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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Now several people (including apparently a member of Beltran's family) are saying that the Astros moved away from banging a garbage can or whistling to instead having players wear devices taped to their inside shoulder that would buzz to signal the pitch type. This continued through 2019 and included Altuve's walk-off home run against Chapman to clinch the 2019 ALCS (note that Altuve held his jersey shut and refused to let anyone tear it off as he returned to the plate). There are various photos of the alleged devices floating around on Twitter, along with a growing pool of pseudo-analysis of inside shoulders and outlines that are shaped like the wire/device. If true, it suggests that the team became better at their cheating over time and continued using it, as opposed to simply abandoning something that had delivered them a World Series title. More to come, perhaps.

    Like every single member of the Astros organization, Jessica Mendoza can kick rocks.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Now several people (including apparently a member of Beltran's family) are saying that the Astros moved away from banging a garbage can or whistling to instead having players wear devices taped to their inside shoulder that would buzz to signal the pitch type. This continued through 2019 and included Altuve's walk-off home run against Chapman to clinch the 2019 ALCS (note that Altuve held his jersey shut and refused to let anyone tear it off as he returned to the plate). There are various photos of the alleged devices floating around on Twitter, along with a growing pool of pseudo-analysis of inside shoulders and outlines that are shaped like the wire/device. If true, it suggests that the team became better at their cheating over time and continued using it, as opposed to simply abandoning something that had delivered them a World Series title. More to come, perhaps.
    And boom goes the dynamite.

    Floodgates opening?

    time to marshal your metaphors!

    [Reminds me of a certain historical presidential debate.]

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    And boom goes the dynamite.

    Floodgates opening?

    time to marshal your metaphors!

    [Reminds me of a certain historical presidential debate.]
    We'll see; it could be nothing (e.g., a shoulder was legitimately taped for medical reasons, another one is just an undershirt bunched up, etc.). But pitcher Trevor Bauer is now claiming he was told by "multiple parties" about the buzzers before, so even if turns out to not be true, the story will probably get some traction for a while.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    There is an aspect of all this that makes no sense to me... free agents and trades.

    Unlike college where most players spend their entire time with the same club (lets not get into a discussion about transfers, please), there is a ton of player movement in pro sports. I mean, it would not be uncommon for 10+ players on your 25 man active roster to change over in the course of a year.

    So, what happens when those players who knew about the cheating (if they had buzzers on their shoulders, they knew about the cheating) go to a new team? What happens when a guy who is new to the team but who is friendly with a pitcher on a rival team finds out about the buzzers? Did Houston actually think they were going to keep this secret? It just doesn't make sense to me.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    There is an aspect of all this that makes no sense to me... free agents and trades.

    Unlike college where most players spend their entire time with the same club (lets not get into a discussion about transfers, please), there is a ton of player movement in pro sports. I mean, it would not be uncommon for 10+ players on your 25 man active roster to change over in the course of a year.

    So, what happens when those players who knew about the cheating (if they had buzzers on their shoulders, they knew about the cheating) go to a new team? What happens when a guy who is new to the team but who is friendly with a pitcher on a rival team finds out about the buzzers? Did Houston actually think they were going to keep this secret? It just doesn't make sense to me.
    Based on what we know (regarding the trashcan banging and whistles), 99% of the people who knew about that scheme kept quiet about it for over two years. Some (e.g., Hinch, Beltran) even lied publicly about it. If it weren't for Fiers speaking up now, it probably never would have come out, and no punishments ever would have come down.

    The buzzers (if true) would actually be easier to keep quiet in the clubhouse than the trashcan, as you could control who gets let in on it (as opposed to smashing a trashcan that everyone in the dugout can clearly hear). The only people who would know about it--other than the staff decoding the signs and sending the signals--are the people directly benefiting from it (i.e., the hitters whose stats and legacies would be tainted if the truth ever came out and who thus have an incentive to keep it quiet). And there would be no hard evidence for outsiders to grasp that something was even going on (unlike the audio evidence we have from 2017 clips), so it would be easier to deny after the fact.

    Boras has issued a statement on behalf of Altuve denying that he ever used an electronic device in-game in such a manner, FWIW.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post

    Boras has issued a statement on behalf of Altuve denying that he ever used an electronic device in-game in such a manner, FWIW.
    Oh! Well, that settles it for me, I guess. Nothing to see here ...





    One thing I think that will come of this is that pitchers and catchers are going to get better at mixing up their signs, a la the "Natinals".

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    One thing I think that will come of this is that pitchers and catchers are going to get better at mixing up their signs, a la the "Natinals".
    They may also get worse at painting the inside corner when facing the Astros.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    No vacated titles?

  9. #49
    New England Patriots: <crickets>
    ~rthomas

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    New England Patriots: <crickets>
    IMHO, where the H disappeared with my Houston support, 100 times worse than anything the Patriots have even been accused of.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    I'm curious why MLB has not announced anything w/r/t Alex Cora.

    I don't suppose it could have anything to do with his not being currently employed, could it? Can you suspend someone who isn't employed?

    If not, what options do they have short of a ban, a la Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose?

    The only thing that came to mind was an "indefinite" ban, where they could rescind it when they like. Sort of like when GA was given that by Coach K. It didn't last long, but if MLB did it, they'd probably go at least a year (to match Hinch), probably more. But I really don't see a lifetime ban for trying to win by breaking the rules (often those who do so think that everyone else is breaking rules, so they feel they'd better cheat at least as much to keep it "fair").

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    I'm curious why MLB has not announced anything w/r/t Alex Cora.

    I don't suppose it could have anything to do with his not being currently employed, could it? Can you suspend someone who isn't employed?
    It's not about his employment, they suspended Taubman (not for cheating) even though he'd already lost his job. They're investigating the Red Sox, and said they're holding a ruling on Cora until that's finished.
    Demented and sad, but social, right?

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Hall of Fame

    A Nats fan was in Cooperstown this weekend and took this picture of the Astros’ exhibit. No word if he banged on the trash can. C112D88B-BBFD-46A6-9524-D19A791CA5F7.jpg

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post
    And my goodness can you imagine what it would be like to see a game where both sides tried to lose?
    I guess you've never watched a Pirates-Marlins game.

    At least that's what it seems like.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada (Ohio born and raised)
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    IMHO, where the H disappeared with my Houston support, 100 times worse than anything the Patriots have even been accused of.
    Wasn’t spygate all based on the stealing of offensive/defensive signals so they could be recognized in games and relayed to the players?

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    Wasn’t spygate all based on the stealing of offensive/defensive signals so they could be recognized in games and relayed to the players?
    Here's one write-up on scandal, per Wiki:

    Spygate was an incident during the National Football League's (NFL) 2007 season, when the New England Patriots were disciplined by the league for videotaping New York Jets' defensive coaches' signals from an unauthorized location during a September 9, 2007 game. Videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL de jure, but there are designated areas allowed by the league to do such taping. Because the Patriots were instead videotaping the Jets' coaches from their own sideline during the game, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell deemed it to be in violation of league rules, stating that the act represented a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field. After an investigation, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000 (the maximum allowed by the league and the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in the league's 87-year history) for his role in the incident, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft which would have been the 31st pick of the draft.
    The Pats were collecting information that could provide some basis for intercepting signals (don't defensive coaches use headphones?). The Astros ran a full-fledged, season-long communication system alerting batters to upcoming pitches. I see a difference.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    This is getting worse, much worse. The rest of the league is very, very angry with how it's being handled and the level of remorse (barely any) shown by the Astros.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    This is getting worse, much worse. The rest of the league is very, very angry with how it's being handled and the level of remorse (barely any) shown by the Astros.
    I have grown tired of the endless scroll on ESPN about Carlos Correa's comments. Sory bud, you cheated.

    I'm probably being petty in another thread.

  19. #59
    Everyone knows they are only apologizing because they got caught. There is no real contrition. Even token gestures like donating playoff shares to charity - which is a drop in the bucket for the guys on the higher end of the salary scale.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Dusty Baker is asking MLB to take preemptive action to ensure Houston players are not beaned by 50 fastballs the first week of the season. I think this is wise on his part but may not matter. If Houston does not lead the league in hit by pitch it will be truly shocking.
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

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