTR, pattern substitution is not applicable in this case, not so far.

[sagegrouse]

Are you really trying to say it's not part of a valid metric? For that matter, final scores can be invalid because sometimes the team that plays the best loses. But it's valid over time.
If Kedsy will be honest about it, EVERY SINGLE METRIC ever devised "can be" misleading...including +/-. Also, like every metric ever devised, it is more valid with a larger sample size. I would also add that the +/- with Zion also matches the eye test. And FTR, pattern substitution is not applicable in this case, not so far.

You were the one extolling the virtures of +/- as a "valid" long-term measure. Now, (a) you are saying that final scores can be "invalid" measures and (b) you are attacking Kedsy rather than me. I don't think Kedsy is even reading this thread.

Don't worry -- I'm just pulling your chain.