MBB: Duke v Miami (Sat, 1/4, 8:00 pm, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[DavidBenAkiva]

Disagree with what? I simply said there is such a thing as a regular season championship. Do you disagree with that?

The idea that you can "win" the regular season is, in my opinion, hogwash. Finishing the with best record in the regular season is nice and all, but it is not a championship. Champions win tournaments. Every sport has a tournament, even college football now. That is how you determine a champion.

I suppose that it meant something when there were balanced schedules. But in the era of unbalanced schedules where a team's opponents matter as much as their abilities, it holds no water with me. Now the conference or NCAA tournament may not crown the best team, but it is definitive. There is no arguing who won the tournament. And the champions are the ones that won the tournament. This is how sports has always been and I don't agree with the idea that you "win" anything by finishing the regular season with the best record. All it does is help you decide who has the best draw in the tournaments.

EDIT: I received a comment to "give it up, dude." As if that stopped anyone here. The message even stated that the ACC recognizes the regular season title. It does not. This should be well known by now. And I'll be happy when Duke wins so many conference and National titles that they run out of room for the "regular season" banners. Take them down, put them in the closets of Cameron, and celebrate the tournaments. On this hill, I will die.

[uh_no]

Finishing the with best record in the regular season is nice and all, but it is not a championship.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...ll-banners.jpg

give it up, man. Whether you put any weight in it or not is irrelevant.

[Music man55]

Those two Canes guards, Lykes and Vasilijevic, are the main players that concern me about this game. If the little whirling dervish Lykes is allowed to penetrate and Vasilijevic gets hot from 3 pt. land, they could give us trouble. Hopefully, we contain those two and pressure everyone else to beat us. Coral Gables will be rocking I am sure for an upset, but I think our boys will get it done. Go Duke!

[DavidBenAkiva]

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...ll-banners.jpg

give it up, man. Whether you put any weight in it or not is irrelevant.

Imagine taking the position that someone shouldn't have an opinion on a fan forum. I honestly don't care that 5 people feel like they have to tell my opinion is wrong. It is not, and neither is yours.

[uh_no]

Imagine taking the position that someone shouldn't have an opinion on a fan forum. I honestly don't care that 5 people feel like they have to tell my opinion is wrong. It is not, and neither is yours.

It's not your opinion i'm concerned with, but your distributing fake facts as truth.

There is a trophy in recognition of the ACC regular season champion. If it is your opinion that such a trophy does not exist and that perhaps the photo of said trophies at JPJ is photoshopped, then by all means, believe what you want.

[DavidBenAkiva]

It's not your opinion i'm concerned with, but your distributing fake facts as truth.

There is a trophy in recognition of the ACC regular season champion. If it is your opinion that such a trophy does not exist and that perhaps the photo of said trophies at JPJ is photoshopped, then by all means, believe what you want.

They are not fake facts, my dude.

"Since July 1, 1961, the ACC's bylaws have included the phrase "and the winner shall be the conference champion" in referring to the tournament, meaning that the conference tournament winner is the only champion of the ACC. The ACC is unique in college basketball in that it does not recognize a regular season champion in any way, although it does permit the regular season winner to hang a banner if it wishes, so long as the banner makes it clear that the title is not official.[1]"

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACC_Me...all_Tournament

I have no idea why UVA received a trophy for a regular season title. Perhaps they commissioned the ACC to manufacture it?

[CDu]

They are not fake facts, my dude.

"Since July 1, 1961, the ACC's bylaws have included the phrase "and the winner shall be the conference champion" in referring to the tournament, meaning that the conference tournament winner is the only champion of the ACC. The ACC is unique in college basketball in that it does not recognize a regular season champion in any way, although it does permit the regular season winner to hang a banner if it wishes, so long as the banner makes it clear that the title is not official.[1]"

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACC_Me...all_Tournament

I have no idea why UVA received a trophy for a regular season title. Perhaps they commissioned the ACC to manufacture it?

DBA, you probably should back off on this one. The ACC has, since 1990, allowed recognition of a regular season champion. Teams hang banners for it. They give out trophies for it. It exists. To disagree with that, is, well, silly and wrong. That's what uh no is saying.

Yes, the OFFICIAL ACC champion is the tournament champion. Nobody is disputing that. But that doesn't mean that an ACC regular season championship doesn't exist. It does. The two facts are not mutually exclusive.

[uh_no]

They are not fake facts, my dude.

"Since July 1, 1961, the ACC's bylaws have included the phrase "and the winner shall be the conference champion" in referring to the tournament, meaning that the conference tournament winner is the only champion of the ACC. The ACC is unique in college basketball in that it does not recognize a regular season champion in any way, although it does permit the regular season winner to hang a banner if it wishes, so long as the banner makes it clear that the title is not official.[1]"

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACC_Me...all_Tournament

I have no idea why UVA received a trophy for a regular season title. Perhaps they commissioned the ACC to manufacture it?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sit...ACC_Manual.pdf

Page 111

Section XXIII-7. Basketball - Men’s.
Awards authorized and presented by the Conference for Men’s Basketball are as follows: (Revised: 10/2005, 10/2007)
...
1 Regular-Season Championship Trophy

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is fruitful conversation.

I'd prefer to discuss the implications of an 8pm tip off on a Saturday.

[uh_no]

This is fruitful conversation.

I'd prefer to discuss the implications of an 8pm tip off on a Saturday.

I'm looking forward to how our defense fares against easily the best offense we've seen since MSU. The team was obviously superb on tuesday, and hope that we can keep the ball rolling in that regard. Also hope to keep the 3pt train moving. God do i wish we had had just one go-to guy from the behind the arc last year to open things up (who wasn't also the guy who we needed to destroy everyone in the paint).

[CDu]

I'm looking forward to how our defense fares against easily the best offense we've seen since MSU. The team was obviously superb on tuesday, and hope that we can keep the ball rolling in that regard. Also hope to keep the 3pt train moving. God do i wish we had had just one go-to guy from the behind the arc last year to open things up (who wasn't also the guy who we needed to destroy everyone in the paint).

For what it's worth, Miami is only a bit better offensively than Georgetown, and not as good as Kansas. So while it's true that they are easily the best offensive we've faced since MSU, it's not like we have faced only bad offenses this season. Our defense has looked good against almost everyone we've faced (SFA being the obvious exception).

I feel pretty good about our chances against Miami. Tre Jones did a great job on Lykes last year, and I think we have better perimeter defensive depth around him this year (though we are weaker in post defense with Carey and Hurt in place of Zion and Bolden). I think Stanley and Moore are both better defenders than Barrett, and in combination they are better defensively than Barrett/Reddish. And I think Goldwire and O'Connell are better defensively now than they were last year.

Now, I don't expect that we will hold Lykes to another 1-15 showing, especially with this game in Coral Gables rather than Durham. But I think we'll do well enough on Lykes that it will make the difference. T-Rank has us as a 7pt favorite. I'm a tad more confident and think it will be more of an 8-10 point win for us. Miami's defense is just sooooooooooooo bad that I think they'll have trouble scoring enough to win.

[UrinalCake]

Is this game considered a homecoming of sorts for Vernon Carey? I know his dad played for the Hurricanes and the Dolphins, but can’t remember if his family is actually from the area.

[CDu]

Is this game considered a homecoming of sorts for Vernon Carey? I know his dad played for the Hurricanes and the Dolphins, but can’t remember if his family is actually from the area.

Yes, Carey grew up near Miami (not in Miami, but not that far away). He went to high school in Fort Lauderdale.

[ChillinDuke]

Is this game considered a homecoming of sorts for Vernon Carey? I know his dad played for the Hurricanes and the Dolphins, but can’t remember if his family is actually from the area.

In short, yes.

Vernon is from Southwest Ranches, FL, which is ~35 mins (tricked you) northwest of Miami/Coral Gables.

- Chillin

[sagegrouse]

Imagine taking the position that someone shouldn't have an opinion on a fan forum. I honestly don't care that 5 people feel like they have to tell my opinion is wrong. It is not, and neither is yours.

Yeah, but. Yeah, but. You said a championship is not a championship, when clearly they are labeled as such -- ACC regular season hoops, MLB and NFL divisions etc. There is a difference between an opinion and gas-lighting -- although I certainly don't hold your strong views against you personally.

[killerleft]

If anyone wants to celebrate regular-season ACC titles, I can see nothing wrong with that. Well, except for the unbalanced schedules that can handicap some teams right from the start, and give others an easier road to win it. Some years, even that doesn't figure into it, because the team with the best record has the toughest road, I suppose.

But, I'm with DavidBenAkiva. The regular season title is just a glorified way to say the winner will have the number one seed in the tournament. As pointed out in the Wiki entry on the ACC Tournament, only the tournament winner is the ACC Basketball Champion. That winner, as has always been the case since the ACC was founded, gets the automatic bye into the NCAA tournament as a result. That bye is the same one that all major conferences get. I do not know if all conferences award the bye for the NCAAs to tournament winners, but certainly the majority do.

No death by cutlery is needed.

And, by the way, Go Duke. Beat the 'Canes, and take both titles!

[Natty_B]

For what it's worth, Miami is only a bit better offensively than Georgetown, and not as good as Kansas. So while it's true that they are easily the best offensive we've faced since MSU, it's not like we have faced only bad offenses this season. Our defense has looked good against almost everyone we've faced (SFA being the obvious exception).

I feel pretty good about our chances against Miami. Tre Jones did a great job on Lykes last year, and I think we have better perimeter defensive depth around him this year (though we are weaker in post defense with Carey and Hurt in place of Zion and Bolden). I think Stanley and Moore are both better defenders than Barrett, and in combination they are better defensively than Barrett/Reddish. And I think Goldwire and O'Connell are better defensively now than they were last year.

Now, I don't expect that we will hold Lykes to another 1-15 showing, especially with this game in Coral Gables rather than Durham. But I think we'll do well enough on Lykes that it will make the difference. T-Rank has us as a 7pt favorite. I'm a tad more confident and think it will be more of an 8-10 point win for us. Miami's defense is just sooooooooooooo bad that I think they'll have trouble scoring enough to win.

Jones really shut down Lykes last year and I expect something similar this time around. Zion missed the Miami game last year. Shout out to the Vigil!!

[ndkjr70]

If anyone wants to celebrate regular-season ACC titles, I can see nothing wrong with that. Well, except for the unbalanced schedules that can handicap some teams right from the start, and give others an easier road to win it. Some years, even that doesn't figure into it, because the team with the best record has the toughest road, I suppose.

But, I'm with DavidBenAkiva. The regular season title is just a glorified way to say the winner will have the number one seed in the tournament. As pointed out in the Wiki entry on the ACC Tournament, only the tournament winner is the ACC Basketball Champion. That winner, as has always been the case since the ACC was founded, gets the automatic bye into the NCAA tournament as a result. That bye is the same one that all major conferences get. I do not know if all conferences award the bye for the NCAAs to tournament winners, but certainly the majority do.

No death by cutlery is needed.

And, by the way, Go Duke. Beat the 'Canes, and take both titles!

Until we start adding asterisks for "National Champions but they had a way easier bracket so it's not a perfect system", I'll still happily acknowledge ACC Regular Season champions -- just like I'll recognize NBA teams for hanging division title banners. It's not "just" for seeding. It's something many schools, including Duke, celebrate.

[CDu]

Until we start adding asterisks for "National Champions but they had a way easier bracket so it's not a perfect system", I'll still happily acknowledge ACC Regular Season champions -- just like I'll recognize NBA teams for hanging division title banners. It's not "just" for seeding. It's something many schools, including Duke, celebrate.

Yeah, for all the talk about unbalanced schedules, no regular season schedule is as unbalanced as the ACC tournament. So while it is unequivocally true that the official champ is the ACC tournament winner, it seems silly to denigrate the ACC regular season champ on the grounds of an unbalanced schedule.

As for the existence of an ACC regular season championship, that should be about as unequivocal as the fact that the official ACC champ is the ACC tournament champ. The existence of banners for regular season championships and the provision of ACC regular season champion trophies by the ACC since at least 2007 (hat tip to uh no on this - it is also in the 2018-19 ACC manual as well), it is unequivocally true that the ACC regular season championship is a real thing. Whether or not one cares about it is entirely up to them. But it exists, and is indeed an achievement recognized by the ACC.

[MChambers]

Yeah, for all the talk about unbalanced schedules, no regular season schedule is as unbalanced as the ACC tournament. So while it is unequivocally true that the official champ is the ACC tournament winner, it seems silly to denigrate the ACC regular season champ on the grounds of an unbalanced schedule.

As for the existence of an ACC regular season championship, that should be about as unequivocal as the fact that the official ACC champ is the ACC tournament champ. The existence of banners for regular season championships and the provision of ACC regular season champion trophies by the ACC since at least 2007 (hat tip to uh no on this - it is also in the 2018-19 ACC manual as well), it is unequivocally true that the ACC regular season championship is a real thing. Whether or not one cares about it is entirely up to them. But it exists, and is indeed an achievement recognized by the ACC.

Aren't you the guy who wrote at 10:31 a.m. that the point had been sufficiently made? :-)