Houston baseball cheating

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I am curious about how the Astros diaspora is being treated - there were plenty of guys on these teams that are no longer with the Astros, such as Marwin Gonzalez and Jake Marisnick. There is clearly a lot of hatred towards the players who were involved - are these guys also getting hate from their new teammates? I heard some talk on NY sports talk radio about Cole and how he seemed to largely blow off a question about it. I think pitchers are generally not getting as much grief as the hitters and coaches are, even though it is hard to believe that they were not aware and at least indirectly benefitted.

[-jk]

A former relief pitcher, Mike Bolsinger, is suing the Astros. He claims they derailed his career.

Toward the middle of the 2017 season, I was transitioning into the role of relief pitcher. My first few games as a reliever made me optimistic: This could be my future in baseball. Then came the Astros game on Aug. 4, 2017, in Houston.

I remember the game vividly, because it was my last and worst​ ​in major league baseball. The stadium was packed. I live in Texas, so my wife and her friends were there. The Astros got off to a lead, and I was brought in during the fourth inning. The Astros seemed to know every pitch that was coming. I threw 29 pitches, and the Astros scored four runs off me in one-third of an inning before I was taken out. My pitches were getting smashed, and I ended up walking a few batters because the Astros appeared to know when to lay off. The postgame recaps said I had unraveled. I knew as I left the mound that this could be it; for a journeyman pitcher, a game that bad could be his last.

After the game, I recall, the Astros bragged during interviews about how well they had played. I was immediately designated for assignment by the Blue Jays — which means I was cut from the team’s 40-man roster.

Interesting case.

-jk

[El_Diablo]

I am curious about how the Astros diaspora is being treated - there were plenty of guys on these teams that are no longer with the Astros, such as Marwin Gonzalez and Jake Marisnick. There is clearly a lot of hatred towards the players who were involved - are these guys also getting hate from their new teammates? I heard some talk on NY sports talk radio about Cole and how he seemed to largely blow off a question about it. I think pitchers are generally not getting as much grief as the hitters and coaches are, even though it is hard to believe that they were not aware and at least indirectly benefitted.

Hard to say as of yet, as pitchers and catchers just reported, so direct teammate interactions have been relatively limited. I assume it will come down to how much their team was impacted (e.g., the Marlins were not really impacted, whereas the Yankees and Dodgers were eliminated from the playoffs by the cheaters) as well as how the ex-Astro player himself handles it. Marwin Gonzalez seemed to give a thoughtful and sincere apology; Keuchel not quite as sincere but still better than most of the current Astros.

The Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs by the Astros in 2017 (when Cole was still on the Pirates) and 2019 (when no direct evidence of cheating has been found as of yet). Cole was with the Astros in 2018 (when the cheating scheme continued for at least a little while), so there may be some tension among his new teammates. Yankee fans will probably be able to develop a blind spot in their outrage when it comes to him, so long as he isn't a complete jerk/tool about it like Correa.

The Dodgers recently had one ex-Astros player (Tyler White) on their roster who was with the Astros during their 2017-2018 cheating window. He likely would have been in an uncomfortable position with his new teammates, but thankfully he was DFA'd last week to help make room for Betts, Price and Graterol. Dodger fans were mostly happy to see him go (to the extent they knew who he was, as he was a recent acquisition and did not play much, and he was not even on the Astros' 2017 playoff roster and thus did not directly impact the Dodgers in the World Series).

[weezie]

...If Houston does not lead the league in hit by pitch it will be truly shocking.

Manfred will likely warn teams and it will be an auto ejection and possibly suspension for a game for manager, pitcher and catcher. Houston may get booed but they'll keep skating.

[Blue in the Face]

Manfred will likely warn teams and it will be an auto ejection and possibly suspension for a game for manager, pitcher and catcher. Houston may get booed but they'll keep skating.

I don't think guys are going to get plunked left and right, but it's not really practical, or fair, for teams to be under a blanket warning every game. Pitching inside is part of the game - it's one thing to take that away a day after a bunch of guys got hit, but to have a standing order season-long that if one gets away when facing the Astros you're gone isn't fair. I don't know what the answer is, obviously cheaters or not you can't just have it be open season for them to get plunked all the time, and possibly injured. But I don't think you can just put the rest of the league on perpetual warning.

[Mike_Es]

I am curious about how the Astros diaspora is being treated - there were plenty of guys on these teams that are no longer with the Astros, such as Marwin Gonzalez and Jake Marisnick. There is clearly a lot of hatred towards the players who were involved - are these guys also getting hate from their new teammates? I heard some talk on NY sports talk radio about Cole and how he seemed to largely blow off a question about it. I think pitchers are generally not getting as much grief as the hitters and coaches are, even though it is hard to believe that they were not aware and at least indirectly benefitted.

Why would they use those cameras then?? Why would they do anything if hitters not involved. "Okay, we know the signs. What's next?". Do not be so naive...

[Bluedog]

Why would they use those cameras then?? Why would they do anything if hitters not involved. "Okay, we know the signs. What's next?". Do not be so naive...

CrazieNotCrazie said pitchers on HOU not hitters. But even he suggested they likely knew but just didn't benefit much or necessarily need to know given they're on the other side of the pitch and don't bat.

[throatybeard]

I fully support the other 29 teams in baseball throwing baseballs at the cheating 2000-2016 Patriots, principally their head coach.

Wait. Is that what we're talking about?

[A-Tex Devil]

I am an Astros fan since ‘81 and agree that they need to take all of the figurative lumps given and don’t deserve any benefit of the doubt.

And it disappoints me that Crane blew the apology... again. There is/was nothing the players could say at this point that is going to change anything outside a full, league-wide truth and reconciliation amnesty program (recognizing Astros would and should still take their punishment). That’s not going to happen though as the league clearly wants to move in and not put any more sunlight on this based on the subsequent undisclosed “punishments” of Boston and NYY.

So the Astros should have just concisely apologized, concede they will be heels for a while and just win. That’s all they can do. “I’m sorry we did it. We have been punished by the commissioner. We understand people are going to be angry for a while. All we can do is play baseball now.” Over and over and over, all season long. Gray rock the press. Crane screwed it up though with whatever rationalizations he tried to make. And I appreciate Correa’s fire, but he didn’t do himself any favors outside the Astros fan base either.

I do chuckle, though, that the Red Sox just got fined for 2018 actions and the Dodgers are welcoming Mookie Betts with open arms.

[JasonEvans]

I do chuckle, though, that the Red Sox just got fined for 2018 actions and the Dodgers are welcoming Mookie Betts with open arms.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

[bundabergdevil]

I fully support the other 29 teams in baseball throwing baseballs at the cheating 2000-2016 Patriots, principally their head coach.

Wait. Is that what we're talking about?

Or Jay Bilas...am I right or am I right?!?!


I kid, I kid...

[Acymetric]

We should probably just cancel baseball permanently, honestly.

[MChambers]

I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with John Feinstein: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...a77_story.html

[HereBeforeCoachK]

We should probably just cancel baseball permanently, honestly.

"...if you aint' cheatin, you ain't tryin..."

Apologies is someone upthread already said that. I think I first heard it about NASCAR...

[bundabergdevil]

Heard an amusing sports talk debate with the following question: Worse for their sport, Houston Astros or Houston Rockets?

[mkirsh]

Here is the best summary of the Astros apology I have seen



My proposed solution would be for every year the Astros were proven to have been cheating (2017 and 2018 at least), MLB should fine each batter $1000 per plate appearance and pay those $ out to the pitchers who faced them. It penalizes the people who used it the most, and for the starters like Altuve and Bergman it would amount to around $600k-$700k per year, a hefty fine. And no player would want to be fined in the future for his teammates cheating, so it would put pressure on players to police from within. Will never happen but I think it is more fair that throwing baseballs at them all year.

[A-Tex Devil]

Here is the best summary of the Astros apology I have seen



My proposed solution would be for every year the Astros were proven to have been cheating (2017 and 2018 at least), MLB should fine each batter $1000 per plate appearance and pay those $ out to the pitchers who faced them. It penalizes the people who used it the most, and for the starters like Altuve and Bergman it would amount to around $600k-$700k per year, a hefty fine. And no player would want to be fined in the future for his teammates cheating, so it would put pressure on players to police from within. Will never happen but I think it is more fair that throwing baseballs at them all year.

Great idea in theory. I countersign on behalf of the Astros. They’d take it in a heartbeat if it would shut up the other players. It won’t.

I am starting to think the reputation and muck the Astros will be raked through this season and beyond, and the after effects may be punishment enough. I think guys like George Springer are less likely to re-sign. I think free agents won’t come. I think front offices may embargo Astros on trades. Who knows?

But Manfred gave the players immunity. That’s on him.

[acdevil]

Manfred is putting on a master class on what not to do in a crisis.

[budwom]

Manfred is putting on a master class on what not to do in a crisis.

Indeed he has, and the Astros owner has revealed himself to be an utter moron.

Altuve is not a large target, but if I were him, I'd armor up this season...

[weezie]

How about we pick a deserving fan to bash Crane in the head, on the mound, with a pig bladder for five minutes at every away game across the country?
Then a kiester boot.