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  1. #1

    Most Inconsistently Called Fouls in College Basketball?

    What do you think are the most inconsistently called [frustrating, violence (remotes hurled at TVs, etc.) inducing] fouls in college basketball?

    I could have chosen "most difficult" foul calls, but some might say that certain calls are not that difficult to make -- they just aren't called consistently. Balls and strikes in baseball might come to mind.

    I'm interested in why you think the calls are made inconsistently. Perhaps it is the inherent difficulty, perhaps rule ambiguity, perhaps refs' habits, perhaps a tendency by the refs to make the safe, conventional call.

    Getting the conversation started, my vote for one of the most inconsistently made calls is that made against post defenders when they are called for blocking after appearing to stand still, perfectly straight, arms and hands held high. Bilas almost always finds some minute, aesthetic defect in the statuary pose of such a defender. I'm dubious.

    I'm interested to hear what y'all think.
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  2. #2
    To me, it's the hand checking/outright fouling that certain teams get away with on the perimeter that frustrates me the most. All you have to do is build up a reputation *cough Virginia* for being a pesky defensive *cough West Virginia* team and the refs will let you get away with fouling every possession. So that's the inconsistent thing I immediately think of.

    Also the block/charge, like you mention. Honestly, the game of basketball would be monstrously improved if they just banned the charge. Standing still while the offensive player attempts to score isn't defense. You either try to stop the shot or you get called for a foul. None of this bailing out bad defense anymore, imo.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    I’d say calling big guys for fouls when they’re fighting for position in the post. Most of the time they’re allowed to bang in there, but then randomly a guy gets called when it’s no different than what has been happening all game.

    I also don’t like when the shooter initiates contact by leaning into the defender and it gets the benefit of the call.

    Moving screens don’t get called very often, and almost never in the pros. But it seems frequent that I’ll see a screener stick out his hip as the defender tries to go around, or start diving to the basket too early. They seem really easy to spot, at least from my view potatoing it on the couch, and I wish refs called them more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sea Island, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post

    Moving screens don’t get called very often, and almost never in the pros. But it seems frequent that I’ll see a screener stick out his hip as the defender tries to go around, or start diving to the basket too early. They seem really easy to spot, at least from my view potatoing it on the couch, and I wish refs called them more.
    Moving screens bug me the most...I, too, seem to notice them a lot from my couch and there are certain teams that seem to set them a lot (not going to name names...) The really egregious ones are actually dangerous.

    But I agree with the other choices as well. I think, like in youth hockey, some officials have their “favorite” calls and they look for those (e.g., hand checks). Those refs seem less able to see other things.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Thomasville, NC
    Block/charge.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I’d say calling big guys for fouls when they’re fighting for position in the post. Most of the time they’re allowed to bang in there, but then randomly a guy gets called when it’s no different than what has been happening all game.

    I also don’t like when the shooter initiates contact by leaning into the defender and it gets the benefit of the call.

    Moving screens don’t get called very often, and almost never in the pros. But it seems frequent that I’ll see a screener stick out his hip as the defender tries to go around, or start diving to the basket too early. They seem really easy to spot, at least from my view potatoing it on the couch, and I wish refs called them more.
    Is there clarity on the rule (before you make the ref the culprit?)? Can you foul a guy with your rump, backing up and getting position when you are in a scrum? You'd think that you could, but I've never seen that called. When you fight for position would seem to be very important for when a call would be made. The principle of verticality should seem to be just as valid gaining position as playing defense. Although an offensive player can only be in the lane for 3 seconds (theoretically).

    Larry
    DevilHorse

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I’d say calling big guys for fouls when they’re fighting for position in the post. Most of the time they’re allowed to bang in there, but then randomly a guy gets called when it’s no different than what has been happening all game. I also don’t like when the shooter initiates contact by leaning into the defender and it gets the benefit of the call. Moving screens don’t get called very often...
    Post of the thread. Absolutely agree.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    palming

    3 seconds

    5 seconds

    block/charge
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  9. #9
    I'm not sure of the exact term, but inside the player's arc is pretty controversial. It happens mainly during double teams, and I see a lot of inconsistency with that particular call.

  10. #10
    Non-calls: traveling, palming, double dribble, three seconds, all of which happen frequently but are seldom called

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    5 seconds
    Are you referring to the “five second closely guarded” rule? I thought they eliminated that several years ago?

    Or do you mean having five seconds to inbound the ball? That does seem very inconsistent to me. The ref waving his arm back and forth isn’t exactly Swiss timing, though I recognize the inherent difficulty in what they are being asked to do.

  12. #12

    Can anyone enlighten?

    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Post of the thread. Absolutely agree.
    That's how I see it. Lots of banging going on, pretty much non-stop, then all of a sudden, someone gets flagged. Must be how a hapless gazelle feels being singled out by the big cats when there are hundreds in the herd. Why me? Why now?

    Seriously, do any of you believe that these kinds of fouls on big men are not capricious? What are we not seeing? Please break the code.
    “I love it. Coach, when we came here, we had a three-hour meeting about the core values. If you really represent the core values, it means diving on the floor, sacrificing your body for your teammates, no matter how much you’re up by or how much you’re down by, always playing hard.” -- Zion

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Agree with all above but one other thing that drives me crazy is when a player is about to make an easy, open layup and the defender makes a last ditch (and half-hearted) swipe at the ball that makes either the slightest contact that in no way affects the shot or none at all. So many times an “and 1” is given.Yet, in most other driving situations the player has to be hammered to get the “and 1” call.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta 'burbs

    In no particular order

    Coaches out of the coaches box, even sometimes being on the court during live action (Looking at you Buzz and Josh)

    3 second rule

    Palming

    Ball handler pushing off with non-dribbling hand (Looking at you Cassius Winston)

    And, even though it is years too late . . . Hanstraveling!!!

    Teddy Valentine


    Obviously, I'm not a big ref fan.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rent free in tarheels’ heads
    Three second rule.

    Frustrating to see offensive players being allowed to camp out in the lane. You’re supposed to leave the lane with BOTH feet before re-entering. But guys often shift just a little, stick a foot across the line and keep on keeping on with no violation. Puts the defender at a serious disadvantage (and at risk for a foul) to have to keep fighting a player illegally occupying space in the lane.
    “Coach said no 3s.” - Zion on The Block

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Three second rule.

    Frustrating to see offensive players being allowed to camp out in the lane. You’re supposed to leave the lane with BOTH feet before re-entering. But guys often shift just a little, stick a foot across the line and keep on keeping on with no violation. Puts the defender at a serious disadvantage (and at risk for a foul) to have to keep fighting a player illegally occupying space in the lane.
    Your understanding of the rule is wrong.

    Art. 2. It is a violation for a player to have any part of his body remain in the
    three-second lane
    for more than three consecutive seconds while the ball is in
    control of that player’s team in his frontcourt.
    All a player must do is have one foot outside the lane, and lift the other foot, at which point, no part of their body is "in the lane." Note that being in the space above the lane is irrelevant, as the rulebook is explicit when that applies, such as the charge arc, as seen here:

    A secondary defender is considered to be in the restricted area when any part
    of either foot is in or above this area.

    The difference in language is quite clear. So effectively one foot outside, and a "shuffle" in which the other foot just barely leaves the court is good enough. Per the letter of the rule, jumping up and down would also be satisfactory...but not sure I've ever seen someone try to be a test case for that, and I'm not sure that jumping up and down would really be effective "camping out" that the rule tries to prevent anyway.
    1200. DDMF.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northwest NC
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Agree with all above but one other thing that drives me crazy is when a player is about to make an easy, open layup and the defender makes a last ditch (and half-hearted) swipe at the ball that makes either the slightest contact that in no way affects the shot or none at all. So many times an “and 1” is given.Yet, in most other driving situations the player has to be hammered to get the “and 1” call.
    This! So many times the ref calls the motion of the defender on these and when the replay is shown he didn't even touch him. What is maddening to me is the fact that defenders do it in the first place. If you know you aren't going to be able to make the play why even take a swipe? Either don't do it or hammer his forearm to make sure he doesn't get the and 1.
    "The future ain't what it used to be."

  18. #18
    Block/charge is the obvious answer.

    Another one that bugs me is over the back. Just because a guy gets a rebound over another guy who is closer to the hoop doesn't mean it's a foul. Most of the time, it's just called rebounding. In fact, I would prefer if this was never called except in cases where the player clearly shoves/pushes/hits arm of player in front of them. Besides that, it's just battling for a rebound.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by hustleplays View Post
    What do you think are the most inconsistently called [frustrating, violence (remotes hurled at TVs, etc.) inducing] fouls in college basketball?

    I could have chosen "most difficult" foul calls, but some might say that certain calls are not that difficult to make -- they just aren't called consistently. Balls and strikes in baseball might come to mind.

    I'm interested in why you think the calls are made inconsistently. Perhaps it is the inherent difficulty, perhaps rule ambiguity, perhaps refs' habits, perhaps a tendency by the refs to make the safe, conventional call.

    Getting the conversation started, my vote for one of the most inconsistently made calls is that made against post defenders when they are called for blocking after appearing to stand still, perfectly straight, arms and hands held high. Bilas almost always finds some minute, aesthetic defect in the statuary pose of such a defender. I'm dubious.

    I'm interested to hear what y'all think.

    Most frustrating, violence against the remote inducing fouls you ask? Why those called against Duke of course...


    ...except when K gets a technical. I like those.

  20. #20
    I agree with a lot of what was already posted, but a couple that irk me that I didn't see mentioned include:


    • No-calls on final plays of a game. I understand that refs are swallowing their whistles in those game-ending attempts at a shot or in the carnage of trying to grab a loose ball on the final rebound, but calling the game the same way in the last 5 seconds as it has been called all game is important. This is probably my most frustrating one. I hate seeing a losing team get absolutely hammered trying to make a game-winning/tying shot and there be no foul. Don't change the application of the rules just because the game is on the line. I've never seen a foul called when a shooter leans in/initiates contact on a 3-pointer in an end-game situation, but I see it called with great regularity in-game. Use the monitor if you need to, wave off the foul and end the game if you need to (if the replay justifies it), but don't just swallow your whistle.
    • Loose ball fouls in general. When a player dives on top of another player to go for a ball, or even over top of them (and as such, restricts their ability to move or go toward the ball), this should be called. I really can't stand the "scrums" that often happen. I thought this was actually a "point of emphasis" for refs two years ago, but haven't seen this called consistently. Especially with the new cylinder rule, I feel like if there is a player ever draped over another player, there should be a whistle.
    • Coaches on the court. I don't know why this bugs me so much, and I have noticed refs warning coaches about this more often, but for some reason it really annoys me when coaches are 5+ feet onto the court yelling directions at their players. I'm actually rather impressed there are less collisions, but I think if you can't communicate with your team from the bench due to crowd noise, excitement, particular game situation, etc, that is something that should be resolved through practice/better communication methods, not just by running over and yelling at them.
    • More techs in end-of-game situations when teams are fouling to extend the game. This was also a point of emphasis last year, I think, and I have seen a few techs called in these situations, but not frequently enough. There are rarely plays on the ball, and I think the ref should have discretion and ability to call those techs, since they're only a "basketball play" in that they are part of a commonly used strategy to extend the game. NBA made some changes in this regard too.

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